Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Remington Rolling Block

I stopped in the LGS today and found a Rolling Block Carbine on the rack. Chambered in .43 Spanish, it is in good+ condition. Rifling is sharp with no obvious pitting, the chamber is clean, action seems tight, and the muzzle has only minor wear.

Looks like it was carried a lot and shot a little. The wood is dinged up, but no pieces missing and is solid. The bluing on the barrel is mostly gone, but the action retains a great deal of its bluing.

They are asking $750 for it. Is that a decent price?
I know, this thread is worthless without pictures...

Ed

There's one at my LGS for $695 and has been there a loong time. Not sure how it compares condition wise with the one you're looking at, but it looks fairly good.

http://shop.williamsgunsight.com/moreinfo.aspx?pid=039367&cs=/sproducts.aspx&ai=M

Very similar, but this one has less blue on the barrel.

Thanks for putting that up.

Ed

Ed if you are looking for a good roller check this place out. I am linking to their "what's new" page. They have quite a selection

http://www.simpsonltd.com/products_new.php

This should pull up most of their rolling blocks.
http://www.simpsonltd.com/advanced_...;search_in_description=1&x=0&y=0

World's most IMPRACTICAL caliber,......requiring "Throw Away Brass", ....e.g. ROLLED sheet Copper or (later) brass, with an impossibly THIN chamber Neck I.D.. Thicker "Modern Brass" sees one loading a bullet WAY too small for the rifle's groove dia.

BTDT,.......and got PAID to figure out the equation iterated above.

Bottom line, if you want something with absolutely NO potential for even mediochre accuracy, an original ".43 Spanish" is just the ticket.


Those saying that one can use .45-70 Govt. to "Form" the cases are fulla' chit, the (.45 Govt.) rim's just too bloody SMALL.

GTC

In all fairness I'd have to point out that the .43 Spanish brass is WAY easier to find, and way cheaper than that oddball .45-70 stuff, that everybody wants an arm and a leg for......

43 Spanish Cases
Item: JAM43SPAN Temporarily Unavailable - Back-Orders OK
Manufacturer: Captech International (Formerly Jamison International)
Click on more for quantity discounts.
More...
$2.59

....only 51.80 for 20 of em' .

proper molds are even easier to find,......

Thanks, Tom. If I were really looking for a good Rolling block, I'd get Greg to locate a suitable donor action and have him build one for me.

I was just curious since I have an affinity for single shots.

Ed

Thanks, Greg.

I am really not interested in a .43 Spanish anything. As I posted above, my single shot curiosity got the best of me.

1874 Sharps is still my first choice.

Ed

Ed,
I'll preface this with a "my opinion only" warning. $750 is a LOT of scratch for a wall hanger. Not that it couldn't be a functional shooter, but as crossfire has pointed out, it would be somewhat spendy to do so. And the carbine length would, again, IMHO, be useful as a hunter for relatively short range only. That said, years back (after I had already ordered a Shiloh 1874) I found a reconditioned RB action only and spent addtional money on a new Badger barrel and new butt and fore stock. My total investment, including machining work and new sights, was in the neighborhood of $1k. I really like the rifle and had I not already ordered the Sharps, would not have done so. RBs are not "cool" in the eyes of many, but I sure like mine. I am glad I didn't cancel my Shiloh order mostly because one BPCR just isn't enough. If you could get that carbine for about half the asking price, you may still want to consider it. Just free ramblings from an old fogey and worth every penny . . .

I don't think I could get that one that cheap. The store owner is s friend of mine and I wouldn't want to insult him.

The link that Tom gave shows a lot of potential donors for roughly half what my guy is asking, if, and only if, I wanted to go that route.

I have been bitten, infected by, and am seriously suffering from 1874 Sharps fever.

Ed

Well lets not let inexperience get in the way of making informed choices.
It is really doable to take Norma basic 45 brass trim it back to the correct overall length , run it into a size die, load with blackpowder,seat bullet and fireform...
Been messing with some cases doing that in the 44-77 and after the original fireform , the things headspace on the shoulder, the body has a barely detectable bulge just ahead of the case head, and so far have lasted about a dozen firings with no signs of impending separation..
And bullet selection is plumb easy,no big thing to patch up some 44 mag lead bullets, if one is to tight or too lazy to order a bullet mould from Lyman,RCBS,Buffalo Arms, or Accurate moulds..

There is a RRB in 11MM Reformado in my area and it looks like
a museum piece. Bore is perfect, but the ammo problem is keeping
it on the shelf.

I don't know where they get the brass, but the first cousin .44-77 has a following. My RB is a .43 Mauser, more like a .44-90 bottleneck in case capacity. I bought mine in about 1950, from an add in Outdoor life. It and two boxes of Dominion ammo was about &16-17, shipped. Little finish, a little pitting, but it shoots pretty good. Ammo is now pricey, so I just look at it. Lee offered dies at their usual bargin prices until two or three years ago. I was not smart enough to get some....

SNORK !!!

Just wait until you have been bitten by the Mamba Sharps (aka the Model 1877). Sexier than a swimsuit model, more exotic than the dark side of the moon.

It appears that the Sharps 1874 bug may he terminal as it is. How bad can the 1877 be?

Ed

P.S. Woody, you are a bad influence.

A 77 bug is at least twice as bad - but it is much rarer, fortunately. However that may change soon and an epidemic may break out.

There is no vaccination for it (except maybe preemptive bankruptcy - feel free to send me your life savings to try to save you ).

.....and I thoroughly corrupted Woody. Too-Many-Letters ya NEED an 1874 Sharps (the 1877 WUZN'T a Buffler Gun)!!

The part about it being rarer is probably my only hope.

There is a vast 1874 conspiracy attacking my defenses at every turn and the fever is getting worse.

I just looked at the 1877 model...

I see now, Brent, that you are part of this conspiracy as well.

I am doomed.



Ed

Yes, if you get a 74, you will wish you had held out for a 77. Might as well dive in the deep end right off the bat.

Word on the street has it that the basic 77 from Shiloh is going to be the same as the #1's etc..
Kirk has shot the first one in Texas state sillouette match and they had it on display at the NRA show in Houston..

Yep, I saw it there at the show. The side plate is very sculpted and graceful looking. The action weighs one pound less than the 1874, so for a given weight of rifle, a heavier barrel may be used.

I have a iPhone photo of it here:

The lighter action/lock and heavier barrel was exactly the reason why they came up with the 77. "Creedmoor" rules of the day specified the rifle could not weigh over 10 lbs,and no artificial rests or support could be used. The heavier barrel was thought to help control/lesten recoil.

ET is right, as usual. The 77 Sharps was never a buffalo gun. Sharps only built just over a hundred of them, and they didn't sell all that well. Sharps attempted to dispose of their excess inventory of 77 rifles by rechambering them as Express rifles and selling them as a gentleman's hunting rifle.

If you don't have a 74 Sharps, GET ONE. It is a real Sharps, not a wannabe like a 77 or a Borchardt. Every rifle in your gun safe cries itself to sleep at night wishing it would wake up as a 74 Sharps. I have two good original Remington rollers, and they absolutely live with an inferiority complex because of my 74 Sharps.

god it is fun to watch the "experts" pontificate.

What a hoot.

Bill, you're not helping...

Ed

Yes and not only that but Homer Fishers 1880 catalog was trying to fire sale those expressed versions and the long range versions out the door for 65$ about half priced.
I just hope history doesn't repeat itself on these 77's, they've not been a good thing for anybody that has ever tried to market them..

This should help .. Reminds me of our bomb dump in SEA..Once you start casting and shooting your own bricks you'll realize what my bud Nick[AKA otter]told me when I first ordered my Shilo..." Up till now you've only been assembling your ammo but with a Sharps you're actually reloading!" So very true!

Ignoring childish comments, and historical unpopularity for the moment, are there any functional downsides to the 1877?

Nope

I take that back. the 74 will drop its block and firing pin without a screwdiver or any other tool. the 77 requires a screwdiver (one) to pull the block/firing pin assemble.

the 77 has a marginally lighter, faster hammer.

They are a BEAUTIFUL and well balanced rifle. Svelte, graceful, sexy.

That said, my personal critique would be inherent weakness through the lock / wrist area of the stock. They BREAK in that area, and not infrequently.

Brent D. KNOWS this, and apparently chooses to eschew commenting.

The '74 is perhaps THE strongest of ANY of em', as regards action / butt stock interface.

GTC

.

The stock strength of a 77 vs a 74 is negligibly different. Both are back action locks and if you think those weaken a stock significantly, consider all the double rifles, shotguns, and single shot rifles from all over Europe that are still growing strong today. They have impossibly thin wrists to boot, not one, but TWO locks for the doubles, and yet I've several that are used hard, and often though "only" 150 yrs old. Still going strong.

If well fit, the 77 and the 74 are pretty much the same. The emphasis being "well fit". If not (ie a used Axtell rather than a new Shiloh), then bed the sucker and be done with it. As there is not a gunmaker in the world that fits wood to metal better than Shiloh, I'm rather confident that the 77s will have no strength issues.

As for the stocks being "strongest of ANY of em'" you gotta be kidding. A Highwall beats any Sharps in that department. As does a roller. And even the Ballards - which ALWAYS have a crack in the wrist - are still still less likely to break than any Sharps.

FWIW, I have '74, '77, '78 Sharps, along with multiple Winchesters 'walls and Ballards and a goodly number of back-action double guns, both rifles and shotties. All have been used hard - very hard. I don't worry about back-action locks weakening anything.

You're the "Spurt" (eX-sPURT) here, Mister.

fling your offerings wherever ya' like.

"FWIW", you posted a real bitch fest about how weak 77s are not all that long ago.

Me,....I know SwFA about any of this, and would certainly defer to your apparently bottomless pool of knowledge.

Without any "bottom",.....there's one to ponder.

GTC

Well at least I own and shoot both 77s and 74s extensively, and I know the difference between Shiloh quality and Axtel "quality".

Maybe that makes me an expert. Maybe not. What does it make you?

As usual, you'd rather bark at me than offer anything substantive (could it be that you don't HAVE anything substantive? No!).

Look dumbshit, do you really think Shiloh is going to make a self-destructing rifle? I mean really. Get a clue before you "spurt".