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Originally Posted by Orion2000
please keep in mind that my previous post is in the spirit of open debate/discussion. not an attack on tmitch or anyone else... I'm not offended. And hopefully I do not offend no one else.
Take your lithium and calm down.


I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted by safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted by Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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Originally Posted by Orion2000
[quote=tmitch]You guys are kiddin', right? ...

Uh, no... In this case it is about equality:

Left Handers = 10% of population
Mixed Handers = ~20%
ADA Severe disabilities = 12%
ADA Non-severe disabilities = 7%
LGBTQ = 5% to 6%

Numerically, Left handers are on par with the Severely disabled, and double the LGBTQ population. If you include Mixed Handers, people who switch hands based on the task (in the case of shooters, think cross eye dominant, blind in dominant eye, shoulder injury) the potential left hand population eclipses all ADA and LGBTQ populations combined. However, there is no legal requirement for "accommodation" of the left hand population.

Myself and 30 million other Americans were born left handed. We did not "choose" to be left handed. From a purely numerical stand point, there are much smaller populations of people who receive legal protection because they were "born that way" than left handers.

If I want a LH SS M70 in .30-06, why should I have to pay 2x to 3x the cost of the same rifle in RH configuration, just to put the bolt on the opposite side of the receiver ? We don't tell restaurant patrons in wheel chairs that they have to pay 2x or 3x the menu price to cover the cost of the wheel chair ramp out front. We don't tell restaurant patrons in wheelchairs that they can only choose 20% of the available menu options. But that is essentially what happens to Left Hand firearms owners year in and year out.

Am I going to run out and hire Johnny Cochran ? No. But, the fact that Left Handers are not a legally recognized "protected class" does not mean that there is not discrimination...

nsaqam, My apologies in advance for derailing your thread... blush

Citations:

Not sure those examples are analogous at all. Making left handed rifles available is not the same as allowing wheelchair access. Not sure one could successfully suit and force Remington to make more left handed rifles. I do everything LH and am Left Eye dominate. never really has bothered me it is just the way it is. I kind of find it fun searching for what I want or building what I want in a rifle.


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Originally Posted by Bricktop
Out of the 10%, how many actually SHOOT left handed? And how many of that actually USE a left-handed rifle?

I have met innumerable people -- anecdotal information that's worth at least as much as any horseshit from Wikipedia -- who are genuinely left-handed without any opposite eye dominance and shoot right-handed because that's how they were taught. (Or in the case of a co-worker, because he didn't want to be "different" when he was growing up.) I had a former co-worker who was genuinely left-handed who would NOT buy anything left-handed, because he was concerned that his children be able to use or sell anything of his when he's gone. (He's also a dunce, but that's another matter.) ...

Two related, but different discussions: Economic vs equality...
First, on the economic front, let me state that I have no expectation that Left Hand firearms will be a treasure trove of profit for the manufacturers. You have to produce what you can sell profitably. No profit, no business. Have run my own business for a number of years. I get it.

But chicken or egg ? Would there be more left handed shooters buying and shooting left handed rifles (greater market demand) if a greater selection of left handed firearms were readily available at parity or close to parity cost ? I am one of the guys you reference above that shot right hand rifles from the left side for 40 years because that was all I knew. Now that I know better, I would like to have the same opportunity to purchase the more unique rifles available to right handers without having to go the full custom route, or scrounging the internet for days/months waiting for one to come up for sale...

On the equality front, why does our society treat left handers as second rate citizens due to our unique handedness ? Why should your coworker above have been treated any differently as a kid for being left handed ? Versus tall, short, whatever ? Where is the "tolerance" for diversity among handedness ?

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Originally Posted by Orion2000
please keep in mind that my previous post is in the spirit of open debate/discussion. not an attack on tmitch or anyone else... I'm not offended. And hopefully I do not offend no one else.
Take your lithium and calm down.

LOL ! I have often had the same thought after reading many of your rants... grin



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Originally Posted by Orion2000
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Out of the 10%, how many actually SHOOT left handed? And how many of that actually USE a left-handed rifle?

I have met innumerable people -- anecdotal information that's worth at least as much as any horseshit from Wikipedia -- who are genuinely left-handed without any opposite eye dominance and shoot right-handed because that's how they were taught. (Or in the case of a co-worker, because he didn't want to be "different" when he was growing up.) I had a former co-worker who was genuinely left-handed who would NOT buy anything left-handed, because he was concerned that his children be able to use or sell anything of his when he's gone. (He's also a dunce, but that's another matter.) ...
Two related, but different discussions: Economic vs equality...
First, on the economic front, let me state that I have no expectation that Left Hand firearms will be a treasure trove of profit for the manufacturers. You have to produce what you can sell profitably. No profit, no business. Have run my own business for a number of years. I get it.

But chicken or egg ? Would there be more left handed shooters buying and shooting left handed rifles (greater market demand) if a greater selection of left handed firearms were readily available at parity or close to parity cost ? I am one of the guys you reference above that shot right hand rifles from the left side for 40 years because that was all I knew. Now that I know better, I would like to have the same opportunity to purchase the more unique rifles available to right handers without having to go the full custom route, or scrounging the internet for days/months waiting for one to come up for sale...

On the equality front, why does our society treat left handers as second rate citizens due to our unique handedness ? Why should your coworker above have been treated any differently as a kid for being left handed ? Versus tall, short, whatever ? Where is the "tolerance" for diversity among handedness ?

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Originally Posted by Orion2000
please keep in mind that my previous post is in the spirit of open debate/discussion. not an attack on tmitch or anyone else... I'm not offended. And hopefully I do not offend no one else.
Take your lithium and calm down.
LOL ! I have often had the same thought after reading many of your rants... grin
If there were really money to be made in making left-handed rifles, "Winchester" would be making them as opposed to bullshit like "their" bastardized Model '86, '92, '95, and now '73 replicas.

There's not any discrimination, there's not any vast conspiracy, it's simply a dollars and cents, risk versus reward equation.

Right now we have Ruger and Savage filling the gap in that department from a major manufacturer standpoint (and sometimes Remington and Sako) as well as smaller manufacturers like MRC, Forbes, and Cooper for a "reasonable" price. Twenty years ago we had Ruger and sometimes Remington, Sako, and Savage (Savage sort of SUCKED before their current iteration under Ron Coburn's leadership.)

Our choices are about as good as they're going to get. Learn to appreciate them.


I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted by safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted by Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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Originally Posted by Bricktop
If there were really money to be made in making left-handed rifles, "Winchester" would be making them as opposed to bullshit like "their" bastardized Model '86, '92, '95, and now '73 replicas.
....
Our choices are about as good as they're going to get. Learn to appreciate them.

Agree on both counts...



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Originally Posted by Stadle01
Originally Posted by Orion2000
[quote=tmitch]You guys are kiddin', right? ...


If I want a LH SS M70 in .30-06, why should I have to pay 2x to 3x the cost of the same rifle in RH configuration, just to put the bolt on the opposite side of the receiver ? We don't tell restaurant patrons in wheel chairs that they have to pay 2x or 3x the menu price to cover the cost of the wheel chair ramp out front. We don't tell restaurant patrons in wheelchairs that they can only choose 20% of the available menu options. But that is essentially what happens to Left Hand firearms owners year in and year out.

Am I going to run out and hire Johnny Cochran ? No. But, the fact that Left Handers are not a legally recognized "protected class" does not mean that there is not discrimination...



Johnny might of been a great attorney but doubt he can do you much good from his grave.


My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
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I have a LH Remington Model 788 in 6mm. Not very rare, but the rarest I have. wink

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I don't have any rare left handed rifles, just some that I couldn't easily replace.

Winchester Model 70 Classic Safari Express in 375 H&H
Remington 788 in 308 Win
Zastava Mauser in 458 Win Mag.


Frank

"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."

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Originally Posted by Bricktop
If there were really money to be made in making left-handed rifles, "Winchester" would be making them as opposed to bullshit like "their" bastardized Model '86, '92, '95, and now '73 replicas.


Sad, but very true!











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Archery companies have been offering left-handed versions of every bow they make for decades.
Why haven't they gone broke?

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Originally Posted by Fiddler
Archery companies have been offering left-handed versions of every bow they make for decades.
Why haven't they gone broke?
Different manufacturing process, knothead. Please let me know when you have a real question. Or thought.


I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted by safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted by Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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Originally Posted by Fiddler
Archery companies have been offering left-handed versions of every bow they make for decades.
Why haven't they gone broke?


All parts are the same except for the risor which just takes a different CNC program. Before all bows were machined aluminum (when they were cast magnezeum) not all bows were available in left hand.

I've sold fishing equipment for may years and every year I watch the left handed reels end up on the closeout list in great quantity because they don't sell except in the Pacific NW but that's a whole different reason. 10% of the population may be left handed but 10% of the fishermen don't use left handed reels, same thing goes for rifle shooters.

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I thought I was a pretty good left handed gun owner, I have an A-Bolt that I've rebarreled to 260, a stable of the new T-Bolts and a handful of Tikka's, one of which I've re-barreled to 257 Bob and some Blaser R93's and an R8, all left handed.
But after I saw some of the rifles in this thread, I've decided I'm nothing but a minor leaguer. Wow! There is some incredible stuff here and I'm really glad you guys have taken the time to post photos.
Thanks again.

Last edited by OSU_Sig; 06/28/13.

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Originally Posted by Fiddler
Archery companies have been offering left-handed versions of every bow they make for decades.
Why haven't they gone broke?


Not to beat this to death, or Fiddler, but in the mid '80s I was traveling through Nebraska and stopped at the Cabelas in Kearney and Sidney. I think at the time these were their only retail outlets. Perusing through their archery department I notice a large section of bows, possibly 100, all left handed and above them was a sign "All LH bows $50 each". According to the clerk they tried to carry a good selection of LH bows but found they just didn't sell fast enough to justify the overhead, so they were only going to stock a very few of the most popular models in common sizes in LH and special order the rest. I went home with a trunk full for family and coworkers.


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I have model 70 left hand classic sporter in a 270... Shoots 140gr accubondsxand h4831 pretty good


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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I once had a M700 LH long action 6.5 Rem Mag. with a factory barrel on it. I can't remember the lenght but I believe it was 24". A call to the factory verified the action started out as a 7mag but nothing more.




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Originally Posted by gmack
I have a Remington BDL LH in 338 WM. Only one I've seen.




doubt that they're rare, as I have one! frown

though mine didn't have the bolt lock on safety but had the slot for it, so I ordered an old safety lever from Brownells and installed it, it also resides in a McMillan, and a lot of the blue is worn off of it due to it was my main rig when I was guiding in SW Alaska.

sure enjoying this thread, but am hoping bea175 remembers me in his will and he has no LH heirs!


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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In addition to the Mathieu 340 Wby, and a Sedgley Springfield, Steyr Model M, and several other obscure LH rifles, I just scored a commercial FN Mauser 98 '06 that was converted to LH by an unidentified gunsmith who definitely knew what he was doing. The rear receiver bridge was cut off, reversed and re-welded. It looks like it grew there. Excellent work. I had to have it. I haven't shot it yet but thinking about a 35 Whelen rebore.

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Not sure how rare,but: 4-Savage LH LRPV- 2 in 20 Practical, 1 in 22-250, and 1 in 6mmBR. 2- Rem 700 LH FS(30-06 and 270), LH Win 70 Classic Stainless 300 Win Mag, 375 Classic Safari Express, 458Lott rebarrel of another 375 Safari Express, 2- MRI Mountain Eagle (375 and 270). I was surprised to see someone had the same Rem FSs and Mountain Eagles as me.

Dean

Almost forgot the LH Win 70 Fwt.7mm WSM.and the Rem 700 KS in 35 Whelen I got recently.

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1903 Rock Island LH conversion in .270 Winchester.

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