Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 9mm +P and +P+ why?

Well, I'd have to say that is a pretty good bit of logic.

I tend to agree the 9mm needs all the help it can get and more velocity certain ain't going to hurt

Back in the day... before bullet development, velocity was KING.
The key to getting any performance from a slug.

Now? Look at all the research Hornady did to meet the FBI penetration standards. The Critical Duty 9mm meets and excedes all FBI tests. At "standard" velocities and through all substrates, steel, drywall, plywood , clothing.

Back in the 60's all we had were lead and hardball jacketed slugs. and a few HP's.

Today, we are blessed by technology!

More velocity creates more hydraulic pressure and that is a good thing

I carry Speer Gold Dot 124 gr. +P in my 9mm for the sole purpose that my gun shoots them very accurately and I am of the school of thought that rounds placed accurately on target beats rounds of slower or faster pace not hitting the target at all. My general practice with the gun is double tap to the center of the chest and one to the head. If I accurately execute this means of hitting the target I feel most certain the goal of stopping said perpetrator will have occurred or that I will stand a much higher percentage chance of being able to survive the altercation.

I have yet to see where a +P makes any sort of a larger wound. The advantages of the +P are not for terminal performance in living tissue, but barrier penetration. Your typical +P 9mm will expand a tiny bit more, and penetrate a tiny bit less. As for actual tissue destroyed, it�s a wash. No one is ever going to notice that your bullet had an extra 50fps.

The disadvantages are that to get that additional 50fps, you have quite a noticeable increase in recoil, and muzzle blast; making your 9mm feel much more like a .40. To me, one of the great appeals of the 9mm is that it�s a joy to shoot, recoil is very low and muzzle blast isn�t offensive.

With .38 Special, the difference you get is quite noticeable and typically does end up creating larger, deeper wounds. But you don�t get a larger, deeper wound with a 9mm in a +P, you just get more recoil and muzzle blast. That�s why I don�t understand the appeal.

So I take it you are not a fan of the 357 Sig?

Of course, if you marginalize every advantage, and magnify any disadvantage, you will always have a good argument.

Last time I clocked Gold Dot +Ps I was getting 75-100 fps more than WWB. And it didn't really feel notably different recoil-wise to me, at least to the extent of affecting my aim.

Why use a 9mm +p when you can use a .45acp?

Exactly!!!!!!!

Fan? Not so much, but I have absolutely nothing against it. When bullets are properly constructed to match the velocity of the .357 Sig, rather than just pushing a standard 9mm bullet faster, then it can actually create a larger, deeper wound than say a 9mm or 9mm +P. In such a case, you actually get a benefit from the increased recoil and muzzle blast.

50fps is typically for most +P 9mm�s and 100 fps for some +P+. If you don�t notice any difference in recoil or muzzle blast, then you probably don�t see a difference. My point is that it doesn�t actually create a larger wound.

Ding, ding, ding, ding... We have a winner!!

That�s kind my point. When your 9mm starts to whip around like a .40, yet the actual wound is really no different; why not just get a .40 or .45 ACP?

I�m not dogging on the 9mm, I happen to be a big fan, just not a fan of +P in 9mm.

I think people see +P and just assume it �hits harder� or creates a bigger wound, when in reality it typically doesn�t. But it certainly does get you better barrier penetration, but if you were to compare a 9mm 124 grain +P+ to a standard pressure 147 grain, you�ll get greater penetration with the standard pressure 147.

So specifically in 9mm, I just don�t think +P really has anything to offer other than recoil and muzzle blast. But that wicked recoil and muzzle blast seems to be convincing people they�re really getting something.

Well, I'm willing to go out on a limb and guess that it doesn't create a smaller wound either. But if you're shooting at something a little farther away, or your barrel is shorter than the test barrel, having a few extra fps available wouldn't be a bad thing.

Is this where the 8 v/s 17 argument steps in?

That argument isn't related to +P vs. non +P; that's a 9 vs. 40 vs. 45 thing.

That's splitting a pretty fine hair.

OK, so let's assume this... If your gun digest and accurately whirls a +P and you put two to the chest and one to the head - will the perp know it was a 9mm or will he be proud it wasn't a 45? More closely related to the thread subject, will the perp know if it was a standard, +P or +P+? Putting your payload accurately on target is the game changer. If when using a bonded bullet I choose the +P it's b/c when I hit a perp in the chest twice I want the bullet to rapidly expand, penetrate roughly 8 to 12", pancake out and dump 100% of the energy into the target. As for the harder, more boney head shot, mere penetration of the skeletal structure and entrance into the brain will suffice well enough. For this, I like the accuracy I get from the +P loading and the grain weight matched with caliber/speed gives me the results I'm looking for in penetration, expansion and energy dump. I may can drive a 6 cylinder to town and get groceries but I like the 8 cylinder better b/c well, it's just my cup of tea.

Seem's to me it's the same hair that's making you weep over the uncontrollable +P recoil and the 6 foot flame coming out of the barrel.

But like I said, marginalize the benefits, magnify any potential drawbacks (neither of which you can directly quantify, but have kindly decided for us just how much they matter) and you're always right.

If +P increases the user's confidence, I say that's a good thing. Even if the wounds are same/same.

I like 147s at 1100 fps from my G17. Would 980 fps work? I suppose it would, but the extra speed just makes me feel better. In the G17 I can't see where it is at all difficult to shoot, maybe it could be an issue in some of the smaller 9mm pistols.

I have 40 and 45 options too.