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#790674 - 05/05/06 10:15 AM Re: 25 06, or even 257 roberts on elk?
allenday Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 3052
Loc: Yamhill Co., OR
Personally, I wouldn't hunt elk with a 25-06 for any reason.

To be sure, lots of elk have been taken with 25-06s and the like, but then years ago Vern O'Brian used to build rifles in 17 Mach IV, hunt and kill Alaskan brown bear with them, then write articles about his experiences. Eskimos have hunted polar bears with 222s, W.D.M. Bell used to hunt elephants with a 7mm Mauser, older timers used to hunt grizzlies with 44-40s, etc.

You can find plenty of stories of small calibers being used to kill truckloads of big game -- enough such stories to prove just about any point you'd care to make -- much like BULL-istic arguments that guys come up with to build a case for any cartridge you can think of. Tweek the numbers enough, and you can surely prove your point, whatever it might be!

I don't like hunting big, tough animals such as elk with what I call "cocktail time" cartridges. I like to use cartridges that work well under the worst of conditions, not just under the best of conditions. What works for Texas whitetails and varmints is generally NOT well-suited for elk under all conditions, and after many, many elk seasons, I have yet to find a cooperative elk or a predictable set of elk hunting circumstances. So I like to hit 'em with plenty of gun and plenty of well-constructed bullet.

My personal threshold elk cartridge is the 270 Win. with tough 150 gr. bullets, and I think the 30-06 with strong 180s is a more sensible minimum still. And as you go upt from there, performance gets better yet, assuming good shot placement.

Read J.Y. Jones' great book, "Ask the Elk Guides" for further discussion...........

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_________________________
"The placing of the bullet is everything. The most powerful weapon made will not make up for lack of skill in marksmanship."

Colonel Townsend Whelen

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CI16728
#790675 - 05/05/06 01:52 PM Re: 25 06, or even 257 roberts on elk?
CRS Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/21/05
Posts: 2185
Loc: Black Hills of Dakota
Yes they will work, No I won't use one unless it is all I had.

I have witnessed/killed elk with 243, 270, 7mmRM, 30-06, 300WM, 338-06, 338WM, 375 H&H. I personally shoot a 338-06. There is no substitute for bullet diameter.

The elk I have witnessed with 338 and up calibers left no doubt that they were hit.
The smaller calibers worked, but I prefer the bigger calibers.

Sorry, no personal experience with the 25's.
_________________________
Arcus Venator

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#790676 - 05/05/06 04:42 PM Re: 25 06, or even 257 roberts on elk?
340mag Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 2208
FOR ELK,I VASTLY prefer the over thirty caliber cartridges throwing at least a 225 grs and I prefer the 250-270 grain weights in the 338-358 and 375 calibers launched at a minimum of 2300fps. thats a preferance gained after watching close to a hundred dead ELK dressed out over 35 plus years in several states and having hunted in several larger ELK camps (lets say IM an OBSESSED ELK HUNTER)and having looked at the internal damaged carefully. now that being said and having hunted with guys over the years carrying 25/06 and 257 wby rifles on several occasions and having one guys dad carry a 257 roberts for many years I can honestly tell you that the guy BEHIND the rifle has a great deal to do with what works well!
will a 257 roberts, or 25/06 , KILL ELK? HELL YES!, in the hands of an excellent shot its fully up to the task under most conditions if premium bullets are used. and the range is not excessive. but it does not have the same effect on impact, it doesn,t penetrate as deeply from less than ideal angles, and it won,t leave the same wound path thru an ELK.
now why would you put yourself under a handicap, that will limit your range, limit your potential choice of shot angles , when a differant sellection that won,t have those potential problems, is available. like the others Id suggest a 270 win as a more reasonable minimum
I started out with a 30/06, it killed ELK just fine but it had no where near the instant effect on impact the 338-358-375 calibers had, nor did it tend to leave exit wounds on raking angles

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#790677 - 05/06/06 10:38 AM Re: 25 06, or even 257 roberts on elk?
John_G Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: B.C., Canada
I love reading these types of threads but I have a hard time chiming in because I feel that it's pretty hard to draw the line for someone else. There is no doubt that a .257 will kill an elk; just put a well-constructed bullet in the right place and the animal will die. The problem lies in the nature of the hunter himself. How good a shot are you? What are your personal limits on shots that you'd take/pass up? One of my sons is very fussy, and refuses to shoot at animals unless they are within 200 yards and standing broadside. Second, the kid (well, he's 21 now) is a helluva shot, even offhand. With him, I know I'd feel comfortable seeing him shoot at an elk with just about anything greater than a .22 LR. He prefers to use his .270 and sometimes he uses one of our .308's, and they are more than enough for the task, given his abilities and preferences.

Everyone has to draw the line somewhere, and they should base that decision on a knowledge of the terrain they'll hunt and their abilities/habits - and also what makes them feel confident. You've had some input here from some very experienced hunters who have shot a lot more elk than I have (allen, Brad, Mark, etc.) and they have given you some different answers. The thing is, they're all correct!

For my personal use, I draw the line at .27 caliber. I'm an OK shot but nothing special. My limit is 300 yards, and then the rest has to be solid. I'll take a quartering (45 degree) shot but that's the sharpest angle I'll attempt. I'd shoot an elk with a 6mm, .25, or a 6.5 if the opportunity arose, but I wouldn't intentionally choose those calibers if I was heading out after an elk. I prefer to use the .30-06, as that seems to suit me just fine, and I have never had an elk go very far after being hit with one.

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#790678 - 05/07/06 03:24 AM Re: 25 06, or even 257 roberts on elk?
Mauser96 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1451
I've noticed for the past couple years that you capitalize ELK all the time.

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#790679 - 05/07/06 03:32 AM Re: 25 06, or even 257 roberts on elk?
7 STW Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 12133
You know guy's the old record book polor bear was killed with a 270 Win and a factory 130 gr broze point.I wouldn't pick a 25 cal myself but with proper shot placement and bullet construction it will work.Just won't have the knock-down power as a larger diameter bullet.The bigger the bullet the more energy is deposited.
_________________________
Mike


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#790680 - 05/07/06 04:44 AM Re: 25 06, or even 257 roberts on elk?
Pete_in_Idaho Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 362
Yes, and to lend further insult the 130 bronze- point was fired from a Rem. M760 pump. Now that's my idea of a real polar bear rilfe.

I think the chap's name was Tom Bolack, then govenor of N.Mexico. Proably a Democrat.

Love those old Outdoor Lifes! Pedro

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#790681 - 05/07/06 07:35 AM Re: 25 06, or even 257 roberts on elk?
AggieDog Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 3685
Loc: Northern California
That's it, I'm putting my 25-06AI up for sale, along with the Roy....................

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#790682 - 05/07/06 07:40 AM Re: 25 06, or even 257 roberts on elk?
Mauser96 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1451
Quote:

You know guy's the old record book polor bear was killed with a 270 Win and a factory 130 gr broze point.I wouldn't pick a 25 cal myself but with proper shot placement and bullet construction it will work.Just won't have the knock-down power as a larger diameter bullet.The bigger the bullet the more energy is deposited.




A gun that was "too small" with a bullet that was "not only standard, but fast expanding-not deep penetrating"


Maybe shot placement DOES work after all.

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#790683 - 05/07/06 11:02 AM Re: 25 06, or even 257 roberts on elk?
mowzer Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 958
Loc: Seattle,WA
The smallest cartrdge I have ever killed elk with was the 270WSM but it was only 50 yards away and a bang flop neck shot with 140 grain Failsafe which penciled through the neck. It was a smallish cow too. I had about 3 seconds to get off the shot. My brother shot a larger cow with same cartridge and we had to track it for several miles even though it was terminally wounded in the vitals. The next year (this year) we traded those rifles in for 30-06's. And we will be shooting 180 grain Nosler Partitions, or possibly 168 TXS. I agree that bullet diameter is meaningfull. Personally, I now put my minium at 30-06. But I have absolutely nothing against those that select smaller, less capable cartridges as thats a personal choice we are all entitled to. I feel that it best to be equipped with something that will perform with less than ideal shot positioning with bone breaking capacity. Ideally, my personal favorite is the 338 WM for elk. Every one I have shot with it went nowhere fast. The shock that cartridge provides is devastating even compared to the 30-06. Right now my philosophy is that I only have time to get real competent with one rifle, so I've elected the 30-06 for both deer and elk and anything else I will hunt. I believe in developing intimacy with your rifle no matter what cartridge you select. I will say that in my elk hunting life I have had very few shots like on TV where they wait and wait for just the right moment for that easy broadside shot right behind the shoulder. My experience is that the window of opportunity has always closed very fast and one needs to be prepared for fast decision making and knowing where to place shots at different angles......and having a gun and shooter that can pull it off without a hitch. The only shots I have ever passed on were either too far away (rare) or not enough time in the clear, or lastly elk going straight away with only butt showing

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