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I am looking for some serious opinions on a long range lightweight rifle. I am looking at (in the next few years) making a trip for Marco polo, and everyone I have talked to said " expect 500 yard shots",

I have looked at the various lightweight guys ( bansners, rifles inc etc), BUT I am torn on what calibre to get,

I have a 300 weatherby, and 300 wsm, and I like them both. I am just not sure what is better for knock down power on high altitude sheep, or if something in the 7mm range might be better?

any thoughts?

Hard to beat the 300WM for flat shooting and Knockdown IMHO. I killed a deer at 500+ yards this year with a 7mm-08 Kimber 84m classic at 6Lbs. I dont go hunting expecting 500 shots either. But if I did, I wouldnt want anything too light. For a trip of a lifetime where I was expecting long shots I'd want custom and synthetic in 300WSM 300WM, 7MM WM, 7MM STW. The .30's are gonna hit harder -thats just fact.But frankly, I'd be more worried about my ability than the rifle's. I can tell you that my 7mm-08 at 500 yards didnt have much knockdown power - but it worked -one shot. The deer just stood there thinking about it for a few seconds, then rolled down the hill. For bang-floppers, go .30 cal-mag!!!!

Boy, I think you are going to be hard put to find anybody with much hard information on Marco Polo guns. But there was a magnificent set of posts and photos from somebody who went to one of the 'stans to hunt the (Kysgikastan or Turkwhosistan or something I couldn't spell even if I could remember it.) Use the search feature to go through the archives within the past 15 months.

But if you say LR lightweight, I think Kimber in 300 WSM or a NULA in most any caliber you think best.

Just to help out, I found those threads:
Kyrg Ibex Story

Kyrgyzstan Ibex

Thanks for all the help guys, I will check out those old stories. Any opinions on calibre is surely appreciated,

thanks

one caliber-30/378 weatherby for those long shots

NULA IN 284!

woofer

I load for a guy who is a long range hunter. Both of his guns are 7STW's and I've seen him knock down an elk with one shot at 720 yards with a 160g Nosler Accubond. My friend's guns are both 26" barrels, one a plain old Remington 700 and the other an RS Precision (?).

Only question I would have was whether to consider a 500 yards shot "long range". I'm not a long range hunter but the guns I use are lightweight mountain guns under 8 lbs and I'm comfortable with all of them to 500 yards and a bit beyond, 580 yards to the furthest elk I've dropped with one shot. They're all 338's in WSM, Jamison and Win Mag. I'd think that 300 WSM would be great in a rifle around 7-8 lbs and a 180g slug.

First check out my Gunsmiths website, www.htcustoms.com There is some info from some guys who are major sheep hunters and I think some with Marco Polo's are on there.. Anyways.. They chose the .340Wby.. So did I.. They chose to go with a custom .340Wby with a Swarovski 4-12x50 scope with the TDS reticle. I'd say its the best of the best for the light way to go.. Mine weighs 7lbs scoped and ready to hunt.. The way Ritchie builds them its easy to see how with practice 600-700 yd shots are very possible.

So thats my two cents. Good luck

Thanks Boman, I have checked out that site in the past, and I agree that he has many succesful Asian hunting clients.He makes great looking rifles. I have considered the 4x12x50 Swarovski, but have not used one personally, do you have any experience with them?

I'm kinda in the same boat. I was looking for a "sheep/mountain" rifle and ended up with Sako Finnlight in .300wsm. The rifle weighs 6.5 lbs, I'm putting a Swaro 4x12 w TDS reticle, should put the total weight at 7.5 lbs with ammo. The rifle is supposed to be able to shoot 5 shots in an inch @ 100yds. I have got mine to shoot 1.25 with Fed Barnes X 180 gr. I'm going to try some different ammo, and hopefully get it under an inch. After my sheep hunt in AK, I came home looking for a "light" rifle, hopefully I've found it. Check out the Sako in .300 wsm, it might be what you're looking for.

I have not been on a Marco Polo hunt, but I duck hunt with a guy and his son that went on one about 2 years ago. He was shooting a 300 WM and his son was shooting a 300 Jerrett.
Boy do they have one heck of a story to tell about that hunt. Both of them got one, but the trip was something else.

There is one additional consideration in choosing a gun for this trip. This is one region in the world where perhaps coming home without your gun is higher than most. That might argue against the $3-5K custom job.

Maxx,

Yeah I have experience with that scope. I had 2 at one time now down to 1. (I'm changing that rifle up a bit so I sold that scope) Anyways- That scope is an excellent scope. Its very lightweight and is very high quality. For big game hunting on a lightweight rifle I don't think there is a better scope. Once you shoot your rifle at the extended ranges and find out exactly where your ammo hits you can tape that info to your stock or scope and use the correct hash mark to hit at those ranges. Its very simple once you shoot with it.

Let me know if that helps. Also, another thing about that gunsmith, he loves to talk about guns and hunting so feel free to give him a call and tell him what your thinking.. He'll tell you exactly what he thinks good or bad. He's been a guide for many years and a gunsmith for more so he know's his stuff.

Let me know if you have any other questions. take care

I am Bobski on this one, I would think that there is a faair number of rifles that will fit the bill for this one.

IMO 500 yds is not that far.

I would get a cal you can handle and can shoot a lot and I would get 1K rounds thru it each year b4 you went.

For glass I would opt for a Leupold with Premier dots in it, but a Swaro TDS would do well also. And to be totally honest if you're only worried about shooting to 500 or 600 then the Burris 3-9 Ballistic Plex would do some amazing things for you and at and amazing small cost. That scope is fairly inexpensive, it works and it is tough. With the experiences I've got with this scope I would not be afraid to take it on a high dollar hunt.

For cals, I would go anything between a 270 the big 7's and or the smaller mag 30's (300 Roy and smaller). I would not want anything to do with an flyweight in one of the big 30's. And I personally want nothing to do with a brake on the rifle.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Mark D

One other excellent scope choice would be the Swaro 3-10 with the sort of hidden target knobs under the scope caps.

JFSAG, what about basing the choice more on a second-worse case scenario in that the ammo gets lost?

What, if any, long-range type ammo could be found WAY out there? .300H&H, maybe?

I agree about not taking a high dollar custom unless you can stand the loss,if it happens. Probably the one single caliber most used is .300 Wthby. Not the only caliber that will work, but in that ballpark. I kinda like the rationale of a .340,but not necessary. The way they do things, if you get any bullet in him you probably won't lose him. Don't worry about ounces, you'll be hunting with a committee if you have a problem. Best thing about .300 Wthby is best chance to borrow or lend ammo if needed. Good luck.

P.S.If you go with a partner try to take the same caliber and loads. Not the place for diversity if it can be avoided.

Boman,
A 340wby in a 7lb gun. Ouch.
At 500 yards I would need to use the range finder and dial the scope. The wind would be my biggest concern. Is the 340wby that much better than the 300wsm? Im really not familiar with the wbys. But one should practice a lot what one hunts with. 340wby might not get much practice. Maybe Im just soft.
maestro

Are you talking about Spook Spann. That is a heck of a story.
Here is the link to the Field & Stream Story.

Pmc

Maestro,

You know actually the recoil on that .340wby isn't that bad. Its got a muzzle break on it so its not bad at all. To answer your questions: Yes a rangefinder is ABSOLUTELY necessary for any thing over 200yds..I always have mine with me. Wind is a concern for me out at 500yds plus. The big 225gr .338 bullets don't get pushed around by the wind unless its a very stiff wind which if thats the case I shorten my shots or don't shoot. As far the .340 being better than the .300wsm, heck I don't know. It does provide more downrange energy by virtue of the weight of the bullet and velocity, if that means anything to you.. As far as shooting the rifle.. I shoot it quite a bit so I'm very comfortable with the rifle. I practice from 20yds to 700 right now. As I get better and more accomplished I can extend that but for now thats plenty far for me. To me the rifle recoils about like a .270 so I can shoot it all day without ill effects.

Boman,

I friend left his .300 Weatherby at my house. I ask and got permission to rebarrel it to .340. I made a brake to tame the recoil. He shot it a couple days ago. In fact he probably shot more than a box of shell. There was one empty box and maybe only three or four in the other box. He said the recoil was way less than before.

Spent a great deal of time in that part of the world doing what you are about to. Almost bought myself a lease from the Chinese Govt. to do it professionally. The problem is 3/4 clients can't hang. The altitude and cold are too much for most. The kickbacks and corruption were too much for me. DO NOT TAKE A RIFLE THAT YOU EXPECT TO RETUN WITH!!! You are most likely not going to come home with it. Take a tuned 300 WSM or 7MM nothing bigger nothing smaller. Do not try to carry a 6 pound gun. You need to be steady when your heart is beating out of your chest. Take a cheap camera and take lots of shots. Make sure your guide is for real or you losing your rifle will be the least of your worries. Get good with a range finder and I would put the money in a scope that is crash proof. Look at Nightforce's new 2.5 x 10 awsome for your needs. Make sure your life insurance is paid up and tell everyone you love that you love 'em and hope for the best. Chances are you might make it home with the greatest trophy on earth.

Lightweight and long range often don't go together. My ex bussiness pardner usses a 7mm STW. He has hunted all over the world and taken all NA sheep. He has no use for lightweight rifles and last year carried that 10lb rifle and took a ibex on his 68th birthday. He believes more in physical fitness than lt. weight rifles. And he can shoot!
I built built up a .270 Wby. , lightened and trued 700 LH., Hart #1bbl, Bansner stock, and compact 3X9 Leupie dotted by premier. It is accurate and I feel confident out to 550 (where it is dotted to) under the RIGHT CONDITIONS. I have taken elk, deer , sheep, moose, black bear, etc. and never found it lacking using 130 partitions and x bullets. The moose was taken at a ranged 363 yards, and my outfitter had concerns about the .270 but it put him down quickly. Mountain goats are pretty tough and have put two of them down at fairly long rnage w/o problems. Ditto for "bullet proof elk" Pretty good moose and it was on the cover on Pelly lake outfitters brochure for a few years. Mule deer wrote a article on the .270 Wby. as one of the super flat shooting rifles that could made light enoug to managed w/o a brake and still be a very effective LR rifle. That was my inspiration for building that rifle and he was right! I also had a NULA .300 win mag. that was 6.25 lbs all up. NULA rifles are excellent and I used this rifle to take a grizzly, but I never really got comfortable with it. It was and is a hard rifle for me to hit with. It will be rebarreled to .257 Roy and that will add a little weight and it may work better. A NULA in standard calibers such as .270, 284, or 280 would be pretty good. My .270 mag is just shy of 7lbs and seems about perfect as to balance. Can send you pictures if you like. Have fun.

Lefty

Boman and Ringman,
You guys got me thinking now.
maestro

Guys I am one of the world's formost nutcases for a 340, I love the round. I've used it a ton, I've shot it a ton (am on my 4th tube).

I am not a fan of the brakes on rifles, and would never have another rifle with one.

I mean guys, we're talking sheep here not big animals. We're talking 500 yd max, not big range.

A 340 as much as I love it is of no need in this situation.

I can't imagine for the life of me taking and building a 7 lb 340 putting a brake on it and then going hunting.

Just my 2 cents worth but I would go something a lot smaller and something a lot easier to handle and without a brake.

Mark D

Oh yeah and I most likely would not be 4 builiding a light lil rifle either. As much as the idea intrigues me I would not put that much out for a hunt and then hang the balance of the hunt on a flyweight rifle.

My first 340 was on a 700 with a 4.5 weight Schneider on it and a 3-10 Leo in Conetrols and a Brown stock. This rifle came in ready to rock at 8.25 lbs.

Now, if a fella was determined to carry a 340 (and I do love the round) this is the way I would go.

And leave the sissy brake on the smiths bench.

Mark D

How about an Allen extreme sporter in 7mm Allen mag.? a 338 lapua necked down and AI'd will get 3700 fps with a 160 gr accubond. or for real LR work (beyond 1K) a 200 gr wildcat ULD @ 3200 fps Here is a pic of it between a 7 rem and 7 rum.
RR

I'm inclined to go for a non magnum for that job. And not too little in the weight department. I've never hunted or killed a Marco Polo Sheep. But I have spent a fair amount of time in the 10,000-12,000 ft. range. I've killed say a dozen critters in the 500 yd ranges.
What has worked for me, has been stuff in the '06 class with a good bullet like the Nolsler Partition. Even the 7X57 will work out there with that bullet. Been there, done it. I mean, where is he going to go if he doesn't drop right away ? Open country, right ? Animals don't drop just because the bullet that hits them is going 200-400 fps. faster when it hits them. But, if you hit them right, they at least don't go far.
Much easier to hit something with standard rounds than with the harder kicking magnums. That's why the .308 is so popular as a long range round.
Lightweight is also really nice to have when you are way up there. Less strain on the body just getting around. But, when the moment of truth arrives, that weight needs to help you settle down to make the shot. However, you can select light rifles and accessories that help. A rifle that has it's balance point at the reciever ring and not the center of the action helps. A good shooting sling is also a huge aid. They will shrink your groups about 30%.
I'd go for a good '06 or a .270 with say a 6X glass w/ an elevation turret, a good shooting sling, and good ammo like the federal Nosler Partiton loads. E

NULA in 284............

woofer

If I absolutely HAD to have a magnum for whatever motivation I'd do a 7mm RM with 24" tube and try to get it "all up" no more than 8.5 lbs... however, Eremicus's reccomendation makes the most sense to me... a nice, light 270 or 30-06.

Since the proviso has been stated, and rather forcefully, that this is an area that you might not come back from the hunt with the rifle, I'd go with a .270, .30-06, 7RM, or .300WM. Likely in a Rem. 700 bone-stock barreled action (well, maybe having the action trued and lugs lapped... and the trigger worked a tad...).

Stocked in something light, but ugly and functional. And, the more scratched, battered, and paint covered from use, the better.

Scope it with something dead reliable but rather unfancy in appearance (Sightron 6x42 SII; Leupold 6x42 FX-III, matte, etc.).

Functional? Absolutely. Up to the task? As long as the shooter is. Will if break your heart (or your bank account) if it goes over a ledge or into the truck of some corrupt local bureaucrat after the shot is made? Probably not.

And, if she makes it back in one piece, restock the rifle in something gorgeous (Claro walnut? XXX-grade?). As a reward... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Under these circumstances, you're already spending a fortune for the hunt. But if you're concerned about the rifle coming back, the Savage is 6.5 lbs, and $400 with the plastic stock and accutrigger for street prices. In 270, or one of the WSM rounds, with a decelerator and a good scope, you'd lack very little.

Yes, I know, they're a little homely. But they work.

Or perhaps a NULA in 6.5x284...

I think you've hit on a great idea if losing the rifle is a concern.

A Remington Titanium would also be an option in a light accurate gun for a reasonable price in either 270 Win. or 7mmSAUM if you need more power.

2Seventy

Given all the parameters, I sure like the Savage in 300 Win Mag with accutrigger topped with a Burris FFII Ballistic Plex. Accurate gun, good trigger, pretty light, tough, functional scope and under $600.00 for the package. If you know the size of your target, you also have a pretty good back-up range finder with a little practice just in case your range finder goes belly up or sprouts wings.

DJ

Weatherby UL in 270 winny a classic sheep cartridge w a Leupy lightweight scope your talking under 7 lbs..As Mark D said were talking sheep here. I would be a little worried though about dimecovers statement about not returning home with my rifle <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

You could also be a real difficult SOB by removing the head from the bolt, and storing it in your other luggage. If they steal it on the way back, they haven't gotten much.

Oh... you is a sneaky bastid... I like it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I gotta remember that one... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey, Nimrod, I'm in the same profession you are. If you aren't a little crafty, you won't get as much done.

Sounds like a great hunt. One that I have to contour my rifle for the thieves. I guess all hunts have their risks, but I think Ill save my money and go somewhere a tourist is valued a bit more. Just my $.02.

I think your already set. I would spend more time concentrating on getting into excellent physical condition rather than worrying to much about carrying a firearm thats a pound or so lighter. And of course you may already be in such condition, so therefore toting a 30 mag in either WSM or Wby would not present much of a problem. A 165 grain Barnes XLC BT at 3350 fps out of the Wby will provide all the ranging capability you will need. It will also wack that sheep cleanly dead by yielding 2,500 ft-lbs at 400 yards and 2,200 ft-lbs at 500 yards.

Good luck with the hunt.