Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Is it just me? Am I the only one?

This reloading "hobby" is getting too frustrating...

Am I chasing a rainbow?

Lets all be honest here, Do your factory rifles with good hunting scopes (lupy 2.5x8), consistently shoot MOA, or even less?

Notice I said consistently, here's my frustration.

Every now and then, I'm able to shoot a 5 shot group that makes me smile all the way home, like two weeks ago, 58 grains of H4350 and a 150 TSX,

Today that load was just very mediocre. This happens to me too often.

I have three different powders, several different bullets, I change the distance to the lands yada yada...

As I sit here staring at a pile of the last 30 targets, I realize that overall I average an HONEST 1.25" at 100, then 2.25" to 2.75" at 200 yards.

You guys that post a single pic of a .875 group. You doing that more often than not? or just showing the day the Gods were good to you?

I can post a group from about month ago, that would have won a big fat Cuban cigar, but I haven't been able to duplicate that group again, ( but I'm not about to tell you that).

Is it just me?

Chasing bugholes is Madness....I need to bang steel.

[bleep] targets and bench shooting, that's for anal retentive Yankees.

Very few rifles shoot 1/2 groups! Everybody talks about it most couldn't do it if the rifle was capable.

Go bang steel. Sounds like that's more youre forte. You and scott can buddy up on them

Kenneth,

Banging steel can sure help relieve the sub-MOA blues.

One of the problems with handloading for hunting rifles and expecting benchrest results is that most hunting handloaders don't shoot with benchrest techniques. Even if they do all the anal-retentive stuff to their loads (sort and/or uniform the brass, test for concentricity, etc.), they usually don't test their scopes for parallax, put out wind flags, use a truly steady rest, or make sure every detail of their shooting technique is consistent from shot to shot.

To be honest, I'd be amazed if somebody's factory deer rifle consistently grouped 5 rounds under an inch without the use of wind flags.

MD
This post is spot on, actually highlighted the last part due to it being totally true. The wind is not your friend when shooting groups. I mean a little puff at the wrong time hurts.



I believe that with a little work, most factory rifles are capable of 3/4" or better, its the driver that mucks up the works.

I actually do hang orange tape from the targets,,,

It's the parallax I often wonder about. Crank a 2.5x8 to 8 and look through it, I swear I can see some movement...

How would I test for parallex? Can this be an issue at 200/300 yards?

Ken,

Your OP raises lots of questions regarding your situation and results. I would have to start at the start and take a look at the rifle (if you have not already done so), scope next (mount a different one), all the way down the line to the concentricity of your loads.

What rifle are you loading for? Though a factory hunting rifle, with good compenents and loading technique you should be able to find a combo that goes MOA or better for 3 shots. I could care less about 5 shot groups unless I'm building bechrest or varmint rig.

Bedding, trigger, measure/sort for case neck concentricity, concentricity after seating?, how have yo developed your loads. What have or haven't you done to get you to where you are now?

Winchester 30'06. Rifle is bedded, trigger is fine @2 1/2#. Scope is fine

I don't/won't go into runout and other such brainfreeze procedures, no chrono either. You shouldn't need a wheelbarrow to get all your gear to the bench, somewhere the fun is being lost here.

If I can't make 2-5 shot groups look outstanding one weekend to the next, what the hell is 3 shots telling me?

I think my point is, I don't believe most factory rifles can deliver moa day in and day out,I know I can't.

I think that most hunters are too concerned with "groups". If you are a target shooting competitor, that's one thing that may be important. I also realize that being concerned with how tight your rifle groups is an indication of how good your equipment/load combo really is as well.

The most important thing for a hunting rifle is for its cold bore shot to be dead nuts accurate and predictable.

Take your best load that you have developed and do this test. Go to the range, put up a sheet of paper at your sight-in range, and shoot one shot with your rifle that has been previously sighted-in

Put your rifle back in the truck and retrieve the target.

Repeat for as many days possible on the same target until you have a "group" of nothing but cold bore shots. They will tell you something about your load and equipment

If you are satisfied, go hunt and shoot and be happy.
If you aren't, tweak the load or improve the equipment as you see necessary

When you do this and it works out, it gives you great confidence in what you have and are able to expect in the field

Check the link in my sig for the answer.
For me, it is the chase, that's interesting.

That may be an issue. Even sporter rifles can tell the difference. I've blind tested it on a friend of mine using Lake City match 308 ammo I sorted by runout.

Paul I did check out your link. looks like some honest info, as I was saying, most of your loads seem to be well over an inch too, and you also admit having just plain crappy days.

That's the type of day I had, with two differnt rifles.

I know it can't be me, as I'm perfect grin, so I'm ordering a new barrel. Might be here just in time for Christmas.

Have you checked the Classified section here Rick ? Tons of rifles for sale everyday that shoot 1/2 groups there....

Mathman, I could go full blown loonie, but really, a Factory rifle, sporter barrel, hunting scope?

All I really need to do is make Vension go Toes up. Maybe it's time for a Bench Gun, 10+ pounds,Heavy #4 barrel..

Fun when you actually do get little bitty groups, which then gives you confidence to slay Steel at 500.

The minute they cross Wisconsin state lines, apparently the barrels become cold stressed or something...effectively voiding all previous claims.

True story.

It's been interesting and fun with that Remington Classic to say the least. It's temepermental, reminds me of a woman.

Good luck.

Kenneth,

Maybe you can fire a good group now and them. I average the different groups with different components and go with the best I can do.

Recently I have fired some very impressive groups from my hunting rifle. It was a Savage .223 heavy barrel. My daughter, who is a grandmother now, wanted to use it for hunting deer. I replaced the barrel with a light weight 22" take off barrel and used it myself for one season. She never used it so I had a Midway 24" .257 diameter barrel cut to .257 Weatherby and changed the bolt head. Now the story begins.

After deciding I want to use 71.1 grains of IMR7828 by some shooting I then loaded up three of each with different primers: Federal 215, CCI250, CCI BR-2, and WLRM primers. Before I went to the range the barrel was cleaned with wipe out and then a couple of foulers fired through it. I took the loads to the range each morning while it was cool and there was no wind to verify which primer I want to use. You will see three bragging size groups. Here's what happened at 100 yards for three shots.
7/16/13 (full length resized Weatherby brass)
215 - 23/32", 250 - 5/16", BR-2 - 3/4", Win 15/16"

7/17/13 (necked sized Weatherby brass)
215 - 3/8", 250 - 1 3/8", BR-2 - 3/8", Win - 1 1/2"

7/18/13 (necked sized mixed brass Norma and Weatherby by mistake)
215 - 1 1/32", 250 - 2 1/8", BR-2 - 1 1/4", Win - 3/4"

7/19/13 (necked sized mixed brass Norma and Weatherby by mistake)
215 - 7/8", 250 - 1 3/16", BR-2 - 2", Win - 9/16"

Averages:
215 - 3/4", 250 - 1.25", BR-2 - 1.093", Win - .936"

The first time I went to the range I fired from left to right. The next time from right to left and then the next time left to right and then right to left on the targets.

Maybe the barrel needs to be cleaned again before I sight it in for 300 yards. Tomorrow if the Lord wills, before I clean it, I will try one more group each with the Federal 215 and WLRM, and two groups with Federal 215 MATCH primers I found.

I seriously wonder if a good shooter were to fire this rifle would he get lots more sub 3/4" groups. If there is a Southern Oregon guy who wants to give it a try, you are invited. Really requested!

I find it hard for me to keep it together for five shots. That's why I shoot three shot groups.

Go to a bench rest club and ask for some pointers on how to shoot from a bench. You will be amazed at what you will learn. Wind flags are a must if you are really trying to stack bullets.

I also find it easier to shoot little groups with a scope of 14x or more with parallax adjustment and with a gun that weighs 8+ pounds.

Then you must have a good trigger, ammo, rest, etc. And then some days I still can't get it together. On those days I shoot steel.

I still believe the most important thing is you must burn a lot of primers, powder and bullet to be able to consistently shoot little groups.

Dink