Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 6.5x57 Mauser??'s

Been looking at the idea of buying one of the Zastava M70 6.5x57 Mausers made in Serbia from K-Var, and had a couple questions.

Quality? anyone shooting any of these guns? Are they as well built as a CZ 550? They don't look as well finished as the CZ in the "Pig Back" euro styled stock, but the pics are terrible for detail both on the KVar site and on the Zastava factory site....however they are for sure an 8 twist 24" barrel according to the metric conversions from the factory data.

Anyone shooting a 6.5x57 Mauser in one of these guns or any other? How close or different are they from a 6.5Swede or 260 or 6.5x284 performance wise?

Where do I find brass to reload, or is this a makeover from some other cartridge...since I could not find a source today even 4 pages deep in Google, after trying the usual suspects first from Graff & Midway to Natchez & Midsouth for factory reloadable brass. Found some Forum traffic that said Rbt's brass was doable but a tad short? where? and was surprised to see 6MM Rem brass mentioned as a potential donor?

Saw a reference to S&B brass being difficult to reload with bigtime bad tight primer pockets, but Privi & S&B loaded ammo is cheap enough IF it's any good at all under $20 box from several sources and may be the only way to get factory brass since RWS stuff is non existent it seems despite being referenced as the brass that was used in the Hornady manual. Thanks for the comments.
Ron

same brass as 7x57, 6mm remington, .257 roberts. pretty much same performance as 6.5 swede.

Ballistic twin to the 6.5x55. Been around since the turn of last century so the pressures are low in comparison to the .260 & 6.5x284.

The 8" twist would be real nice for using the long vld type & mono metal bullets becoming popular.

IMO, having worked on more than a few of the Zastava actions, they are better than the ones they made for Charles Daly. On par with the late model Interarms Mk X which they also made. I used a recent Zastava action for my .416 Ruger build.

No need to "make" brass from anything, it is readily available. And while brass can be made for the cases mentioned, the shoulder location & angles do differ. Shoulder is further forward than the 7x57/.257 & 6mm.

Both Prvi & S&B sell ammo inexpensive enough to harvest for brass. The Prvi ammo shots quite well too.

I use the Prvi brass in my boy's 6.5-.257 to avoid confusion with the Roberts.

I own both the swede and the 57. Currently I am using Privi brass and they are doing fine. I also bought 3 boxes of Privi ammo and then started reloading the brass. I have now reloaded the brass for the 3rd time and no problems yet. 120g Sierra Pro hunters groups around 1 moa at 3000fps with no pressure signs. 140g Interlocks groups slightly better. My rifle is an original Mauser sporting rifle (the 6.5x57 was not chambered in military rifles) and shoots quite well without too much load development. Cannot answer you on the quality of the rifles you are looking at. Probably a smarter idea to go with the swede as performance is so to say the same and you have more choices in both rifles and brass. The 6.5x57 quite different though and very capable.

(I am not sure whether I should be a gun writer to reply in this section but thought I can share my experience with the cartridge as there are not many 6.5x57 owners out there)

Pieter

The 6.5 x 57 is my favorite cartridge... this from a guy who also owns 260s and 6.5 x 55s....

If nothing else I like it because it isn't that common stateside here and being a handloader, I don't have to worry about finding ammo for it...

mine is on a Model 70 Long Action, I use it more for target shooting that hunting... because I put a 28 inch barrel on it with a heavy magnum contour.. with a one in 8 twist from Pac Nor.

I won't list velocity potential as the usual suspects will immediately show up and start giving me flak for all their usual reasons... but testing it against a 6.5/06 and an Ackley version, I didn't have the need to punch it out to that cartridge...

for brass, I neck up 257 Roberts with a Winchester head stamp on it... I don't shoot a 257 Roberts first off and secondly Win brass has thinner side walls than Remington's does, so it holds more powder...

Kevin Wyatt ( of Wyatt's Magazine Box fame) built it for me.. between that and the Pac Nor barrel quality, it is one of my accurate rifles...

just neck up the 257 Roberts Brass and there ya go...

I mainly neck size it and then use a 7 x 57 die to bump the shoulder back when need to..

I typically shoot 100 to 142 grain bullets out of mine...and it has done well out to 1000 yds... it can shoot better than I can..

OK, You guys experiences are pretty much what I had expected to find. ..and not surprising on the Privi ammo. The S&B ammo is in a supposed'ly new 131 gr'er thats a tad faster and $3-$4 spendy'er at Graf's.

I'm starting to run a really nice SAKO M85 260 Hunter Grade that I would like to keep as pristine as possible as a "Sunday Go to Meeting" shooter, and wanted to look at the idea of one of these 6.5x57's & like the euro styled "pig back" stock I can't get in a CZ anymore 'cept in a 20.5" barreled FullStock... A. to replace the T3 HG Swede I traded on the SAKO, and B. mebbe later have it rechambered to an AI or mebbe a 6.5'06 if I wasn't satisfied with the MV's or had a brass sourcing issues etc etc before it got totally rehabbed into something else. Good to hear about the acceptable quality for upgrading or a build. Thanks All
Ron

I have one in a Steyr ProHunter. Very accurate rifle, sub MOA with loads it likes. Better to get the correct brass, the 257,7X57, etc brass has a different shoulder and will not work without fire forming by just necking up or down. Brass is available, I use RWS brass and it is outstanding. Huntington's normally stocks it. It is expensive, but lasts a long time and is very consistent. Performance wise one can get about 50 to 100fps more than the 6.5X55, it holds a couple more grains of powder. Same bullet weights etc as the Swede. It is a Long Action cartridge. The 260 pretty much taps out at 130g bullets. The 6.5X57 can use the full range all the way to 165g (original Barnes bullets) In my deer load I use 130g Accubonds. Not a big kicker, several first year hunters have used this rifle successfully. The Steyr has removable spacers on the butt plate. Easy to get it right for the young ones. With correct bullets, I would not hesitate to use the 6.5X57 for Elk or Moose.

Always expected to fireform in non standard brass, as per an AI too.

Good to know about Huntington's. Most of the time I was in Google I was looking for RWS brass, even in the euro website and never saw reloadable brass any where. Now got a pile of places in Ireland & the SWest of England I always wanted to see when we were over there I can go get ammo from though ...if I ever get back across the Pond. LOL!
Ron

Interesting thread. I just picked up one of these exact rifles back in early July. They are serviceable out of the box but do not have the fit and finish of some other manufacturers. Then again, for less than $550, I consider them to be a good value. There are lots of good Mauser 'smiths out there who can fine tune things and a sizable selection of after-market parts for the Interarms MK X/Zastava M70.

I'm not planning on modifying this rifle too much but I have ordered a B&C Medalist stock, replaced the trigger with a Recknagel unit, and will use a QD EAW-style scope mounts. Still debating what kind of glass to top it off with.

Have a 6.5x57 barrel for my Sauer Model 200. Working on load development now. LIke the cartridge. Think it might be a tad faster than my 6.5x55. Didn't buy it for that. It came with a Sauer 200 package with a 9.3x62 and both sets of dies. Saved a bunch of $$...

The Huntington's tip paid off, with x57 RWS brass in stock albeit a bit spendier than Lapua in Swede brass at almost double...but it is headstamped correctly in gooder than WW 7x57 thats been squished down. So I guess if you count the expense of fireforming sumthin even in a Privi bullet with leftover powder it might work out to be close to the same for my Hebrew/Scottish cheaparsed soul's satisfaction.

The surprise was that Redding & Forster both make 6.5x57 dies at reasonable rates @ EAB's considering the upgrade in quality of the die sets ...and Huntington's RCBS prices were not
competitive.

PGuy, what are you gonna do with the left over Zastava stock...keep me in mind if you want to get rid of it and we'll work something out on compensation when the time comes as I am in no hurry but always looking for usuable stuff to go into future projects.

Now I gotta sell something to fund this deal and get it started.
Cheers Ya'll
Ron

There is a Swede Mauser for sale in my area that has been
rechambered to 6.5x57mm.

That would be interesting, are you sure it was re-chambered? The Swede while shorter is larger in diameter than the 6.5X57 I don't think a 6.5X57 would cleanup a 6.5X55 chamber. I could also be wrong about this...

Huntington's normally stock RWS in the popular European calibers, but yes it is costly. I bought them out a couple of years ago when it was only not cheap. I have the Redding dies. No real tips or anything, there is nothing special about the 6.5X57 for reloading or load development that I know of. They do seem to be long in the throat compared to US chambering's.

The barrel is stamped 6.5X57MM, havent really looked at it
real close. It will probably sit for a long time.

If it is a '96 Swede, with an original barrel then it would be stepped around the area between the action and the rear sight. Sights would be another thing, no sights or not stepped would be a new barrel.

Fire one a couple of times and you'll understand while it is for sale...

6.5 x 55 brass is a little wider down by the web than other 57 mm chamberings... so when you fire a 6.5 x 57 with any case, you'll notice a very dangerous bulge just above the rim....

I looked into doing that and was warned by the gunsmith, who refused the job....

SeaFire, Oh really? Thanks for the heads Up.

However, was this caution on a regular 6.5x57 or the 6.5x57Rimmed? Dunno why but I could come closer to understanding the poor web design caveat on the Rimmed version, it just seems like a very Old Style low pressure deal to me kinda like a 30-30...and just one of the drawbacks of the 30-30 for me....plus the Military design of the 7x57 originated in 1895.

It was my understanding in reading the Hornady 7th Edition Manual writeup on page 314, the 6.5x57 Mauser, the round in question here & NOT the Rimmed version, was derived from the standard military version of a 7x57 design, and simply necked down with almost the same dimensions as the 7mm. I cannot imagine a weak web issue not being widely ID'd as a severe fault to stay away from, but this is the 1st I've heard of it. But then I have not messed with any of these old German metrics to any degree before, except to shoot some milsurp 7's & 8's back when I could buy a Good One for $29.95 thru the mail out of Shotgun News with no paperwork back before GCA'68.

The Hornady 7th goes on to mention the Rimmed x57 and cautions the need to drop back on the max powder levels shown in the Manual that were developed using a modern Mauser 66, by 10-15% and then still be concerned with pressure levels & evidence of pressure signs in the brass.

IMO the 6.5x57 Zastava I'm looking at might be bargain though, with it's 8 twist barrel @ under $600 NIB Shipped & Insured price and used for a cheap ready made 6.5x'06 donor conversion if in truth and in fact the weak web issue is a for solid and certain a problem hangup that does not allow modern pressures....and well worth looking into. For me anyway it ain't quite time to call ITD and discuss it though.
Ron

Ron,

When I purchased my 6.5x57 several yrs ago, I just used starting loads for the 6.5x55 and worked up. (I used factory RWS brass...)

If you're considering necking down 7x57 brass, I believe it can be done. Altho' the neck angle is different. I would only neck down NEW brass.

I recall Ken Waters writing about rechambering a 7x57 to 7x64 and the problems he had. He stated that many 7x57s have a larger diameter chamber at the rear. He said that his re-chambered rifle had a noticable bulge at the rear of the case. This is why I suggest that you use ONLY new brass. Once fired brass from a 7x57 may not be able to be resized small enough in your dies to chamber.

The above is merely a cautionary suggestion...

GH

I read that the issue is re-chambering a Swede 6.5X55 to 6.5X57. The 6.5X55 is .480 at the base before the rim. The 6.5X57 is .468. It is going to stretch. The issue as I know it with resizing the 7X57 to 6.5X57 is the neck position. Again it will most likely stretch. That will occur just before the rim.

Actually, the problem with trying to rechamber a 7x57 to something like a 280 or 7x64 is not so much with the rear (base) of the cartridge but the neck. the 7x57 has a larger chamber (and cartridge)neck of about .324" vs .315" or so for the .280 & 7x64. The .280 is not long enough to clean up the old chamber neck and you end up with a stepped neck.

+1 on smithrjd. You have 0.012" extra at the base of the case. This would allow the x57 round brass to stretch more than it would in a chamber designed for it. You would prematurely wear out the brass at that location and run the risk of case separation. I had thought about it at one point, then did the math and realized I didn't want to take that risk. Then I found a Model 200 barrel in 6.5x57 for a deal so I snagged it.

Ohhh Kay...sounds like in order to get MO Speed I can only look at mebbe AI'ing the factory 6.5x57 chamber...or going ahead with rebarreling something to get what I want....or Just Leave It ALONE as is and enjoy what it has to offer.

Typical of my cheaparsed approach to try to step into a sumthin that won't really work as E A S Y as it 1st appeared. Oh Well.
Thanks All
Ron

Sir:

Perhaps my ancient memory has failed me. You are likely correct... I do remember that Ken Waters' 'smith advised setting the barrel back. And the above was likely the reason. Thank you for clarifying that issue...

GH

All of the mis matched chamber info was for 6.5x55 to 57 (larger base)or the 7mm to .280 (larger neck). As far as I can tell no problem going from 6.5x57 to 6.5-06. Do a chamber cast to check though.

Also look at the .260 AAR and 6.5x.257AI haven't shot one but handled one from Ackley's shop. AAR stands for all around rifle and even PO Ackley said might as well call it that as it should work. He compared it favorably to even the big magnums saying it was about ideal "bore capacity" for powders available back then,
whatever bore capacity means.

Agreed, that a rechamber is not a good idea due to case head size. The irony here is that for many years, US made 6.5 brass had a case head size of .470" as it was made from '06 brass.

Heck, even Today Hornady shows their 9,3x62 brass as having a base diameter of .470" when it should be .476".

You too are probably right. Depending on your reference, case head sizes are listed as different measurements. Some will list a case at .468" while others cite .470". This often causes a lot of confusion. I will look at reamer specs to see what the chamber size is also when considering any rechambering operation.

Just checked and there is a neck diameter difference 6.5x57 is .301 and 6.5-06 A-square is .299. So there would be a .002 step in the neck unless you set the barrel back about 6mm which is a lot. Other option is a custom reamer with the .301 neck. Guarantees you would need bushing or custom dies.

Another reference said the 6.5x65 Brenneke is designed to clean up the 57mm chamber. Since there is only about 200 fps between all of these it seems like esoterica deluxe with pretty obscure brass to boot for not much difference in velocity. Base size of all three is basically the same.

The 65 will clean up a 6.5x57 chamber but not a 6.5x55. the 6.5x55 case head is .480"ish while the 6.5x65 is only .476".

Tejano, are you looking at reamer specs or case drawings?

Bushing dies? Std dies will still resize just fine down to original specs, your chamber neck will just be sloppier than I prefer.

I always verify with a chamber cast before attempting any rechamber job because what something is supposed to be and what it really is are often two different things.

Chamber specs but from different sources. Couldn't find both from the same reamer source but they should be available.
Case neck dia. is almost the same .2961-.2969 for the 57mm to .297 for the .06.

Most of the difference is the thicker RWS brass. Probably be fine with the extra thickness of necking down 06 cases but necking up .25 caliber cases would probably be a poor fit.

6.5x65 RWS can use .270win cases sized in one pass is my understanding. That would be the way to go if dies are not in the custom class price range ( ie cost half as much as the rifle).

Better yet would be to use 9,3x62 brass, the parent of the 6.5x65.

I have an extra sizing die here somewhere. I forgot I had one and ordered another. A senior moment, lol.

Even thought all should be to a "standard" dimension, there seems to be a lot of variance. In the 6.5X55 I used Norma and Lapua brass, very much different from US 6.5X55 brass. In my 9.3X62 I use Lapua brass and I had to modify a standard 30-06 shell holder a bit so it would fit, even thought the recommended shell holder is said to be same as the 30-06. I would guess that different reamer sources (US or Europe) might have some differences as well. At least the 6.5X57 brass seems uniform, all of it is from Europe as far as I know.

Sent an EMail to ITD earlier today outlining some of these questions about doing a 6.5 '06 off a 6.5x57 Zastava and what are the issues they'll have to address. Haven't heard anything back so far, but it is a Friday afternoon anyway. I'm sure it'll be interesting to hear their take on this subject. Ya'll have a good weekend.
Ron

I would think that the 6.5-06 should clean up a 6.5X57 chamber with no issues. No diameter or length issues, and the bolt head should be the same as well. Should be enough length difference to take care of any shoulder position problems as well.

Assuming that ITD, or some where else, can do the 6.5x'06 chamber conversion ...and mebbe an AI at the same time...where do I find load info for the AI without a chrony? or enough info to determine whether or not an AI is worth the investment to only get a gain of 100fps or less.

At the price of RWS 6.5x57 brass running about $1.45 per round from Huntington's...the conversion may pay for itself pretty quickly by using domestic brass.
Ron

FYI: The 6.5-06 has been around for ever. Was the reamer made as a standard by it's maker before ASquare had it standardised via SAAMI?

I have a reamer made by Clymer. I think when I bought it they had their prints online, and the neck diamiter and throat were the same as on their 6.5x55 Swede. I have no idea how these spec are different from the 6.5-06 ASquare. I'd have to measure my reamer. I'd have a chamber cast done, and let them check their reamer if the case head to end-of-neck length dictates it to cleanup your chamber.

The SAMMI and CIP spec on these old rounds like the 7x57 and the 6.5x57 are often quite generous. When they originated it was often uch harder to maintain manufacturing spec, and thus by modern standards they are "over engineered." Case making procedures were also less developed. So, "over engineer."

Just my thoughts as a basement gunplumber.