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#7313159 - 01/15/13 WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ?
williamlayton Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 26
Loc: Deer Park, Texas
This comes as a results of the what is the hardest kicker thread I started.
I noticed that many thoughts centered on weight and stocks.
It kind of resembles my thinking but not my understanding.
While some of you boys talked about guns that I would have guessed would have been on the list--oddly, a .Wheeland was not---some ecchoed my feelings about the o6. I didn't like it because of the stock--thin and that steel buttplate but the o6 carbine was not nearly as bad.
What--in your opinion---betrays a caliber and what helps calm the kick.
I have my own thoughts but what the hell do I know.
BTW---I like the .22 mag, does that make me tuff?
Blessings
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#7313173 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: williamlayton]
Travis13 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 260
Muzzle break will calm anything down but who the hell wants one

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#7313188 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: Travis13]
Tanner Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 10373
Loc: High Country Colorado
Shitty stock design/ergos.

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#7313193 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: williamlayton]
jwall Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5296
Loc: Southern Arkansas
Being STONE SOBER will 'enhance' recoil. lol
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jwall
3100 guy.

There is no aftermarket FIX for operator error. jw


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#7313231 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: jwall]
toad Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 5795
Loc: Montana
rifle weight plays a large role. i have two .375 RUM rifles, very similar except one is a few ounces lighter than the other, and the difference in recoil is noticable.

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Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.

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#7313245 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: toad]
ndhunterman Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 334
Loc: North Dakota
physics.

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#7313247 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: toad]
Jordan Smith Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 7892
Loc: Calgary, AB, Canada
Rifle weight, stock fit, barrel weight and length, scope height/cheek weld.
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#7313272 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: Jordan Smith]
JMR40 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 3778
Loc: Georgia
Real recoil is simple math involving

The rifles weight
projectile wight
projectile velocity
powder charge weight

Plug that info in here and you will calculate recoil

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

How the stock fits you. The quality of the recoil pad, muzzle breaks, etc, deteremine how you feel it.
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#7313289 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: JMR40]
EdM Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 9178
Loc: Between Texas & Idaho
Heavyazz bullets push by an azzload of powder? laugh
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#7313356 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: EdM]
EZEARL Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 2957
Loc: WV

If your actually going to have to use a cartridge/rifle combo that's going to kick more than what you like then a properly equipped and fitting rifle is nice for sure. But experience/practice is what makes it all come together.

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#7313379 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: JMR40]
jwall Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5296
Loc: Southern Arkansas
Originally Posted By: JMR40


How the stock fits you. The QUALITY OF THE RECOIL PAD, muzzle breaks, etc, deteremine how you feel it.



I'll not take the time nor space to be specific but...

A Rem 700 BDL 8 RM pushing 220 gr bullets @2900 SHOULD KICK HARDER

than a 338 WM: but it did NOT when the 338 was a Ruger 77 tang safy, THIN RED PAD.

A Rem 700 BDL 375 HH SHOULD KICK HARDER

than a 338 WM: but it did NOT when the 338 was a Ruger 77 tang safety, THIN RED PAD.

NO DOUBT the stock shape and FIT entered the pic also.
_________________________
jwall
3100 guy.

There is no aftermarket FIX for operator error. jw


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#7313475 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: Tanner]
Swampman700 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 11207
Originally Posted By: Tanner
Shitty stock design/ergos.


That's why the 670 Winchester will bring tears to your eyes.
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919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

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#7313646 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: Swampman700]
Micro_Groove Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 768
Loc: NC
No recoil pad or a crappy recoil pad can bring a bruise up pretty quickly.

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#7314758 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: williamlayton]
ColdBore Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8759
Beyond the obvious of stock design (drop), recoil pad, etc, some are just born to be badder than others.

Not sure of specifics, but I do know some are nastier than others.

I had a M700 Classic in 8mm Rem Mag and one in 375 H&H.

Both identical stocks with the same pads, holding actions and barrels that were identical, and both touching off a large case full of powder.

The 375 was a big shove, and quite manageable.

The 8mm Rem Mag was a very sharp, very fast "snap" that was thoroughly unenjoyable.

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#7314840 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: ColdBore]
nsaqam Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 16540
Loc: Hermantown MN
High ejecta mass, high speed, light weight, lousy stock design.
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I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.

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#7315129 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: nsaqam]
williamlayton Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 26
Loc: Deer Park, Texas
OK---what is a good stock design?
Blessings
_________________________
TEXAS, by GOD

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#7315180 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: williamlayton]
jt402 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 1870
I understand the formulas, but there is more to it than that. Once upon a time, about 1962, I shot my friends Remington 721 .30-06, no scope, no pad, hotly loaded 180s, and it actually was punishing. I wanted no more after a lcouple of shots.

A good many years ago, I bought a nice FN built Mauser .30-06 with a trim custom stock with a Neidner butt plate. I figured on a nice pad. To my surprise, it just is not bad with 180 Superformance ammo, even in shirt sleeves. Stock design, fit, cheek weld, and etc. have to also come into the equation in non mathematical ways. Jack
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#7315415 - 01/15/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: williamlayton]
Dave_in_WV Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 8041
Loc: West Virginia
Originally Posted By: williamlayton
OK---what is a good stock design?
Blessings


The Monte Carlo stock style is better than a "classic" style for some folks but not all. It depends on your build. IIRC the Monte Carlo style is better if you have a longish neck and or sloping shoulders. Mule Deer did a good article on stock styles a while back. A narrow butt will have more felt recoil than a thicker one. A narrow or sharp comb will hurt your cheek more than a more rounded one. A stock that moves straight back under recoil will hit your shoulder harder but is easier on your cheek. A comb height that's righ for your sight alignment is going to be easier on your cheek. I have a Remington 7600 7mm-08 and shooting with the iron sights is painful at the bench because the comb height is for scopes.

I guess the short answer is the style that fits you and your style of shooting.
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I can pull a 12 pound Smith & Wesson double action trigger far easier than whip another man. - Me

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#7318563 - 01/16/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: EdM]
raybass Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 2989
Loc: Montgomery, Tx
Originally Posted By: EdM
Heavyazz bullets push by an azzload of powder? laugh



This one!
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JOC was right. The 270 Winchester on a Model 70 is a great combination as is the 30/06 and 375 H&H


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#7321177 - 01/16/13 Re: WHAT CONDITIONS CREATE HARD KICKERS ? [Re: raybass]
inland44 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/08/10
Posts: 603
Loc: Michigan
I had a non shooter buddy that was begging me to take him out shooting one day. We 3 hand guns, a couple of .22 rifles and my M-1 carbine. He was having a hell of a good time. I pulled out my Remington BLD .30-06 and ran a few rounds.

I had spent some time with him on proper sholder weld, but I failed to mention that the .30-06 has a lighter tigger. I think that old plastic butt stock was about a 1/4 inch off his sholder when he touched it off. He got a pretty good bruse. I then showed him the difference between a 06 case and the .300WSM and I think he started to cry a little bit...
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