Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns YOU WON'T SEE THIS WITH A 1911

More woes with the M-9 and you should see the face of the poor sailor who got whacked:

Not good, I hope the man recovers

That is why the SEALS ditched that pistol a LONG time ago.

He has a deep cut on this face, right above his lip and under his nose (slightly right),in the exact pattern of the back of the slide. He's going to be OK.

Wow... and 'OW'!

If that was a military gun, then it didn�t get the upgrade. If it�s a civilian or LE pistol, they were not recalled by Beretta. If that�s the case, I�d say the individual would be well within his rights to bring suit against Beretta for not recalling those pistols. This is a well known issue that should have been dealt with. http://thegunzone.com/m9-a.html

What happened? I've probably shot more 9's out of Beretta's than any other brand. Lots of them were HOT too. Details?

Ah yes, the famous M9 Tellurium beauty mark.

At least it didn't hit his eye.

I'd sure like to see good photos of the fractures. Tough to tell from here, but they look brittle

The photos came in on the DoN side of the wire this morning. "victim" was a USN AD type. It's been hashed here before, but military 9mm ammo is loaded very hot, I think so they can reliably work on the MP-5? Anyhow,as I prediceted, Alloy framed M-9s are not holding up to the rigors of military abuse. It appears the weapon had in excess of 30K rounds though it so I will "pull back" a little on my disdain for this firearm...and the cartridge of course

I've owned two or three. After reading the article and attendant commentary here over the years, no more M9 for me.

Out of curiosity, can a frame break like that without visible cracks forming before it seperates?

It would be highly unusual.

A brittle fracture implies little or no plastic deformation of the metal, before it fails. Visible cracks imply some plastic deformation to the part.

Most metal firearms parts - the ones that contain the main firing pressures and forces, are designed to be tough, and give a little before fracturing. Even if they have hard surfaces from case hardening or nitriding, they have tough cores to prevent truly brittle fractures. The notorious low-numbered Springfields of 100 years ago failed in brittle manners, due to incorrect heat treating.

It looks like there is some rust on the fracture surfaces. That could have occured after the break, or afterwards as freshly exposed metal encountered humidity in the air. It would be interesting to know how long after the event the photo was taken.

I had an M9 slide fail at the port side locking lug cutout. The other side held, but the gun stopped working, obviously.

Mine had the Slide Capture Device installed anyway, so my face wasn't really at risk.

A second M9 failed me when the locking block began detaching from the barrel, locking up the weapon.

The M9 is just a weak design IMO/IME. The SCD will save some teeth, but doesn't address the crux of the issue.

The Brigadier models look to have more metal around the locking lug cutouts, so maybe they are reasonably durable.

At any rate, I've been soured on them for a long time.

Never liked them and would never own one, many better designed and accurate weapons out there that are much better in durability and accuracy IMHO

The frame didn't fail.

That's the classic M9 slide failure, at the locking lug cutouts.

The locking block is a wear part, and should be periodically replaced. Just like wear parts on AR's this never happens in the military. They just wait until it breaks. If the locking block is easily removed, it is way past time to replace it. Some say they need to be fitted to keep the gun from battering itself.

I have found the M9 to be an excellent weapon, extremely reliable and very accurate; as in, you�d have to spend a fortune to end up with a pistol that shoots better. That being said, one has to recognize that ALL pistols will have weaknesses; ALL of them. The M9�s weaknesses are two fold, the locking block, and the slide design; both, Beretta should have known better. The locking blocks in P-38�s were famous for breaking, as were P-38 slides. The problem with the M9 slide is that there just isn�t enough slide mass to blunt the forces of the 9mm NATO cartridge. So both the slide and locking block have become wear parts and should be discarded after 5,000 rounds, when in military service. That�s the weakness of the Beretta design. It�s a great pistol when it�s up and running, but it doesn�t have a long life span. And Beretta should have known better.

Durability yes, accuracy, I don't know. Every Beretta M9/92 (and Taurus 92 for that matter) I have fired have been lights out accurate. Not match accurate, but not far from it. I have found Beretta 92's and Sig 220 series pistols to be consistently the most accurate out of the box service grade pistols available.

But you're certainly right about long term durability. Honestly, I would have been happy if they dumped the Beretta and adopted the Glock years ago.

That's good fuel for why the miltary needs to go back to the 1911.