|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,285
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,285 |
So U recommend a high shoulder shot on a moose? I was going to go for a heart/lung shot and maxing my distance to 300yrds. I guess I don't type as much as I should. On Elk where it's more open I'd use my .25 cal rifles with no hesitation and take heart lung shots. Same with Moose. Moose will stand there and think about it while they're busy dying sometimes. But the .25-06 will work fine. My comment about a high shoulder shot goes along with using the .338 where I'm hunting steep & deep. Sometimes I'd rather not shoot heart lung as they can go down into a miserable hole. If you can hit the high shoulder with the .338 they most often go down where they were standing.
“You never need fear a man, no matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.”
Samuel Colt.
�Common sense is genius dressed up in work clothes.� - Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
For perspective, a couple of days ago, while hunting moose with a good friend of longstanding, we had at least a couple of bulls coming to the racket we set up to tease them. As it turned out, a big, obviously legal bull came into his field of view first and he took two shots from 300-400 yards. The moose was in an 'open' area that was quite cluttered with broomed willows, birch and other brush. The moose also was in pursuit of a cow when he shot and had been raking in response to the rattling I had been doing with the plastic stock on my Winchester 375 H&H. In any case, he hit the moose twice, neither a lethal shot though the second shot strayed and broke both rear legs. (He was shooting a 7 Rem Mag with 175 Core-lokts.) I heard the animal fall followed by some continued stirring and grunting. I arrived at the scene first to find the animal still full of fight and eager. Approaching within 25 yards or so, the animal attempted to rise on its front legs. Not knowing how badly it was wounded, I sent a 300 grain Partition into the heavy part of its shoulders - it was perfectly broadside as it raised its front end up rapidly. Surprisingly that shot didn't end its aggression and I used still one more to put it down for the count. While skinning we found one of the Partitions lodged against the hide on the far side. No major bones were broken by either bullet that I could determine, yet neither Partiton exited the hide.
Can a 25 caliber centerfire dispatch a moose? Certainly. But a 375 H&H doesn't appear to be too much gun either, and I'd hardly put a 25-06 in the same category as the 375 H&H with good bullets.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
A few years back I met a father/daughter pair. THe daughter had a bug bull and buck hanging and had believe she had taken a cow as well. She was using a .25-06 with 117g bullets, which I assumed were made by Hornady but didn't confirm.
Her dad said he had never seen a bull go down so fast.
This year Daughter #1 is going on her first elk hunt. We finished up load development/proofing and zeroing yesterday. She will be using a .308 win with a 130g TTSX running 3010fps. I ran the ballistic calculations last night and out to 400 yards they are virtually identical in drop and energy to my .257 Roberts pushing a 100g TTSX to 3233fps.
She was shooting it very well and will get more practice before her CO 2nd Rifle elk hunt but I don't see her shooting past 300 yards. My only admonition to her is to shoot until the elk is down and stays there, same as I advise everyone that hunts with me, regardless of their cartridge choice.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
For perspective, a couple of days ago, while hunting moose with a good friend of longstanding, we had at least a couple of bulls coming to the racket we set up to tease them. As it turned out, a big, obviously legal bull came into his field of view first and he took two shots from 300-400 yards. The moose was in an 'open' area that was quite cluttered with broomed willows, birch and other brush. The moose also was in pursuit of a cow when he shot and had been raking in response to the rattling I had been doing with the plastic stock on my Winchester 375 H&H. In any case, he hit the moose twice, neither a lethal shot though the second shot strayed and broke both rear legs. (He was shooting a 7 Rem Mag with 175 Core-lokts.) I heard the animal fall followed by some continued stirring and grunting. I arrived at the scene first to find the animal still full of fight and eager. Approaching within 25 yards or so, the animal attempted to rise on its front legs. Not knowing how badly it was wounded, I sent a 300 grain Partition into the heavy part of its shoulders - it was perfectly broadside as it raised its front end up rapidly. Surprisingly that shot didn't end its aggression and I used still one more to put it down for the count. While skinning we found one of the Partitions lodged against the hide on the far side. No major bones were broken by either bullet that I could determine, yet neither Partiton exited the hide.
Can a 25 caliber centerfire dispatch a moose? Certainly. But a 375 H&H doesn't appear to be too much gun either, and I'd hardly put a 25-06 in the same category as the 375 H&H with good bullets. Were you hunting with Safari man? David
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
For perspective, a couple of days ago, while hunting moose with a good friend of longstanding, we had at least a couple of bulls coming to the racket we set up to tease them. As it turned out, a big, obviously legal bull came into his field of view first and he took two shots from 300-400 yards. The moose was in an 'open' area that was quite cluttered with broomed willows, birch and other brush. The moose also was in pursuit of a cow when he shot and had been raking in response to the rattling I had been doing with the plastic stock on my Winchester 375 H&H. In any case, he hit the moose twice, neither a lethal shot though the second shot strayed and broke both rear legs. (He was shooting a 7 Rem Mag with 175 Core-lokts.) I heard the animal fall followed by some continued stirring and grunting. I arrived at the scene first to find the animal still full of fight and eager. Approaching within 25 yards or so, the animal attempted to rise on its front legs. Not knowing how badly it was wounded, I sent a 300 grain Partition into the heavy part of its shoulders - it was perfectly broadside as it raised its front end up rapidly. Surprisingly that shot didn't end its aggression and I used still one more to put it down for the count. While skinning we found one of the Partitions lodged against the hide on the far side. No major bones were broken by either bullet that I could determine, yet neither Partiton exited the hide.
Can a 25 caliber centerfire dispatch a moose? Certainly. But a 375 H&H doesn't appear to be too much gun either, and I'd hardly put a 25-06 in the same category as the 375 H&H with good bullets. Since Klik has likely seen more moose killed than many of the rest of us put together,he's worth listening to. Seen plenty of 25 caliber bullets, including Nosler Partitions,fired into game of various sizes from antelope to bull elk. Even was around for the field dressing and processing during post mortems to see exactly what those bullets did in terms of damage compared to the heavier and sturdier bullets fired from other cartridges from 270 and 7mm up through 300's,338,and 375. Hate to admit it but in general things like penetration, wound channels,reliably breaking heavy bone,and managing lousy angles got better as bullets got bigger,and/or tougher. Never saw any evidence of wound channels and penetration impressive enough to convince me that a 25/06 is a top drawer heavy game cartridge,although it works splendidly on deer sized stuff. I know from this that an average sized mule deer buck can stop a 120 gr Nosler partition with shoulder shots (I have the bullets here). I also know it will kill heavy game like elk,but does not make my own personal cut as an elk cartridge.Well constructed 270 bullets from 130 gr up show generally better performance. But then I never spent much time seeking the lowest common denominator in bullet/cartridge performance for BG hunting either. I was never that curious. YMMV.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,587
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,587 |
Well just got back from 3 days of hunting...didn't matter what I was carrying....saw no moose or any fresh sign of any.
Hopefully I will have time to get out again but we will see...
Thanks for the posts! All great info.
Rob
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Were you hunting with Safari man?
David
You're suggesting that the fact that Partitions from a 375 H&H failed to fully penetrate and exit the shoulder area of a moose is somehow ineptness on my part? Or are you suggesting something about a very competent partner who isn't a rifle loony, doesn't shoot lots and lots, was shooting from up in a tree - without a tree stand, and was shooting at a moving animal that also happened to be in a relatively 'open' field of scattered brush......perhaps you're trying to be an ass, because 'u' and 'me' have never met I'm sure. (Though I have known a few people whose names were not 'Richard' who we've called an abbreviated moniker of the same.  ) One of the biggest mistakes a person can make - and there are many obviously- is assuming they'll have ideal conditions when hunting, and that nothing could possibly go wrong. A KISS routine is never a bad plan, and being aware of an area of marginal adequacy - knowing your weaknesses- is never a bad idea.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,777
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,777 |
Klikitarik, I am sure they kill a lot of moose in Lousisiana..
Molon Labe
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
...Or are you suggesting something about a very competent partner who isn't a rifle loony, doesn't shoot lots and lots, was shooting from up in a tree - without a tree stand, and was shooting at a moving animal that also happened to be in a relatively 'open' field of scattered brush......
One of the biggest mistakes a person can make - and there are many obviously- is assuming they'll have ideal conditions when hunting, and that nothing could possibly go wrong. A KISS routine is never a bad plan, and being aware of an area of marginal adequacy - knowing your weaknesses- is never a bad idea.
It was a joke about your partners poor shooting. Your indignant justification of it just adds to the amusement and suggests neither you or your partner take your own advice seriously. David
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
Klikitarik, I am sure they kill a lot of moose in Lousisiana.. Where is Lousisiana? David
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638 |
Klikitarik, I am sure they kill a lot of moose in Lousisiana.. Where is Lousisiana? David I think he means 'Loozyann
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
It was a joke about your partners poor shooting.
A smiley can work wonders sometimes.  We'll make sure we hire you next time we go hunting.  (Can we ASSume you'll get'er done?)
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260 |
LOAD UP SOME 110 ab 115 -120 partitions or TTSX and kill stuff
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
It was a joke about your partners poor shooting.
A smiley can work wonders sometimes. We'll make sure we hire you next time we go hunting. (Can we ASSume you'll get'er done?) Duly noted . I wish I could say I've never let a shot go that I regretted, unfortunately not the case. David
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I think it's easy and commonly assumed that we have all kinds of control over the conditions under which actual hunting takes place. The internet makes such theorizing so very simple. Yet the reality is that a lot of actual hunting happens under conditions which are very different than the armchair 'hunting' we seem to enjoy so much. That is why I probably tend to be a little bit defensive in advocating for a bit more than simply 'adequate' when it comes to hunting, especially when the quarry is larger, harder, and perhaps tougher than the more common 150-200 pound "big game" which are most often pursued. As I pointed out in my first post on this thread, a 223 has bee proven 'adequate' on several occasions I have been witness to. But I've also witnessed so many situations similar to the instance I related about our recent hunt where there are a lot of factors that simply don't exist in most of our imaginary scenarios. I won't call a 25-06 inadequate for moose, nor call someone stupid for using it. However, there is no bullet made for a 25-06 that can't be stopped by a moose - which says something about both the cartridge and the critter, and hopefully that informs the one who has to make the ultimate decision about yanking the trigger.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638 |
Klik,
In your experience when do bullets start shooting through them?
I would guess a 7mm with 160gr TSX or 175 Nosler Partition might?
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Either of those would be great choices in a 7 mag with plenty of insurance should an angle or placement be less than ideal. The main consideration in my view is knowing I can make a decent hole in the lungs. I have never seen a moose whose lungs didn't either collapse or bleed out when they were breeched. An exit hole really has no bearing on their demise, nor its speed, and that big chest will readily hold several gallons of blood below a well-placed lung shot. I think my buddy's 175 Core-lokts did very well considering that one of them broke the both long bones above the hock in the hind legs. (If only it had gone where it was intended to go...  ) My addition of the anecdote about the Partitions in the "cape buff/elephant adequate" rifle was simply intended to convey, once more, the fact that moose are 'obstacles' of some significance that shouldn't be underestimated. In my experience, moose that are on the ground are generally out of gas and breathing their last or nearly so. I was therefore quite surprised when I saw the animal on the ground but holding his head up. I was even more surprised when I realized that he still had fight in his eyes and was eager to take on a challenge. 300 grain slugs certainly didn't feel like "too much" in the presence of a beast half a dozen times my size whose intent might have involved malice. 
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,587
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,587 |
So in your opinion Klikitarik what would be a minimum for moose hunting?
Rob
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I like the 7mm-08 with a 139/140 mono or heavier composite bullet - or equivalent on the bottom end, though I have used smaller stuff. And I really like what the 30-06 offers as a good basic rifle for the moose hunting I've done. I've never seen anything (moose-wise) that a 30-06 didn't have 'enough' for even when conditions were less than ideal. Obviously smaller things will work also as well as long as you're able and willing to limit yourself (which can be a real tough call to make when things aren't going as hoped - and you can't always know all the factors that might be affecting things at crunch time. I'm not the biggest fan of monos for general purpose uses, but I certainly think they offer an extra edge when you're running 'light' in caliber.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,587
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,587 |
Well got my moose yesterday...the 25-06 worked great! it was a 270yrd shot broad side, put one into his lungs. he went 20yrds and stopped, put a second one in and down he went. he was dead on the first but wanted to make sure.
that was end of the fun though...had to pack him out since quads arent allowed in the area.
I wouldnt hesitate to use the 25 again...next is my cow elk draw that opens on the 25th.
Rob
|
|
|
|
|
520 members (2003and2013, 1beaver_shooter, 1moredeer, 01Foreman400, 1minute, 1OntarioJim, 61 invisible),
2,625
guests, and
1,347
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,450
Posts18,471,039
Members73,934
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
