Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game 50% only stops the growth.

""A 50-percent elimination of the existing wolf population would only stop the growth rate of game and livestock depredation. According to Mech, it would take the elimination of 70-percent, or more, of existing wolf numbers, with the wolf population held at that level for at least five years, before wildlife populations would begin to rebound.


Does MT FWP Lack The Ability To Control Wolf Populations - Or Is Their Plan To Allow Wolves To Destroy Elk Herds?

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At present, that cannot be accomplished, mainly because MT FWP has absolutely no idea how many wolves are in the state. They continue to throw out artificially low wolf population estimates, with the real number of wolves in Montana likely two or three times greater.""

FWP is a real bunch of asshats and the situation is spiraling our of control... with the bears as well.

http://www.lobowatch.com/adminclient/WolfControl3/go

If I remember correctly the Feds and bunny huggers wanted ten breeding pairs in Yellowstone and were suppose to cap the wolf population at 1500 or so. You see where that went don't you.

When they re-introduced the saw tooth pack there were 13 breeding pairs IIRC.

Very logical... and honest of them...

The sky is falling.

Call it what you will... undeniably the ungulate populations are way down due to increased predator stress and numbers.

When we have a pack that split and formed 2 packs within 25 miles of where I'm typing this you gotta ask what are the numbers really ... and how can they not negatively affect the herds?

I took the information from the site you recommended I read to keep up to date on what's really going on...?

Do you not agree with the information they posted?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._Mt_Lion_s_kill_2_radio_coll#Post6595094

You seriously didn't recognize this as sarcasm? Holy [bleep]. Now that's funny.

The wolves will eat the elk, soon then all the deer, once the cloven hooved beasts are gone they'll be eating the pets, then the children. It's science.

Fair enough...guys like me tend to believe everything on the internet. We hardly ever listen to science or even better yet old geezers who were literally born and raised here. They hardly have anything to compare things with.

Better me than canis lupis, I'll be back after I go shoot my dogs.

Litter size is often density dependent among territorial species, and a 50% take might still foster population growth among wolves.

Agreed.

Seen enough to know the populations are adversely being affected. Yet there are those who say they are fine and all is well. Are we in the haydays of the 80-90's no not even... We are in a downward spiral. Much of which is Canis Lupis results. Yeah the bears and cats take their share but I've seen too many resutls of sport killings and practice sessions to be that ignorant.

Why is 2/3ds of MT at or over objective according to the elk management plan? If you killed 100% of the wolves, bears and cats you still need to reduce the elk population to meet the EMP goals for "social tolerance".

I've seen enough to know that Helena is far more destructive than canis lupis.

It's easier to blame it on wolves. Specially when guys are throwing their elk tag in the garbage. mtmuley

I've been staying out of the wolf debates lately because they're pointless and never go anywhere, but must say the elk "objective" numbers don't seem to mean as much as they used to. The elk don't seem to leave the valley floors in recent years, at least where I'm from. There's plenty of elk, but all on private land where nobody lets you hunt, especially in the Bitterroot.

I just got done with a 60-ish mile pack trip, jumping back and forth between ID and MT in the Selway. I didn't see a single elk or deer. Lots of goats though. Once I got back in the bottom driving out I started seeing elk. There is a decent herd near Trader Bros right now. Another good herd on the private ranch where the Elk Meadows road hits HWY 12. I saw several elk off Salish Road between Kootenai and McCalla Creeks. I don't even want to talk about the number of elk on the Burnt Fork Ranch, especially near their hay fields.

Not saying the cause of that is the dogs. I'm just saying that because herd objectives are met or even exceeded doesn't mean that there isn't a problem.

I agree the numbers have to be taken differently these days in certain areas. I know the area you just described extremely well. Those elk don't stay where you can't kill them all the time. The Bitterroot is an interesting area, where private landowner herds have as much to do with the objective numbers increasing as the wolves do with forcing them to the valley floor in the first place. Once the herds occupy say, the Burnt Fork Ranch, or the CB to the South, they become almost untouchable, but are still counted in the overall objective. But, like I said, they get to where you can kill them. mtmuley

Yep, I was just learning to hunt them differently in the Bitterroot when I got transferred here.

Here's the last 3 Montana elk I killed, all immediately adjacent to private land.
Died within 30 yards of the private land fence.


Died within 200 yards of the private land fence.


Died within 200 yards of the private land fence. I probably could have got him out in one piece, but the closest public road was probably 1/2 mile away and my critters were not a 15 minute drive away.


I must confess...It was nice to get elk out in one piece. The cow I killed last year here in WY was about 6 miles from a road, and my horses are still in MT. That sucked.

Sometimes you gotta adapt. I've killed a Bitterrot bull every year except for one (had a Breaks tag that year) since 1999 when I moved home. My daughter and I both drew a 261 Elk B this year. Full freezer I'm thinkin. mtmuley

Many have been noting that one of the biggest issues in the last 10 years is the persistent drought. Elk will go to where they have food, water and a place to hide. Private land typically offers great food and water opportunities. Further, they are less likely to be pressured by trucks and four-wheelers as they would on NF. Every hunter will tell you when asking for tips is to "get off the roads", we'll that's just what the elk are doing.

Habitat, drought, toothy critters, management plans are all factors. When more people start realizing that we will see numbers rebound.

Not in the Bitterroot in my recent years' experience.

But that's where I've found my bulls, off the roads. mtmuley

They don't hang out where the public has easy access. The CB Ranch is a great example of why it isn't the wolves. There's 22,000 acres of land that for the most part doesn't allow the public, and very little ATV use. Wolves are encouraged to live there though. The owner likes to take long distance tours and the city slickers love looking at the wolves with spotters.

Why is there 1200 elk here if the wolves are the problem?

What was the number prior?