Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why has the 358 Win not faired as well as 35 Rem

Why with all the love for the 35 Rem has the 358 Win not faired half as well?
To me it is what the 35 Rem wants to be when it grows up. Heck I also wonder about the lack of warm feelings for the 35 Whelen too. But for as many folks who hunt timber to med range fields, I just don't understand why it did not fair better over the years. Maybe it was the lack of bear in most parts these last 60 yrs that help to hurt it.
Also I'm bored, slamming some IPA's and babbling.

I often wonder the same thing, I was in PA about 3 years ago and
stopped at a little gunshop and spotted 3 Browning Abolts in 358WIN on the shelf, some kind of limited run from Grice's.
I talked to one of the clerks and he said nobody paid much
attention to them and they had them on the shelf for quite some
time.

Any good reason one of them didn't come home with you at the time?

Much better deer rounds abound and deer hunting covers a good majority of hunting people do.

Never been fond of Abolts, nothing against them, not bad guns,
but I have my heart set on a Ruger M77RS carbine 358. Owned
one once and sold it.

Good man!

I love my .358, but it has limitations on range (though not as much as some think, especially with 200 gr TSX or a good 225 gr bullet loaded stoutly from a bolt action) and may be considered too big by some for deer when a .308, .260 or many other rounds work perfectly fine with less kick and flatter trajectory. Speed is king to many, but my .358 thumps pretty hard and nothing has gone too far after being hit including African plains game, elk, hogs, etc. I'm good with it out to about 300-350 yards, but it ain't a long range sniper rifle.

I had it built just because I wanted one. A .35 Whelen, .350 Rem mag, .338-06, .338 Win, etc are better choices for most folks who want to go over .30.

I too am a fan of the 358 Win. And I concur that animals that I have shot with it have made very few tracks. It is IMO a very underrated unappreciated cartridge.

I think the reason it was never as popular as the 35 Rem is that first of all it was never offered in the slick handling pump and lever rifles that buyers in this class were looking for. The lever action Win 88 that it was offered in was not everyone's cup of tea and bolt action fans had higher speeds and flatter trajectories in mind than the 358 offered.

I think the .35 Rem got a jump because it had about near a 50 year head start...

But the great thing about the .35s is they ruin a lot less meat... And that means something to me. As I couldn't care less about the horns. I'm only interested in game as a food source...

I've had 2-3 358s & 1 35 W.

I liked the BLR 358s better than the S 99, that particular model. I never met anyone else with either, 358 or 35 W.

Yes the 358 has better range than many/most think. It's much better than the 35 R or 30-30 IMO. I think too many people don't give the 358 it's due.

I think the 35 W, which I like a lot, is TOO MUCH for most deer hunting and those who hunt larger game want longer range.

RECOIL is noticeable w/the Whelen. Even here on the fire many don't want that much!

I wouldn't mind owning another Whelen even tho I don't need it.

I think it is the 50 year head start.

The 358 recoil is not a real issue, my teenage son and daughters used my 358 BLR with no problems. I liked it as being the best compromise elk gun for youngsters.

I think the 35 Remington's success when measured against the 348 Win, 33 Win, and 35 Win, is more notable. Against them it was the Remington's ability to function in semi-auto weapons that won the day. We forget how popular the semi-auto 35 was with LEO. If I remember right Frank Hammer used one when they got Bonnie and Clyde.

I use both, and truly love my T/C Carbine in 35 Remington as a walk about rifle.

I believe a large part of the success of the .35 Remington was the fact it was offered in the Marlin 336. The Marlin is a well made blued steel/walnut rifle that is priced within the reach of most hunters. The .358 on the other hand was chambered in rifles that cost more than the Marlin, also the timing of the .358's introduction came when other new cartridges offered what shooters at the time were looking for. The Winchester 88 due to having a fair amount of drop in the buttstock made the recoil of the .358 particularly with the 250gr. bullet more than most hunters cared for. I have owned .358's and .35 Whelen's, the .358 offers Whelen like performance in a short action. With a rifle having a well designed stock and a quality recoil pad, the .358 with bullets from 200-225gr. is a fine round and deserves its place in the deer woods. A Ruger M/77 International with the mannlicher stock would be my choice if I were to have another .358, probably rebore a .308 as I'm unsure whether Ruger offered that model in .358.

Factory loads costing $55+ per box don't help a damn bit.

Got a Ruger Frontier in this fall's lineup, but the idea of a matched pair of BLRs in .22/250 and .358 has tickled me for a long time...

I agree

Jr. can still find a decent Marlin at Billy Bob's for under $400 already equipped with a Tasco rifle scope.

Rifle nuts are in the minority amongst the many that hit the deer woods every season.

358 Win is not needed to exterminate a deer and if Jr. thinks he needs more than the Marlin his next one is a 7 Rem mag.

The only thing wrong with my 358 BLR was it was just too pretty to take in the woods.

.35 Rem has been available at an affordable price point for a long time with the popular 336. .358 has been rarely chambered mainly bolt actions (BLR and 99 exceptions).

Ammo is more available and much less expensive in the .35 Rem.

For deer hunting in heavy woods where the ranges are 100 yards or less, the .358 Win offers no advantage over the .35 Rem in the 336 platform.

I think the 35 Rem has fared better because: the popular/available 336, available/affordable ammo, and excellent performance at the ranges most commonly used.

Ive often wondered about why the 358 win , especially in the BLR lever action carbine or in some other carbine length bolt action was not MUCH more popular.
My late hunting partner used a 358 BLR for most of his elk and deer hunts and never for a minute felt it was any disadvantage.
THE FACT IS THAT IN THE STEEP CANYON COUNTRY IVE USUALLY HUNTED EVEN SEEING AN elk PAST 200 YARDS IS RARE!
THIS IS A PICTURE OF THE AREA I HUNT FREQUENTLY FOR ELK, its easily a 3 hour walk out on each trip once you shoot an elk

I have used, and several other members of my elk hunt camp use, a browning blr in caliber 358 win and the same ammo formula for decades.
(250 speer over 44 grains of IMR 4064 and a 215 fed primer)
I sighted it in 3.5" high at 100 yards, so its dead on at 200 yards and 10" low at 300 yards 30 plus years ago, and I check it several times a year and its never changed, its point of impact.
and yes its very effective on both deer and elk.
my late hunting partner used a similar combo as his primary elk rifle for 30 plus years and always laughed at me for carrying my 340 wby, because In 30 plus years, I doubt either of us shot deer or elk at over 250 yards on any hunt, because we never saw one past that range!Im always amazed at how infrequently Ive needed that potential flat trajectory.
obviously having a rifle with a flat trajectory becomes much more important if you can,t accurately judge ranges or tend to have most of your shoots at longer ranges.
but lets look at two fairly different cartridges
my late hunting partner thought the 358 win in his BLR was the ultimate ELK combo, he sighted in at 3.5" high at 100 yards, that gave this trajectory
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2300 -1.5 0
50 2206 1.91 0
100 2118 3.53
150 2031 3.21
200 1947 0.76
250 1865 -3.98
300 1785 -11.24
350 1708 -21.23
400 1634 -34.2
450 1563 -50.42
500 1494 -70.21

IVE preferred to use my 340 wby resulting in this trajectory
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2900 -1.5 0
50 2790 1.53
100 2688 3.46
150 2588 4.16
200 2491 3.57
250 2396 1.56
300 2303 -1.96
350 2213 -7.12
400 2124 -14.07
450 2037 -22.96
500 1953 -33.93

obviously the 340 shoots incredibly flat compared to the 358 win
but the advantage is almost non-existent in that neither of us over a period of almost 30 years of hunting together almost every year had shots at elk over 250 yards
when you compare the trajectory's out to the max range we regularly saw elk and shot at elk, the advantage drops off to almost a non-issue.

just place the shot from your 358 win with a 250 speer in the light green area in the diagram to destroy the arteries over the heart and your elk or deer drops almost 80% of the time and few make 10 yards...TRY IT YOU MIGHT BE AMAZED AT HOW MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE YOUR RIFLE IS

The big problem with the .358 (and other "woods cartridges", even if they're effective beyond 100 or even 200 yards) is that most people don't just hunt in one place anymore, and want versatility. Those that do mostly hunt deer, and a Marlin 336 .35 Remington works just fine at less cost than a .358.

Then there's "premium" bullets. Those who don't just hunt whitetails in their home state have gotten used to buying better bullets for hunting elk, moose, bears, etc. With a flatter-shooting rifle and Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX's, there's no reason not to use the same rifle in the woods around home or Out West or wherever.

One piece of reality is that both the .358 Winchester and .35 Whelen appeared in times when most bullets were cup-and-core, so moderate velocities and heavier bullets worked more reliably, especially on bigger game. The same things can be done now with premium bullets of lighter weight and higher velocity. Yeah, both .35's can be used with premium bullets, but the few people who really need a 250-grain .35 caliber premium bullet for hunting big game are few and far between--and often choose something flatter-shooting, like the .338 Winchester Magnum or .375 H&H, again because they're more versatile.

This doesn't mean I dislike the .358 Winchester and .35 Whelen. I have one of each, but I hunt with them for fun and nostalgia, not because they're the best cartridges for any particular job.

I had a 358BLR for about 20 years.I probably shot more game with that rifle than any other I have owned.I have a couple Marlin 336`s in 35 Rem and one in 356 Win.They all shoot great with the 200 grain flex tip bullet.For woods hunting a 35 Rem is all you need and of course a 30/30 is just fine also.I had a Remington classic in 35 Whelen.It shot great,but never really excited me and went down the road.I really don`t know why the 358 never made the big time???

That right there is why i want one.