|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273 |
Math likes to talk about titties and beer, too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,600 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,600 Likes: 2 |
Mathman and I have several things in common, titties, good beer, rifles, good looks...
But that fricken Algebra crap, isolating that last varible,,sumbish. He can have it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189 |
Kudos, mathman! Statistical analysis can actually tell us things of value. I didn't reach a high level of mathematics, but I did take masters-level statistics, and then promptly forgot most of it. Thank you for reminding me that I can put it to good use (doing something I enjoy).
Average handgun accuracy would have been good enough for more than half the shots I've made on game animals. But, I'm hoping to take it to the next level, and with my handloads the last year or so reflect that. My goal: to be able to make 600 yd cross-canyon shot. I doubt I'll develop the skill to be a true long-range shooter, but I want to be able to shoot effectively in the 50-600 yd range. I marvel at you guys who do this regularly.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,167
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,167 |
I don't/won't go into runout and other such brainfreeze procedures, no chrono either. You shouldn't need a wheelbarrow to get all your gear to the bench, somewhere the fun is being lost here. Do you even roll your loaded rounds across a flat surface to see if your bullets wobble? If you don't know how concentric your ammo is, how do you know you are getting repeatably straight ammo? If you aren't getting repeatably straight ammo your occasional 1/2" groups are mere luck. Without a chrono, how do you know how consistent your loads are from one shot to the next? On one hand you complain that you can't get consistency in your shots...on the next you say that you refuse to take the steps necessary to ensure consistency in your groups because that is too much gear and not fun. I would advise you choose which is fun...toting less to the range or shooting small groups. I think my point is, I don't believe most factory rifles can deliver moa day in and day out,I know I can't. There is probably a lot of truth in that. I think you would be surprised what most factory rifles can do nowadays when they are fed concentric ammo. I thought I was a pretty decent handloader but struggled with some of your issues..."how is it I can't get repeatable accuracy? I sorted my cases by weight...I sorted my bullets by weight...what gives???" Then I bought a runout guage, a bullet comparator and a chronograph. If you want consistency, you have to nitpick the details. If you just want to kill stuff, load up a bunch of your ammo, sight in and bang steel--you will have much more fun if you don't sweat the groups. There's a lot of truth in this post. If you want to shoot small groups then you've gotta take the steps required to do it, there aren't any short cuts. If you just want to fling lead because bench shooting is for anal retentive Yankees then that's okay too, just don't bitch that your rifle doesn't shoot as well as you want. I don't believe that most factory sporters are 1 MOA rifles, even fed good handloads. I just don't see them, everybody claims they've got them but they can't seem to do it when I'm looking. Now a heavy barreled savage or occasionally Remington, yea, most will do under 1 MOA when fed good handloads. The limiting factor in my opinion is the crap barrels the factories use. Pull the junk barrel on most factory rifles and put a good one on there, even without straightening the action, and the rifle can generally be made to shoot if it's fed straight ammo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,048 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,048 Likes: 6 |
Kenneth, After pissing myself off worrying over groups since the day I began reloading, I've kind of taken a more practical approach with my hunting rigs. LIke a lot of guys here, I like to find a load, and quit shooting off the bench at 100, (I shoot at 100 occasionally to check zero, however), and get out into some field type positions. One thing I've begun measuring in addition to "group size" is just how close each of my shots lands to POA..... because, for all intensive purposes, this is the ONLY THING that matters for hunting rifles, in my point of view. I don't plan on shooting a tidy little 3 shot group on a buck, but I would like to punch it's shoulders as many times as it takes for it to die quickly. For example, I shot this target this morning, with my rifle rested on my Badlands 2200 and a field rear bag. The "group" itself isn't real impressive, measuring about 3.5", but the distance that each shot landed from POA is very reassuring to me. I'd call it good enough for any hunting I'll do with this cartridge. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m545/Tanner_Coulter/null_zps84567d4d.jpg) Once I have found a good load and verified the guns shoots decent groups, I shoot mostly from field positions. My goal is to hit within 3 inches of point of aim. Of course, this means I'm trying to shoot 6 inch groups or smaller, but that doesn't sound very sexy, does it? I figure if I'm 3 inches off I will still kill every big game animal I shoot at and almost every small game animal as well. People look at me funny the first time they come shooting with me and ask what kind of groups I get. 6 inches or less I tell them. When they shoot my way they start to see the value in a 6 inch group.
Don't just be a survivor, be a competitor.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Guess I've had some lucky factory rigs. Go check the hated Tikka threads and see the suck groups posted. This schit aint as complicated as most believe it to be. Some people just caint shoot......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Kenneth, One thing I've begun measuring in addition to "group size" is just how close each of my shots lands to POA... For example, I shot this target this morning, with my rifle rested on my Badlands 2200 and a field rear bag. The "group" itself isn't real impressive, measuring about 3.5", but the distance that each shot landed from POA is very reassuring to me. I'd call it good enough for any hunting I'll do with this cartridge. I'd say that's very good.  ...off a pack and in the hills with a sporter weight rifle. With shooting like that, game simply does not get away.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Sorry dude..... ![[Linked Image]](http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx210/16bore/150ablr3355_zps9f161172.jpg) Me thinks 150 ABLR's are the real deal.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Sorry dude..... Me thinks 150 ABLR's are the real deal. So I noticed in another thread...  270's shooting 150's into knot holes is a common happening...I have done exactly that with 150 and 130 Partitions as well I was noting that Tanner's group is pretty good over a pack at 460 yards. I notice yours was fired at 100,I think. But it's looking to me like those 150 LRAB's are shooting well for you. Good!
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
T Man's got skills. I was more impressed with the dang BC more than anything on these ABLR's.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273 |
Looks like them bullets are the real deal. That's good news for us that load for our brother's 270s... 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Purely scientific research.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273 |
Poke them into some flesh and spill your guts!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
T Man's got skills. I was more impressed with the dang BC more than anything on these ABLR's. Tanner does indeed have skills ....I could tell you were impressed with the 150 LRAB....I'm pretty impressed myself that they proved up to be pretty much spot on. Thanks for your work.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,275
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,275 |
Hmmm, maybe MD could chime in on parallax for our OP?
This could only help I'm guessing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,600 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,600 Likes: 2 |
I had asked about parallax earlier on, Maybe I need to look into that..
The irony, My Op was about consistency one weekend to the next, Last weekend I went out and shot some groups, at 300 yds, that would have won that fat Cuban cigar.
I knew the .300wizzum had the ability, but two weeks ago, I didn't.
Taking this weekend off to recharge.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 694
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 694 |
I had asked about parallax earlier on, Maybe I need to look into that.. This is very important, if you are chasing good groups. Most people think that adjusting parallax is basically like focusing a camera (for picture clarity). This is NOT the case, but it is hard, without seeing "parallax" to explain what it is. Basically, it is movement "inside" the scope, that can be detected visually (once you see/learn what you are looking for).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 697
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 697 |
I know that having good ammo can definitely make for small groups, however I know with me personally, if it has been a while since I have done any precision shooting my groups are definitely quite a bit larger.
I have come to the view that most modern rifles can out perform the shooter.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,600 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,600 Likes: 2 |
It's the parallax I often wonder about. Crank a 2.5x8 to 8 and look through it, I swear I can see some movement...
You were saying something about movement?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,967 Likes: 74
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,967 Likes: 74 |
If your scope has an adjustable objective or a side focus, set your rifle up on the bench and aim at the target. The rifle must be still and solid on a rear bag so that you can put the crosshair on a dot or line and actually leave it there when you take your hands off of the rifle. Focus the adjustment for clarity, then move your head slightly from side to side and up and down while carefully looking at the crosshairs in the scope and its position on the dot or aimpoint.
If the crosshair appears to move off of the aimpoint as you move your head slightly, you have not adjusted the parallax out of the scope.
Make minor adjustments to the focus knob until the crosshair remains right on the aimpoint as you move your eye in the box slightly.
If you have a scope that has no focus adjustment, you can still do the moving thing to check for parallax
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
|
|
|
|
|
574 members (1lessdog, 12344mag, 10gaugeman, 06hunter59, 1234, 10Glocks, 57 invisible),
9,999
guests, and
1,112
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,195,354
Posts18,546,719
Members74,060
| |
Most Online21,066
May 26th, 2024
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://s1131.photobucket.com/user/Tanner_Coulter/media/null_zps84567d4d.jpg.html)
