Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 44 MAG distance shooting

Have a S&W 629 6" , I'm considering using it for scoped distance shooting.
Before I blow $300 ( or more ) on scope and mount, I would like to know
just how much distance this thing is capable of. Has anybody here used
this gun for distance shooting ?

I have seen an unscoped 629 hit balloons at 100 yards. So I'm guessing with a good scope it will do small groups at mighty long ranges.

I witnessed a shooter hitting a rifle gong at 500 meters about 50% or more with an open sighted 6" M-29. The distance is determined by the shooters ability more than any other factor IMHO

I hit. 12x12 plate at 200 YDS once with my 8 3/8" barrel model 29. Lots of fun

Hot', everyone's definition of "distance" varies. I've got preconceived notions of what Maryland looks like (having never been there) and it doesn't lend itself to the wide-open, target laden artillery ranges like the desert West has.........refer to Mackay's posts for photos of such places. Anyway, assuming you're maybe restricted to a 200-300yd public range, I would forego a scope for now. If you've got truly poor eyesight then do what you have to do however.

IMO a 6" M29 is a mighty handy revolver, and mounting a scope on it will fug that up a lot. Spend the $300 on ammo or components to build ammo, and work on your distance skills. I think you'll be happier in the long run. My .02c.

Are you talking about hunting at long range, or long range target shooting?

Mechanincally a good 44 mag can be expected to produce 2 moa accuracy. If you really want to know what a good sixgun can do, work up loads from a solid rest off the bench and then practice at extended ranges.

While I personally don't care for how a scoped sixgun looks nor do I have any desire to pack one, I do know that I've always been able to shoot much better groups with a scoped sixgun than an iron sighted sixgun. Having the magnification to give you feedback on how unsteady your grip is and the added weight to settle the gun and absorb some of the recoil will more often than not improve your ability to hit at extended ranges.

The main limitation, as I see it, is that the .44 mag is NOT a long range cartridge, even in a rifle. Making hits at 200 - 300 yards (or more) would involve a heck of a lot of "Kentucky Windage", and the bullet would not have a lot of energy at those ranges. The .44 mag is a wonderful "close range" round, which as a pistol round, is what it was designed for. I shoot sub sonic loads with 335gr Hard Cast, ,and they are both accurate and deadly - out to about 75 yards. Full power loads, because of the limits of the cartridge and the blunt bullets, don't add a whole lot to that. Years ago, I used to hit 2 liter plastic "Coke" bottles at 75 yards with an open sighted Contender 10" barrel .44 mag fairly well - that is sorta "long range" for a .44 mag to me.

Everyone is giving you advice, so I'll just talk to your original question. Some years back I had a pair of identical 629s. One had a Leopold 2.5 and one had open sights. The scoped revolver was sighted in at 75 yards. The open sighted revolver was sighted in at 50.

The range I shot at had metal plates, 8" in diameter at distances from 75 yards, 100 yards, 150 yards and 200 yards. The plate diameter didn't change.

With the scoped revolver, after learning my bullet drop, I could easily make repeated shots easily out to 150 yards with nary a miss, and I considered this to be my max distance on whitetails, standing still on a windless day with a good, steady rest! Keep in mind, the drop was enough that I never actually tried it on a real live animal, because of the variance in body size being used to determine distance. With a range finder, I might have done it.

With the open sighted revolver, my hit ratio at 150 was considerably less. Even though the drop was the same, that 8" plate was mighty small. However, when I missed, the misses were pretty close - if you know what I mean.

The funny thing was, with the open sighted revolver, I could knock over bowling pins standing off hand at 75 yards 5 out of 6 times! Those 6" N Frames point like lasers and the single action let-off is wonderful.

Distance shooting is a lot of fun. A place I used to shoot had an old VW Beetle hood lid propped up against a tree at 300 yards. I found making 100% hits on it with my 1911A1 was easy if I aimed for a fork in the tree about 10 feet above it.

I have a 2-6X on mine and shoot 2-3" 100 yard groups off a rest. I believe I could easily kill whitetails at 150 yards, if I had a rest. Have shot one at 75 or so yards.

I am talking about 200yd target shooting. It is a 629-3 and came from S&W
already drilled and tapped. Mostly I want a fun new toy.

the 44 mag silhouette with adjustable front site and 10 5/8" barrel





it may not be popular but its incredibly accurate and I know a few dozen deer and hogs and an a couple elk regretted its introduction
the front sites got four independently adjustable heights allowing you to accurately zero the pistol at four different ranges each of the 4 front site positions on the 10 5/8" barrel S&W is INDIVIDUALLY adjustable and the front site height can be almost instantly swapped by spinning a selector wheel in the site base
Ive got mine set on
50 yards
100 yards
150 yards
200 yards
once you site in, its dead on at the range selected, I generally leave it set at 100 yards, its close enough to be used in 90% of my shots set like that

btw
you can get really close by sighting in to hit 1.5" high at 25 yards =100 yard zero
you can get really close by sighting in to hit 3.2" high at 25 yards =150 yard zero
you can get really close by sighting in to hit 5.3" high at 25 yards =200 yard zero

making a 300 yard shot off a good solid sitting positions not that difficult on a gallon paint can

watch this video if you think a properly loaded 44 mag won,t kill game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKTeEmNUkjw
my most effective load at long range is 20 grains of H-110 under a lyman 300 grain hard cast bullet sized .431 cast from 95% wheel weights and 5% tin by weight.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000152660650

I have a 10 1/2 inch barreled 44 mag Super Blackhawk and with target loads shooting off sand bags I can consistently hit a five gallon can at 100 yards. I used to shoot metallic silhouette and could hit ram sized targets at least half the time at 200 meters.

Most people underestimate what a good sixgun is capable of. I won't recomend using one for long range big game hunting. Bt if have a good sixgun, work up a good load, and practice at extended ranges, you'd be suprised how accurate the gun can be. If 1 1/2 moa for 3 shots is considered hunting rifle accuracy, a good sixgun is capable of such accuracy. One does need to learn about bullet drop, but once you learn wear to hold, hitting targets at extended range can be achieved repeatedly. The nice thing about the 44 is it kicks up enough dust to let you know where your misses land.

Just buy a QUALITY handgun optic/mount and have a blast!!!!

+1

Just ask Elmer Keith.

Mike,

I am taking by what you have posted that you have not done much longer range shooting with big bore handguns. Longer range in this case being 100,200,3,4,500 yards.

The statement that "the bullet would not have a lot of energy at those ranges" was a pretty good indicator of lack of practical experience.

That is ok and I am not trying to make fun of you or be impolite.

44 mag and 45 colt projectiles driven at typical velocities will penetrate one hell of a lot deeper than you would think.quite frankly, 200 yard shots require no "Kentucky windage" at all, just knowing the right amount of front sight to raise over the traditional sight picture.

I was just watching RJM make pretty consistent hits at double that distance last week, with his 4" gun. 200 yards is just a matter of practice.

Now with that said, you don't have to take a single word I have to say about the subject as gospel. Long before I was born, Elmer Keith was shooting his big bore sixguns at long distances and taking note of the deep penetration of the heavy projectiles. As I recall in one of his books he talked about shooting up an old cabin and the projectiles went clean through the cabin walls.

Ed Mcgivern was another early long range shooter that documented much of his work. The punch line is that a 44 or 45 driven at
moderate speeds will kill stuff dead as a doornail at long ranges.

The real issue is having the skills to precisely place the projectiles where they need to go. Like anything else, those skills can be acquired by methodical handloading and diligent practice.

Long range shooting is a hoot. I don't do it often enough and I don't shoot at animals at extended distances beyond my ability.

Rocks and steel targets are what I normally have my sights lined up on.

Cheers!

Shooting steel at 375 yards with the SBH. 240gr cast at about 1100 fps via Unique. Lots of fun.




I've pushed it out to 600+ yards or so with satisfying plinking accuracy. Easy to spot splashes in dry conditions, shooting toward the afternoon sun. Just a matter of figuring out how much to elevate that front sight.

The shorter barreled revolvers might have somewhat of an advantage over the long barrels since the shorter sight radius gives more upward angle per amount of front sight elevation.

You know your getting out there when you have the bottom of the base of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight....grin

Anyone who doubts the possibility of consistent, long range accuracy with a revolver need only visit a revolver silhouette match. The accuracy of the competitors on the 200 meter targets will eliminate most doubts.

Well said, you beat me to it.

That is a Great Picture M. Marine!

I like the smoke that is caught in the picture off to the right. Your last sentence is dead on too. I have a little .45 convertible BHawk that shoots very well with the ACP cylinder with factory ball ammo. I need to take it out on my next LR excursion. The front sight is rather tall and is an ideal candidate for a couple gold/brass colored horizontal bars.

Thanks,

I figured discussing the topic and a couple of well known historical shooters who have written about the subject in the past would be better than the usual dog pile that happens when someone says things of similar nature.

Besides, This way if Mikewriter does some research into the subject, and also reads up about Keith and McGivern, he will have a lot of great future material to write about.

BTW,

I have a used Leupold 2x scope that has been sitting in my safe for quite some time now, doing nothing. If you do decide to go the scope route over irons, PM me if you are interested.

I'm not trying to suck MM's dick, but having seen him shoot, that dude knows his way around a handgun.

He's decent with a rifle too... grin.


GFY,
Travis

PS- I was slinging lead at close to 100yds with the red dot yesterday. And I am kinda likin' the red dot setup....





Travis

I like it

9 or 40?

Not much to add, except long range handgunning is great fun. I first did it with a 1917, .45 Auto rims and 230 grain cast bullets going slowwwwww....great fun to watch them splash in to the muddy river bank as we fired at targets of opportunity out there 200-300 yards...surprisingly accurate once you got the trajectory doped out.

It's the fo' oh!


Travis

Mackay, no, I haven't tried shooting a .44 mag handgun at over 100 yards, much less 500. No need to do so. I also don't shoot my rifles much over 200 - not many places in my area with that much open space, in my defense. I do shoot a lot of .44 mag loads at under 100, though. I am very much aware of the killing power of a big, slow bullet - like a 335 gr hard cast .44 mag launched at under 1100fps. At the same time, such a bullet drops very quickly past 75 yards or so. It has too, physics won't let it not drop. I have a Ruger .44 mag carbine, and would not expect to do long range shooting in any serious manner with it, also. If just shooting for the fun of it, I suppose I can see the appeal, and the challenge. We just don't have open prairies and lot of hills and rocks here on the Texas Coast.

I am aware of Elmer Keith's contributions to the sport, but have always taken some of his feats with a grain of salt. The long range mule deer kill does make me wonder if the bullet would retain enough energy to shoot through both sides of the deer at that range, and this is from "researching" ballistics tables.

I love to shoot all sorts of handguns, have several .44 mags, from a SBH to Contenders, to a Contender with a suppressor and shoulder stock used strictly with subsonic rounds for hunting. I like the .44 mag round VERY much, but other than "target" shooting, would not try to use it for a job that a .270 or .300 mag rifle would be better suited for.

Just my opinion, ya'll can keep launching long range .44's, and I probably would, also, given the right terrain and some free time.

If you get the opportunity to try long range sixgunning, it'll open your eyes.

On a deer hunt several years back we were in a cabin on one side of a bay with the other side approximately 400yds distant.

I'd brought a box of plinking ammo for my 480 and would plink across the bay in the evenings. After I figured out the drop I was hitting a rusted out 55 gal drum.

I've seen a shooting buddy place all five shots from an FA 475 linebaugh on a 200 yd ram sillouette, and he was shooting offhand.

If you'd consider a 45 acp to have sufficient power to kill a deer within 50 yds, a 44 mag with a 240 gr cast bullet has the same power at 300yds, and the heavier cast bullets are better yet for extended ranges.

The way I look at it, you can never be too good of a shot. Practicing at extended ranges helps you at every range.

You are sadly mistaken if you believe that a 240 grain 44 mag bullet will not perform exactly as Elmer described at that distance.

I have a friend that dropped a wounded antelope at 600+ yards with a Remington 240 grain jacketed flat point. The guy that wounded the antelope wit a 25/06 would shoot after the pronghorn took off. My friend used a 6 1/2" M-29

I'm guessing you're from Texas?


Travis

mike, once those heavy slugs get moving--CHUG--they are difficult to stop...

some 30+ years ago, scenarshooter and i were firing .44 mags at a stump about 12 inches in diameter--it wasn't long range, only about 45-50 yards distant. being newer to the game, i thought that we were missing the stump (as the audible impacts in the wood at that close range were masked by the sound of firing), but when we went and looked, the pills had effortlessly plowed right on through...

this was a surprise to me back then. i've fired them through 14 inch doug fir logs, and they even went right on through the milk jugs behind the log, and then into the earthen backstop--CHUG X 2.

i don't know if this is factually correct, but years ago i once read that colonel charles askins (an experienced handgun shooter), when hearing of keith shooting big bore revolvers out at 600 yards, had supposedly said, "i'll stand out at 600 yards with a catchers mitt and catch those .44 pills in flight (ouch)...

if this statement is true--that he actually said that--it is truly remarkable, given askin's significant experience and knowledge of handguns. it may however, illustrate that he had little experience with big bores at extended ranges.

it can be fun to play the "long range game" with handguns on targets--just to see what a chap can do with any given rig--although in the field i don't advocate their use on game past about the 75 yard mark, though guys use them successfully at much farther ranges. i've got a shooting bud that can use a handgun out to 200 yards, much like a reasonable fellow will do with a hunting rifle--he has over 30 years of shooting experience in long range handgunning, and 35 years in disciplined bullseye shooting with handgun--the most gifted handgun shooter i've ever seen...

I used to shoot IHMSA at 200 w/ a .44 Mag often. I could hit about 5-7 out of 10 rams in Creedmore position. I wasn't the best at it but could regularly score 30-35 w/ a 4x Leupold. I could clean the chickens and the pigs but those damn turkeys at 150 would kill me.

Although sometimes fashionable among the "cool" kids, doubt Elmer at your own risk.

Less research, more shooting.

Elmer was a been there done that kinda guy who happened to write about his exploits.

Sadly many gun writers are writers who happen to go out and shoot and hunt on occasions.

I've been fortunate to have some shooting buddies who are exceptional shots with handguns so I know what a good handgun is capable of. I just need to put in the regular practice to be able to shoot to my guns ability.

If anyone doubts Elmer Keith (and they shouldn't), then they should take a look at Brian Pearce's article in "Handloader" a few years back where he duplicated Elmer Keith's 600 yard shot on a life-size mule deer target. Pearce used original Remington 44 Magnum factory ammunition and a pair of original, S&W pre-29 44 Magnums the same vintage as the revolver Keith used. Pearce was able to replicate Keith's shot repeatedly with that combination.

Bumping up another informative thread regarding the versatile .44 magnum

Great thread..

From my own experience - in shooting and killing hogs, not rocks - a heavy for caliber hard cast bullet in .44 mag, or .45 Colt, is destructive well beyond what "paper ballistics" indicate it should be. Yes, once those big, heavy bullets get moving, they take some doing to stop! More than once I've shot through and killed two feral hogs with one shot and did not recover the bullet. The .44 mag is far and away my favorite cartridge, but it cannot do EVERYTHING. I did read Elmer's book, Sixguns, and like Deflave said here once, if was not that easy or enjoyable to read. I read it often and closely enough to remember than even Elmer said of his "long range" handgun shooting that it was "stunt" shooting, and he described walking the shots in my holding great distances above the target. I am sure this is fun and challenging, but - again - mostly because of the topography where I live - it is not something I could do on a regular basis. I need to be aware of where my bullets might go, and what they might do when they get there - when shooting anything.

By the way, Elmer also bragged of killing hawks, great horned owls, even horses.

Mike

"...even horses." Like that's bad. LOL

How old are you? In Elmers day that was normal, hell when I was growing up hawks and owls were vermin and shot regularly.

Mackay shooting at 100 yards..2013...








Shooting 200-500 yards across the Mackay Reservoir





Me with 200 yard target...

60 yards for me on cardboard deer silhouettes stapled to a couple tomato stakes, 5" S&W smooth cylinder 629 44 mag, and a 10.5" barreled Ruger Super Blackhawk, both factory irons.

Both revolvers fired the 300 gr LBT WFNGC's, the Smith being a couple hundred fps slower than the Ruger.

JWP475 - I'm just a youngster - only 66. Not a tree hugger, but in all my years in the woods, there were critters I would not shoot, and birds of prey were high on the list. Just no reason. I disagree with a lot regarding Keith, but I'm a strange kind of guy - I don't like Glocks, and I don't own an AR. During my years of offshore fishing, including as a licensed charter captain, I was exposed to a lot of "fishermen's claims" - but I always carried a scale on my boat. I might be the only one on this forum who has shot a bunch of sharks with a .44 mag - but none at long range.

I really, really like handguns, but pretty much all of my shooting is connected to hunting - either sighting in or load development, if not actually hunting. I came close to buying a property last year that belonged to a couple who were both retired SWAT officers - the wife a sniper - and they had a 1,000 meter range on the property - would have certainly done some long range shooting had that deal gone through. By the way, those folks were getting out of LR rifle competition and going to skeet shooting, because of the difficulty of finding suitable ranges for meets.

Mike

Those heavy slugs penetrate like nobody's business! I just loaded up some 305 grain, wide meplat type loads, pushed by heavy doses of H110. I am going to sight in my 7.5" Redhawk with them.

Looking forward to RJM's next trip out here, so we can have a little more long range fun.

When it was legal we shot them, because they would take your chickens and they were high on my vermin list. We have too many now in my opinion and fewer squirrels than we had back in the day.

RJM set a target up on a ridge behind my cabin. It was a roughly 3'x3' piece of plywood, wired to T posts.

It was a lasered 780 yards from the porch. I watched as RJM repeatedly hit it with his .41 mag. At 780 yards the slugs went clean through and still had enough energy to bury themselves in the very hard, dry hillside.

Just for kicks, I gave it a go with my Glock 21, .45ACP. Wind was an issue, but I managed to drop one into (and right through) the target, with that first magazine.


A few things I noted from that exercise:

* Heavier projectiles were easier to spot, as they kicked up more dust.

* Having a light crimp, while not very noticeable in closer range accuracy, makes a huge difference for consistent long range accuracy. RJM had noted some variances in my loads/impacts, and suggested a Lee crimp die, with a heavy roll crimp. I took his sage advice and it made a world of difference. Now I apply the same heavier crimp to even the meager .38 Special, and it has made a significant difference.


* Shooting double action (due to requiring a more consistent grip) would often produce more consistent groups at extended ranges.

In re-reading some of Elmer's stuff, as well as McGivern's,a crimp was discussed,and it was noted that a heavy crimp was important.

McGivern used to actually load handloads (or have his assistants do so) at exhibition shoots, so as he noted the "Doubting Thomas" types could see that there were no tricks.


Speaking of McGivern, since it was noted previously in the thread that Keith's shooting was "taken with a grain of salt", here is a pic from an original copy of "Fast and Fancy Revolver shooting.":

This is a pic of a 500 yard man sized target hit 4 out of 6 times by a shooter from Montana, using a Smith .357 Magnum.





The punchline is that:

* Revolvers/handguns are FAR more capable than most have any idea about.

Handgun projectiles driven at even moderate velocities will kill/penetrate FAR better than people tend to believe or "know".


Last but not least is that you don't want RJM shooting at you, even at nearly 800 yards, with one of his .41s.

I forgot to mention, due to a change in eyesight, and the resultant blurry front sights (getting old sucks), I am going to be doing some more experimenting using red dot sights for extended range shooting.

That might have to wait until there is a lot less snow.

Yep its amazing what a 44mag and 45 colt can do in experienced hands. If your eyes are good enough, no scope or optics needed. Now days I would have trouble with the Rams at 200 yds without optics. So do what you need with it is the best advice I can give you.

Well maybe one more tip. Do not brace a 629 against your leg from a prone position. That cylinder gap will slice your new bluejeans and leg like a scalpel on firing.

Yup,

If you take a look at the pics RJM posted, you can see the blackened knee area of my blue jeans, from shooting in the braced position, with the revolver between the knees.

Mike, Elmer didn't brag of killing hawks, owls, and feral horses.. That was a way of life before the yuppies screwed up wildlife laws..I remember those times, and participated in some of it.. We had lots of game and few predators. Now we have lots of hawks, owls , wolves and little game.. You are talking about a man from a different time and way of life.. They were much better than the green crap we endure today!

If you look at pictures of IHMSA revolver competitors, almost all of them use(d) a leather or leather/kevlar blast shield to preserve their pants and protect their legs. I made one out of five layers of leather glued and riveted together and I can shoot a 40 round match with no pain at all.

That's three strikes.

You're out.




Travis

780 yard target in Mackay's "backyard"....





Looking at the cabin from the target...





From the cabin to the target...






The rock to the 2 o'clock position is what we shot at before I hauled the plywood up...

Glock 21 vs. Target....he had to aim at a passing cloud to get enough elevation...





Long walk up the hill....





Mackay and Kimber looking for bullets...





Kids always find the bullets...




Bullet splash right in front of the target...

What once was a clean target...




Mackay's .45 hole is the oblong hole near the center...it intersected with one of my .41s... I was on the 75X power potting scope when he fired. Saw the dirt kick up behind the target so I knew the round was on target...




Me and "The Kid"...





Bullet on the left is a 240 grain Lyman Round Nose that went through the upper right corner of the target, hit the T-post and was laying on the ground about 6' to the left of the target...just a lucky find. The other is the 255 Cast Performance WFN-GC that Kimber found.




Mackay mentioned his crimp problem. When he was shooting his .44 loads the velocities were so inconsistent that the bullets were hitting in a 200'+ vertical dispersion....yet he hit the 100 yard gong no problem.

..can hardly wait to be able to do this again.....

Bob

Mackay/ RJM,

In a pic above, one of you is holding a blue 5" S&W N frame with a fiber optic front sight. I've always heard and believed that such a sight would be difficult for use in long range shooting. Please share your experience. How did that work?

Edited to add:

Also, RJM, you mention that you were shooting a 255 gr WFNGC. Again and again I have read that the WFN profile isn't stable at long distance. That evidently is not your experience. At what velocity are you pushing those? If you loaded them down, do you think they would remain stable?

The Cast Performance round is 22.0 grains of H110 from a 6" FA 653.

BC approximately .225

According to the Hornady ballistic calculator:

Muzzle velocity: Actual is 1450+- fps
Velocity at 800: 707 fps

Muzzle energy: 1190
Energy at 800: 283

Holding dead on the target with the bottom of the blade at the top of the rear notch the height above the line of sight at 450 yards would be in the area of 360" or 30'....

So getting hit by one of these rounds at 800 would be like getting shot by a Charter Arms .44 Special Bulldog at point blank range... 240 grain bullet at 750 fps...300 foot pounds of energy......

That was Mackay's...and yes it isn't the best sight for long range work... I'm sure Mackay will expand on that...

Bob

What other cartridges have y'all used for long long plinking. Just curious.

Now that is pretty neat, good job on it! The day I boo-booed, there was some guys practicing with Contender pistols on gongs at 200 yds. They were bracing by placing them against thier leg. Not thinking, I laid down and did the same thing. I bled like a stuck hog from a cut about 2" long as clean as a scalpel would make. Jeans had a matching slice in them. My first thought was I had somehow shot myself. Valuable lesson learned (the hardway as usual. )

I just had .41s with me:
4" 57
6" FA 654
4.25" FA 97
5.5" Gary Reeder
5.5" USFA Clements .41 Special

At 800 I only shot the 57 and FA. The loads from the 57 4" were only going 950 fps....when they arrived at 800 only around 550 fps. Had to hold 1/2 the barrel up into the rear sight notch to hit at that range. Midrange trajectory is about 50'.

I've only seen Mackay shoot his 4" and 5" 29s and the Glock 21 that one day...

.38 Special the 40 S&W and of course the e'speciale.

To the 250 anyway.




Travis

W-W...none of my bullets had any problem staying stable out at 800 yards... I only used three at 800 which were:

255 LBT at 1450

240 Lyman Round Nose at 1450

210 Berry's plated at 950.

Also have shot Keiths out to 500.

As to how low a velocity one can go with a given bullet, twist rate and gun...not really sure... Just have to try it and find out.

A football goes a long way if it is initially stabilized...my belief is if a handgun bullet is stable and accurate at 50 it will make it out as far as practical.

I've seen Flave shoot and I can only say I wish I was as rock solid as Iceman...

He put three or four out of six on a gallon jug DA with my .41 S&W Mountain Gun...at 100 yards...standing.

That was sober.

You should see me when I've been drinking.




Clark

I would agree with this.




Dave

I like moderate loads for distance shooting in the 44's and 45's. Lower recoil helps when it takes a cylinder or two to get on target

For under 300 meters my favorite is the .357 Maximum. Flat trajectory, moderate recoil and great accuracy in my Ruger Blackhawk. The 200gr bullets I load fall off past 300, and don't raise as much dust as the heavier 44 and 45 slugs, so spotting hits from dust blooms is more difficult.

A bit more about this.

Keith lived in an area with a significant wild horse population. For the urbanite-non westerners this sounds wonderful, and all John Wayne-ish. For a rancher/farmer it was (and still is) a problem.

People invest years, even decades building up a breed line and remuda/herd. They have an incredible amount of money, time and effort invested. Feral mustangs get into these herds and breed with mares and can destroy that hard work. They also can introduce disease and sickness into a domestic herd.

Plus they interfere with rangeland management practices. People don't realize this these days, but at one point there were well over a MILLION wild horses running loose. It was a very common practice during the era, to put them down, rather than have them destroy people's livelihoods.

Today, in the same county that Keith lived in and often wrote about, there is a rather large herd of wild mustangs. They are a very short distance from my cabin.

That's certainly helpful, thanks. My go-to cartridge is 357 and I've been eyeing the 160 or 180 WFN at 1200-ish fps as an all around load for varmints, deer, and just having fun plinking at 100 - 300 yards. There are some who say the meplat is too large for stability at long ranges.

In regards to the F.O. front sight. Yes, they are less than ideal for long range. That was simply the sight I had on the M29 that day. It has an interchangeable front sight, so swapping is easy. The preferred setup is a tall sight with horizontal bars. RJM has an ideal one of one of his Freedom Arms guns. I took one of my spare S&W blades and filed notches in it, then added orange paint, to approximate the same effect.

It is not pretty aesthetically but it works. When I find a pic, I will post it.

Where the fiber optic works great is shooting quickly, and in failing light, as well as snow. It really seems to gather what remaining light there is and draws your eye to it. I really like them for general purposes, but not for the long range game.

"Where the fiber optic works great is shooting quickly, and in failing light, as well as snow. It really seems to gather what remaining light there is and draws your eye to it. I really like them for general purposes, but not for the long range game."....Jack Rabbits don't like them either....



Custom Long Range blade by David Clements...




Right: US Firearms Flat Top Target
Left: US Firearms Clements Custom








Clements .41 Special with matching .22/.22 Magnum

I was contemplating this topic this morning while driving, and the fact that many thought Keith was full of crap.

Without seeing the pics, and corroborations in this thread, I doubt your average person, in fact I doubt most people would believe a single word if a person said the following:

" I watched a friend make numerous hits on a target at 780 yards with an iron sighted handgun."

I once shot a target with my Glock at 780 yards."


Sounds pretty far fetched, right?


These days phones and pocket digital cameras abound and pictures are easy to share. Not so in Mr. Keith's day.


It is kind of like this:

I was coyote hunting one time with a buddy, and came back to the truck after an unsuccessful set. While standing there I saw a Jackrabbit out in the brush a ways. I told my buddy "I am going to shoot that Jack in the head".

I pulled out my .45 Glock (with target sights), held between his ears and popped him. We walked out, found him and used my LRF to laser back to the truck. 63 yards, and a head shot. I knew this was a lucky shot, so I took a pic.






I also made a point of not shooting at anything with a handgun the rest of the day, so as not to jinx myself.

The fact is that most would not believe me if I did not have a witness and a picture. It does not mean that it is not true though.

The shooting that Keith, McGivern and his kind did was extraordinary during their time period, and still is today, though more and more are giving it a go.

..Mackay..it wasn't that you were lucky...the Jack having four rabbits feet was just unlucky...for that matter ANY rabbit standing within sight of you is going to be unlucky...

I primarily am a .44 Mag guy, though enjoy playing with the .45 ACP, and to a lesser extent the .45 Colt.

The .45 Colt and .44 Mag being so close performance wise, for long range stuff I just normally stick with one.

Provided that you get a .45 Colt that is properly sized/throated, it really is hard to beat, and equally capable in its flexibility (from mellow plinking loads to elk/dinosauer stompers).

This thread instilled a strong desire to do some shark shooting.

I would set up a large target board, with a reference on the board that you can easily see at long distance, and use to consistently place your front sight on, then give your loads a try.

I have heard the same things about WFNs too, but experience has shown that such things are not absolute.

OOOF those are NICE!

I have had a lot of fun shooting .44Mag out of Ruger Super Blackhawk, 629, and a Old Vaquero. Shooting in the dry dusty environment, as mentioned, will aid in walking bullet strikes on target. Shooting into the setting sun, when done at very long distances, 300-400 yards, may allow you to watch the bullet flight with the v rings.

It is amazing what you can hit at distances of say 100-250 yards or at least come close to when you take the time to practice.

The best thing about shooting these longer distances is that it teaches you all about trigger control. A flinch when shooting at 150 yards will cause a miss of 15-20 yards and the hoots of your buddies. I like to shoot ALL of my handguns for some practice time at the 100-200 yard distance to see how my form is holding up. A Glock 27 at 200 yards can shame you quickly.

Yessir, they do, even at 1100 from the Smith, you twos long range handgun shooting would cause me to face plant a rock bank via an aneurysm trying to math windage and elevation!

Mackay Sagebrush

Back in the mid 1980's my father spent a short two weeks in a nursing home before he passed away and I would visit him during my lunch hour and after work. One day after talking to Dad for a while I took a stroll down the hall of that nursing home and noticed that one room with the door open had trophies hanging all over the walls. I came to the open door and looked in to see Elmer Keith sitting in his chair. I knocked on the door frame and he motioned me in and had a chance to have a short talk with him for a while.

He was doing poorly and his conversion would wonder off occasionally or end abruptly and after about 4-5 minutes I could tell that he was tired and I took my leave.

My Dad passed away as mentioned after about 7-9 days there and the last time I walked down the hall to get to my car I noticed that Elmer's room had been cleaned out with an older lady now in it. Glad I had the chance to see and talk to a part of him before he passed.

Red,

That place was off of Ustick Road. I remember exactly where it was.

His son Ted lived a short distance from us, on Shamrock, and my sister took horse riding lessons there. His grandson Greg and I (IIRC Greg was a year behind me) went to the same schools.

Nice to see this thread come back.

When you think about it, a 44 or 45 sixgun launching ~300 gr cast bullet @ 1200-1300 fps has similar ballistics to a civil war era target rifle. Not surprising that such bullets are capable of penetrating man or beast at extended ranges.

Great reading!! Thanks for the info..

This has been a super-informative thread. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and thanks for the great front sight pics.

Snicker!


How did I miss this?

An interesting perspective, and one I had not thought of. Thanks!

Exactly, its on the SW corner of Ustick and McMillen and last time I drove by it the building still looks like it is in operation.

Heck I remember the little tiny store called the "Ustick Merc"

In the 70s that place was like a throwback to the 1800s.