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#7264149 - 01/03/13 New addition on the way...
tex_n_cal Offline
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Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 17055
Loc: Back in Texas, for good!
...I just bought a original High Wall in .45-90. Don't have it yet, but it is said to be circa 1900, and from the pictures is a thin side saddle ring carbine. Most of the finish is gone, but the wood is solid, and the bore and mechanicals are said to be excellent. I felt the price was reasonable, less than I had seen for other originals with excellent bores.

Between the relatively light weight and barrel sights, I see it as a hunting rifle for fairly close range work, and probably shooting nothing bigger than a boar, or Nilgai. I'm wondering what bullet/load combos are likely to be good in it. I'm thinking one of the 405 gr grease groove, flat point bullets (intended for lever actions) as a short-range hunting bullet.

Suggestions are appreciated smile
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#7264327 - 01/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: tex_n_cal]
Kurt71 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 229
A Lyman 457-193 is hard to beat. It will drop out at about 405 gr or the 457-643 if you can find the old Ideal mould. That bullet drops out at about 400 to .410 gr but it is a fine bullet for shooting "dirty" carries plenty lube and will work fine in the 2.4 case seated deep for fast load and shoot used for a hunting situation with black powder.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partdetail.aspx/239/1/lyman-457-643
Kurt


Edited by Kurt71 (01/04/13)

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#7264457 - 01/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: Kurt71]
BrentD Offline
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Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 11730
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
I'd be interested to know what the twist rate on that Winchester comes out to be. 405s might be a good as I would not be surprised if this is a fairly slow twist barrel for something more like an express cartridge
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#7264951 - 01/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: BrentD]
Kurt71 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 229
It would be interesting what the 85 has for a twist.

If the original 85 has the 1/32 twist the .45-90 86 had then the 405 grain would be marginal. They used the 300 to 350 gr.
I used the 457-643 bullet in my 86 but I think it had the nickel steel barrel with a 1/22 twist.

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#7265094 - 01/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: Kurt71]
303mike Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 633
It sounds like #457191 at about 300 grains would be right at home. Or even #457122, the 330 grain hollow point.

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#7265367 - 01/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: tex_n_cal]
1minute Offline
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Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 16708
Loc: Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA
Do show off some photos when it arrives. Envious here,
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#7265487 - 01/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: 1minute]
tex_n_cal Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 17055
Loc: Back in Texas, for good!
here it is...just bought today so only the auction photos:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=323974669
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#7265534 - 01/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: tex_n_cal]
Ranch13 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 3930
Loc: wyoming
If it's all original, you'll likely be seating the 300 gr bullet to an overal length of 2.6.
There is some data in an old Ideal reloading manual I have for 405 gr bullets, but with the 1-32 twist common in those rifles whether or not that 405 gr bullet will stabilize is anybodies guess.
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#7265747 - 01/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: Ranch13]
sharpsguy Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1222
I doubt if the 405 grain bullet will give good accuracy if the twist is 1-32. The 300 and 330 hollow point bullets will shoot in that twist and will give really great results on game. If for some reason the rifle has a 1-20 twist, it will definitely shoot the 400 to 420 grain bullets. Those are critter getters too.

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#7266203 - 01/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: sharpsguy]
tex_n_cal Offline
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Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 17055
Loc: Back in Texas, for good!
Many thanks for the comments; think I'll order both some 405's and 300's. If the big ones won't stabilize in it, I could always use them in a Shiloh - or a .45-70, for that matter.
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#7269946 - 01/05/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: tex_n_cal]
crossfireoops Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 47030
Loc: Southeastern AZ
WELL DONE, Sir !

Going by the caliber stamp, I doubt that's an original factory barrel. I think you've got a nice OLD "Custom" there.

Curious about the screw in the receiver bridge, too. can't really say I've seen that before.

Best of luck with a neat new thumper, regardless!

GTC
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#7270586 - 01/05/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: crossfireoops]
EvilTwin Offline
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Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 18509
Loc: Upstate NY
It has been a matter of great curiousity for me as to why Winchester didn't use a different twist in the 1885 High Wall vs. the 1886 levergun OTHER THAN the expense of two sets of tooling. The 45/90 had a rather good rep as both a fine LR comp. cartridge AND a big critter killer using heavy slugs.
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#7270589 - 01/05/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: EvilTwin]
BrentD Offline
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Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 11730
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
Simply because the fashion of the day - like now - was speed. Speed was (and is) more important than any other variable selling a rifle or a cartridge.
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#7270754 - 01/05/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: EvilTwin]
Ranch13 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 3930
Loc: wyoming
Originally Posted By: EvilTwin
It has been a matter of great curiousity for me as to why Winchester didn't use a different twist in the 1885 High Wall vs. the 1886 levergun OTHER THAN the expense of two sets of tooling. The 45/90 had a rather good rep as both a fine LR comp. cartridge AND a big critter killer using heavy slugs.


Because the 45-90 winchester and the 45-90 sharps are two different creatures. The Winchester version was as Brent said,shows signs that magumitis isn't a new invention. It was an attempt to get more velocity and flatter shooting from the 86 wincester. Hence the OAL of 2.6, so they used he 2.4 case but seated a 300 gr bullet deep enough to keep the oal short enough to cycle thru the 86.
By the time of the 85 and 86 introduction , long range shooting was disappearing fast, and the attention of the hunting community was geared more to deer and other light game,the need for long range heavy hitters wasn't there.
The bigger question is why Sharps did not agree to sell the manufacturing rights to Winchester, when they folded for the last time.
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#7281894 - 01/08/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: crossfireoops]
tex_n_cal Offline
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Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 17055
Loc: Back in Texas, for good!
Originally Posted By: crossfireoops
WELL DONE, Sir !

Going by the caliber stamp, I doubt that's an original factory barrel. I think you've got a nice OLD "Custom" there.

Curious about the screw in the receiver bridge, too. can't really say I've seen that before.

Best of luck with a neat new thumper, regardless!

GTC


Thanks, I suspected it was a custom, as I'd never seen a saddle ring carbine before in an 1885, and the price was too low to be a rare variation. Maybe I lucked out and he also put a fast twist barrel in it, too. smile
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#7281924 - 01/08/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: tex_n_cal]
BrentD Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 11730
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
I think you would be luckier if it has a slower twist. No need for those heavy bullets in a gun like that. The recoil would be substantial and that's a nice hunting rifle, good for 200, maybe 300 yds and a lighter bullet like a 405 would be great for that.

Interesting rifle for sure. Someone wanted that for a good reason that somehow, a lever gun couldn't do. I'd be interested to know more about the rationale behind it, but that is lost to time I suppose.
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#7344899 - 01/22/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: BrentD]
tex_n_cal Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 17055
Loc: Back in Texas, for good!
well, it's here now, and indeed the action locks up tight, the wood's solid, and the bore is bright & shiny.







The bore is eight lands & grooves, and appears to be a 1 in 20 twist, as best I can measure. The barrel is slightly tapered - 1.050 across the flats at the breech, .977 at the end of the forend, .910 diameter at the start of the round, and .830 at the muzzle. The front sight dovetail is 3/4" from the muzzle. S/N is 872XX. I was told it dates to 1900.

The sights...ummm...can't hardly see them, that might be an issue frown
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#7344989 - 01/22/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: tex_n_cal]
gunner500 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 23351
Loc: Oklahoma
Perfect, I'm jealous, Congrats Tex, hope she makes ya a good shooter.

Gunner
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#7345054 - 01/22/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: gunner500]
tex_n_cal Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 17055
Loc: Back in Texas, for good!
Thanks, it is pretty light & handy. I don't have precision scales here, but I get about 7 to 7.5 lbs.
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#7345168 - 01/22/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: tex_n_cal]
gunner500 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 23351
Loc: Oklahoma
A 7LB Sledge is right handy. grin, I'm gonna get one of those some day.

Gunner
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#7399564 - 02/03/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: gunner500]
tex_n_cal Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 17055
Loc: Back in Texas, for good!
I shot it today. It shot about 15" high at 50 yards frown and I discovered the blade on the front sight is also slightly loose in its cross piece.

As it was, holding below the target frame, it would do about 3-4 inches at 50 yards - if I cleaned the bore between shots. If I didn't clean it was worse.

At a minimum I need to get some a better (and taller) hunting front sight for it, and/or some sort of sporting tang sight.

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#7399762 - 02/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: tex_n_cal]
gunner500 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 23351
Loc: Oklahoma
Hey Tex, ya tried any KIK black powder in her yet?

Gunner
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#7400034 - 02/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: gunner500]
tex_n_cal Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 17055
Loc: Back in Texas, for good!
No, no one stocks KIK locally, that I know of, hence the Swiss. It would also be nice if I could use the same stuff in all my BP guns.
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#7400065 - 02/04/13 Re: New addition on the way... [Re: tex_n_cal]
BrentD Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 11730
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
swiss is more accurate anyway.
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