Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns I think the 10mm would have sold much better IF...

I'm interested in seeing how much the gap plays in as well....should be a fun compare/contrast.

Life is full of compromise, LW, almost indestructible, 15 rounds, but thick as a brick with a chitty trigger, or Heavy, 8 rounds, but with a better trigger and sights, or just heavier, good sights and trigger but with ...a gap. I need one of each.

With identical ammo, I'm expecting the 610 will have less velocity, just due to the gap. The difference will come in what is feasible with handloads.

155's @ 1,400fps is lay some smack on some schit.



Travis

Maybe, maybe not. There is more to the velocity of a revolver than just barrel cylinder gap. The cylinder leads and forcing cane also play a major role. The chamber and barrel dimensions of an semi auto pistol also play a role in determining velocity as well.

A revolver that is dimensioned correctly may have more velocity than a poorly dimensioned semi auto

It�s been proven time and time again that cylinder gap contributes only negligible loss in velocity; hardly even detectable. Go forth and don�t sweat that one.

I'm thinking the extra length the cylinder adds may make up for the gap.

Yes, it will also put smilies on cases, too, out of an unsupported barrel - at least in one case I had with a Bar-sto barrel.

Caution is indicated, depending on barrel style.

yeah, and individual guns can vary � some amount, too. I have two Colts and One Kimber, besides this new 610, all with the same nominal barrel length, so it will be interesing to see how they all average.

I learned my lesson last year...


Travis

How many times had the case been reloaded?

for reference, supported Kimber barrel on the left, factory 1980's Colt on the right.



I deleted the smiley case photo off PB, have to see if I still have it at home. The load was below Hornady's max at the time, and ran 155's at 1425 fps out of a Bar-sto barrel. Both Hornady and Accurate have both reduced max loads since then. It is also possible that gun had a firing pin stop issue, which allowed it to unlock too quickly. Darned accurate, though

The firing pin stop is just a �little extra�, it never (or should never) be the difference between safe and unsafe. Lock time is a function of about 90% slide weight, and only around 10% springs (recoil and hammer).

Which is probably why Colt added a full length solid rib to the slide of my Delta Elite.

How about the timing of the barrel and slide separating ways? Jack Huntington believes that if one delays the disengagement of those two via changing the depth and geometry of the barrel/slide locking lugs one effectively increases the slide weight or mass for part of the cycle by keeping it mated with the barrel and by extension the barrels weight/mass for the most critical microseconds of the rearward movement of the slide assembly. Do you concurr with that theory and practice?

In the case of my DE, we changed the barrel to one that suppported more of the case and fit the barrel in such a way that it remains locked to the slide a bit longer for that effect. Went with a nice stiff single recoil spring as well for good measure.

Once.


Travis

I�m going to go out on a limb and say I squarely don�t know. I�d love to sit down with him to gain a greater understanding. Simply setting the barrel deeper into the locking lugs could conceivably cause as many problems as it solves�or at least it seems that way to me. I�ve never tried it because I was taught to install a barrel the right way every time and to end up with a barrel significantly deeper into the lugs than normal would take a whole lot of extra work, so I�ve never ended up there even on accident. I�ve heard of people taking the link slightly over center to create a �moment� about the axis, but again, I don�t know the specifics of how that�s actually done, and how well it works. That�s an area where I just have never gone.

Thank you for an honest answer. I am sure that Jack Huntington would love to chat with you. Despite being a busy and in demand 1911 pistolsmith, I found him to be very personable and willing to yak a little when I sent him my two guns to be worked on. Look up JRH custom guns in Grass Valley Calif and his website will come up, with his phone number at the bottom of the home page. A faascinating guy to talk to who really loves and knows his 1911's. JWP475 reffered me to him and I am glad he did. Between his barrel work and your work on my Colt I have a real hierloom gun to pack, shoot, hunt with and be proud of.

Blessings,

MARK

Mark do you have a custom barrel in your delta elite? Some say not to shoot their ammo in the delta due to the rampless barrel?

If that 90% number is right, it would seem that ammo that runs in a 5" (or longslide 6") gun would be a problem in the subcompacts - like a Defender with a 3.25" barrel. But Defenders have a good reputation for function.

Both Wilson and EGW do sell the square bottom firing pin stops, and there's more than a few people who have reported a significant difference in feel when they are used.

That said, I'm not gonna casually throw the "smiley" load in anything, without working up.

That was my lame attempt at just trying to make a very simplistic statement. Honestly on a handgun, the barrel cam timing is THE critical element. But since that�s almost always a constant and typically isn�t something one ever messes with, or even can mess with in some designs, I just kinda left that out.

So it�s no absolute, just a rough estimate. Barrel length plays a role also because the second the bullet leaves the barrel, pressures drop dramatically. The earlier the bullet exists, the quicker the pressure drops�but then there�s less slide mass. So the shorter barrel offsets some, but probably not much. Certainly the smaller slide guns open when chamber pressure is higher than with longer barrel/slide guns, but there's obviously enough there to get the job done. So while I think the FP stop thing on a high intensity round in a 1911 is never a bad idea, it will never be a critical factor. It will never turn an unsafe situation into a safe one; too fine a margin.