Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting Have you ever noticed this?

The debate between mechanicals and fixed blades has been made more clear to me this weekend. Several of my friends and I have been preparing for the bear hunting season and this topic came up.

I realized that the guys that have come here from the Eastern USA, and the guys here that have only ever bow hunted deer are all strongly in favor of expandable broad heads.

The folks that lived in Montana, Alaska, and myself hunting much of my life in Alaska and Africa do not like them at all.

It seemed to me that when the White Tail, black tail and even the Mule deer to a lesser extent are the primary focus of the hunter the expandable seems to be a good sound option.

For those who hunt other game and often much bigger or threatening game, expandable heads don't get any consideration. Maybe this is just my circle of friends and acquaintances in archery. But it was an interesting observation this weekend.

I have not seen a geographically influenced opinion on mechanicals vs fixed. I know lots of guys that live in the mechanicals camp and hunt bear, elk, moose, and ect with them.

What I have noticed is that the more experianced archers (note I said archers and not hunters) tend to lean more to fixed blades. I believe this is because they know how to tune their bows and how to shoot. The guys that are not serious archers tend to lean to mechanicals for no better reason then easy use, screw on and shoot.

There really is no good reason to shoot mechanicals.

I'll take the side that either work. I've got over 30 P&Y animals (14 species) and have bow shot well over 100 animals from NA (20 species) and some more from Africa. I've used Bear Razorheads, Wasps, Savoras, Satellites, Zwickey Eskimos and Deltas..,all 4-blade, MA-3s with Schick Injectors glued on, Thunderheads, Rocky Mt Titaniums and Iron Heads and finally Ulmer Edge mechanicals for the last 2 critters. Accuracy and shot placement trump broadhead type in my experience. Both critters I shot with the UE were pass throughs (black bear and whitetail) with short recoveries. Ulmer Edge's definitely fly the best out of my Hoyt Carbon Element setup versus the fixed blade heads I've tried. The utilized the UE when bowhunting grizzlies this spring here in BC (no shot opportunities) and will hunt stone sheep later this month with them. I read about some really good Alaska hunters using them too....Bob Ameen and Frank Noska specifically, who are at the top rung of bowhunters and hunt more than deer. So overall, as the the mechanicals have improved, more of us really experienced hunters are using them and enjoying the superb flight characteristics and accuracy they offer. I bet there is a slow march toward mechanicals dominating the broadhead scene over the next decade. That said, fixed blades are excellent as well.

Mainly a deer hunter and have used mechanicals, but I hunt to hard to even chance a potential failure of a mechanical. See no real reason to switch from a fixed blade.

ps: Love Slick Tricks

I can only comment on the guys I hunt with in the Catskills in NY - we all use fixed - in fact, most of us use the Muzzy 3 blade. We are hunters, and target shoot for fun. We don't consider ourselves serious-as-a-heart-attack archers.

Kurt,

I posted a similar reply about 2 years ago about mechanicals.

There have been a lot of things over the years that have had piles of Nay sayers when new ideas have been brought out. Electronic game calls, were said to have a frequency that was not natural and therefore would never work.

Compound bows, too were ridiculed and laughed at. Probably the most debated product that was new to the market was the original Barnes X bullet. I hated that bullet and was disgusted each time one of my hunters showed up with them.

Yet today with the evolution to the Barnes TSX, they are the only bullet I shoot at big game. I actually said I would not be using a mechanical head, because the price paid to do the prototype experimentation was not something I wanted to be involved with.

I'm not ready to jump on the mechanical wagon today, maybe not for a while. However as with most effort and development in these things. Eventually they will become a functional product.

Heck, Even the slick trick when it was first introduced was laughed at. Those tiny little puny heads were a laughing stock among most serious and experienced archers. Had I not been given a set as a pro staffer many years ago, I would have been very slow to migrate.

As it was they were so unbelievable accurate and deadly, I have not used anything since. I'm not a mechanical guy, but I do believe that they are here to stay. At the point they become legal in all the states, the development will be sound and they will likely be a good dependable well accepted choice.

Well I disagree, I know the newest ones are better, but I've seen more than a few failures of mechanicals over the years. Couple of mine, one for my wife, and a few for others on a big bow lease we hunted on for many years.

After that, I'd never touch one again regardless. Fixed just plain still work. And I've no issues trailing a bit furhter if need be.

Would be nice to know what brands mechanicals are theoretically unable to fail, and if the track record behind them agrees.

After a double lung on a buck years ago, where the wasp remained closed even after it broke off and was laying in teh dirt, that took from 9am till dark to recover that deer... I said never ever again.

Rost not seeing what you disagreed with me on that you quoted my post???????

I have run Muzzy, Thunderhead and Slick Tricks. Been over joyed with them all. But Slick Tricks are my fav. Last year I tried the Rage 100gr. Had a deer jump the string and turn a slam dunk shot into a questionable hit. Without the large cutting area of the Rage, i would not have gotten that deer. My hunting buddy killed 5 last year with the Rage. No problems at all. Will I shoot them this year? Dont know. If I shoot a mech it will probably be the Ulmer Edge or the offering from Slick Trick. If fixed blade, Slick Trick 100gr, mag.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's geography but more of a philosophy stand point. I've lived all over so I can't really claim any geographical point as home but mostly it's been east of the Mississippi River. Of course from the handle you've probably pegged me fairly as a long bow guy and you'd be correct. To me, it's fixed, heavy, two blades and maybe a bleeder here and there. I will run a carbon arrow though just for the pure longevity and economics. It boils down to trust. I know that when that arrow leaves the shelf that without a doubt the blades are already cutting the air and if I do my part, spilling blood. Anything mechanical can and will fail.

In my line of work there are a lot of products seen but the hunters in camp each year. During this time myself and many of the other PH's have come to dislike the mechanicals over all.

Last year a PH friend of mine who may be the most anti Mechanical guy in RSA called called me to catch up and chat about hunters I booked for him to take. It was a group of four as I recall. They all showed with Mechanicals. I still remember the text message from him saying something sarcastic and rude ( funny) about sending him this group.

Some time after that hunt I ran into him. He went on and on about the amazing performance and how his opinion is completely changed on mechanicals. His raving about knocked me off my rocker. How could this 100% anti Mechanical very experience archery savvy PH have been swayed from four hunts?

I still remember the words, these animals were easier to track then a gun, and most were dead sooner then when shot with bullets! All these hunters used Grim Reapers. This was not my personal experience, but that of one of my most trusted and knowledgeable PH's I know. I did not go out and buy these to use myself, but ...... if I felt the need to use mechanicals his opinion would lead to that purchase.

Any of you guys use these? what did you all think about them?

I could try the rage as the leading edge of the razors don't have an angle forward which can snag high grass in flight. For the same reason I would not shoot the grim reaper. I have known people (and seen one on TV) who had the leading prongs catch in tall grass and the arrow will nose dive down. Murphy is always looking for me as opposed to those who are more lucky.

(I just saw blondey on TV. The big bull followed the cow into the shooting lane right in front of her and stopped broadside while he sniffed the cow in front of him. The cow stood at twenty yards and watched her reach forward to adjust her sight, then the bull turned his head away from her as she raised and drew her bow while the cow stood there as if saying, "hurry girl and shoot that Bastid", which she did. All I can figure is tame elk. That would never happen with me.)

Anyway, I have seen instances where a mechanical opens at the shot and things go haywire. The 4 blade Muzzies kill quicker than the three blade rocket mechanicals I had plenty of pass throughs with and I don't have to worry about a blade opening.

I am not enthused about a two blade head. To my way of thinking, at some time the cut will be made parallel to a major vessel rather than across it. I know what a good fixed blade will do to a direct hit the point of a tough shoulder or to a hip hit. I just can't see the long skinny blades busting through, though they might.

I know that with a recurve years ago it wasnt a good idea to hit a big elk in the shoulder with even a razor head.

Muzzy or slick trick is good enough for me and I don't have to shoot a head costing $15/ pop.

I like the old muzzy 90 gr 4 blade - 6 for $28.

I use both on deer, but I always seem to be far more impressed by the short trails and ridiculous amounts of blood with expandables.

I like Slick Trick, Magnus, and TH as well, but they never even come close to spewing blood like an expandable. In a bad hit situation, I'll take an expandable every time.

That said, I'm speaking of deer. Can't seem to warm up to archery hunting larger game. I personally prefer to carry bang sticks on bigger critters.

Too many fires, not enough sleep, I shoudl have been agreeing totally.

Have no other explanation. My apologies. Some days I'm in a haze and hurry at the same time.

Jeff

No worries Jeff, I thought I was missing something.

I have no problem with expandables, but other than their tendency to shoot like a field point from an untuned bow, fixed blades have every advantage. If a hunter doesn't want to take the effort to make sure how and where their broadhead shoots, expandables are the ticket.

Pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.

I'd say that's a pretty good reason.

That is one way to look at it. Better yet would be to learn to shoot, set-up, and tune your bow. After all you owe it to the game being hunted.

Right? But the reality of it is that I have been tracking other peoples animals for 30 years and I would rather trail one double-lunged with a blunt, then shot in the kidney with the baddest broadhead.

No, I personally don't know anyone who shoots expandables at all. The few people I know who do use them live in states out west where they tell me they like the ability of the expandable to do well in wind at long distances. That's just what they tell me.

Never suffered a MB failure, never used 'em, started with the old Thunderheads, progressed through Wasp, Muzzy, and now the 125 gr G5 Striker Magnum.

I do my part, they have ALL most certainly did there's.

Gunner

I have been told if your bow shoots 270 FPS or under stick with fixed bladed broad heads. If over switch to the mechanicals. My bow shoots in the 290's so I went with grim reapers. I have friends who say wonderful things about them. But at forty yards where my target arrows are hitting the bulls eyes the grim reaper practice head turns my arrows in the air and strike 18 inches to the left of target. Does this consistently. So now, looking for something else. Considering trying fixed blades and seeing how well those work.

So...don't shoot "target arrows".

That's really not bad advice. I bet I haven't shot a field point in over thirty years.

I'm from the East and doubt very seriously if I ever shoot a mechanical head again. I'm still shooting the old style Bear broad heads. That is all I ever practice with too.
I have enough of them that folks just gave me when the "bigger and better" broadhead craze started that I doubt I will ever run out of em.

If you want a broad head that will fly perfect without any tuning adjustment or effort to fly straight,

Slick trick magnums.

They will fly straight and consistent even if your using a tree branch with grocery store twine for a bow.

Check the blades on the practice head, that's a lot of shift for a tuned bow, at any speed. I "dinged" the tip of a G-5 Montec, and thought it was just a minor ding, but it threw that arrow off every shot by 6 inches from the others in the quiver.

The Slick Trick route cures a lot of problems.

18" difference in POI between a FP and a mech head of same weight? You have issues because while not unheard of it is uncommon for mech heads to "windplane". Especially that much. Not taking a stab at your intelligence, but the broad heads and field points are of the same weight? Did you spin test the broadheads? Are any blades opening during flight? Usually with mechs it doesnt matter but it certainly doesnt hurt to align fletching with blades. Are you running straight, offset, or helical fletching? Curious as to why you are getting the results you are

The grim reaper practice mechanical they give is basically fused and can't open. The bow has been laser tuned and on the money with my target tips. I realize it sounds bizarre. I go believe it's the shape of it that causes the twisting.

Laser tuned??? Only thing a laser can do is verify center shot. I wont hijack JJs thread to discuss this. But I would like to start a new one.

My bow is perfectly tuned and will group fixed head and field tips dead on top of each other. So I find this notion that people who use mech heads are idiots that cannot tune a bow a little offensive because it is certainly not always the case.

I do not work in a pro shop but I am set up with the equipment to do my own bow work. Over the years word has gotten out that I can set your bow up for you and many friends, family and people who know them have come to me to set up a bow for them. Can't put a number on how many I have tuned for people in my 47 years of life but it's been a lot. Here's why I bring that up. I HAVE SEEN JUST AS MANY PEOPLE USING FIXED HEAD BROADHEADS WHOSE BOWS WHERE NOT TUNED AS I HAVE MECHANICAL HEAD USERS! These people had merely moved their sights to match where the broadheads were impacting rather than tuning their bow so that field tips and broadheads grouped together.

If you guys consider the people who screw on a mech head to cover for an untuned bow to be morons then what does that make the ones who just move their sights to cover for an untuned bow? But you never seem to hear about those people online. Nope, doesn't fit the narrative that fixed head users like to spew online that makes them seem smarter, better bow hunters and just you know, greater people in general. LOL! Trust me, no side in this debate has a monopoly on dumbasses.

More horse pucky.

1. They cut a bigger hole. If my bow has the power to consistently blow a 1 3/4 or even 2 inch wide expandable through an animal then please tell me what is the advantage of dropping back to a 1 inch wide fixed head? So I can bury my arrow 3 inches deep in the ground on the other side of him rather than just 2 inches deep? How does that help? The bigger hole will yield a better blood trail; is less likely to be plugged by fat or other materials and stop bleeding; and is more likely to nick something lethal on a less than perfect shot.

2. Mech heads fly like field tips. That's different than just tuned to group with field tips. They "FLY" like field tips. A minor glitch in form from wearing bulky clothes in cold weather or from leaning out around a limb or kneeling down in your treestand may only throw a field tip off a couple of inches at 40 yards but a fixed head? Who knows. They are problem amplifiers. A glitch in form that throws a field tip 2 inches off target at 40 is likely to throw a fixed head off 4 times as much. One of those is still a dead deer. The other? Ehh, who knows.

Now to be fair fixed heads typically have an advantage in penetration. And if your bow doesn't have the power to use mech heads than by all means stick with a fixed head. But to say that there is no potential advantage to a mech head is just dead wrong.

Grim Reapers are what I use as well. Over the last 4 years I have watched every animal I shot with one fall in sight of my tree. Blood trails, although not needed, could have been followed at a fast trot. Fantastic broadhead.

@280Ackleyrized, The bow shop I take my bow to tunes it by locking it in vice with a arrow in the CAD rest. The laser goes up and down the string, across the arrow and arrow rest, lines up with sights and limbs and cams. Once they have it all adjusted, they're done. It shoots fantastic with target arrows no porpoising or fishtailing. Smooth straight shots. My bow for some reason just shoots the grim-reaper practice head way off to the left at 40 yards. The shop doesn't know why that would happen. I am going to let them try and see how it works for them. The bow I got is Matthews Heli m and I get great accuracy with it on my block target. I have a 7 point Truglo sights and I can hit that box consistently at 90 yards for fun with target points.

Something isnt right. But to keep from hijacking JJs thread, i have a new thread concerning broadhead tuning. Id like to help figure out whats going on with your setup. But lets discuss it further there. Besides something that answers a question someone else may have could be brought out

It's about cutting blood vessels... math... 2 blade, 2" rage cuts 2 inches. 4 blade, 1 1/8" slick trick cuts 2 1/4 inchs. Penetration and toughness goes to the ST.

If broadheads impact different than FTs because of shooting form... you have a spine issue.

Kent

Recheck your math with a 3 blade Grim Reaper WT special that opens to 2 inches vs your 1 1/8 slick trick. Most expandable broadheads aren't two blades.

The regular GR is 1 3/8, so 2 1/16 cutting edge total.

The WT edition specifies HG bows/ white tail size animals... which is an admission of penetration loss.

As the distance stretches and/or the animal size increases penetration is an increasing factor of tissue cut.

Kent