Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Hornady XTP 240 .430 vs 250 .452

Does anyone have first hand experience with either or both of these bullets on deer out of a 50 cal ML? Details please.

Also, full bore diameter bullets from an inline 50 with BH 209. I see that they don't have load data for anything but the Hornady FPB 300 grainer.

I've shot and killed deer with both. Match the .50 cal sabot to the bullet (.44 vs. .45 bullet size) and see which one your rifle likes.

Probably the most popular matching would be 240 gr. .44 cal., 300 .45, but this is something your rifle will decide.

I'm currently running some 250 .45's in appropriately sized Harvester crush ribs, primarily because that's what I have available.

I've shot the 240/44 in a TC Black Diamond (1 in 32?), a Lyman Trade Rifle (1 in 48), and a Savage 10 MLII(1 in 28??, hey it's early...). Killed deer with all combo's listed.
The 250 .45's in the Savage and TC. Killed deer with both.

As far as load data, look up the mfg's info.

Thanks MJ. The gun shoots both bullets in MMP sabots in about 1 1/2" at 100 with 80-90 BH 209. I keep .430 240s on hand for 44 Mag guns but if the 250 .452 is better, I'll keep them around too. I've been trying to pare down the required inventory in both bullets and powder and I don't shoot the ML much.

I'm with you on the simplified inventory. Unless your rifle flat out pukes with the 240's that's what I'd stick with.

There's a fellow who shot a 250 grn 45 Colt bullet from a muzzleloader and it blew up on the shoulder. It didn't penetrate, and had to be put down with a pistol.

Most 45 Colt bullets aren't designed to be used at high speeds since they need to be able to expand at under 1000 fps.

Maybe you should contact the manufacturer for their max useable speed.

Only used the 240 grain XTP over 100 grains FFG. See no need to change it. It is accurate and kills stuff dead from 15 yards to 100 yards. Killed deer and coyotes with it.

.45 XTP MAG with MMP black sabots is a solid performer with BH209.

I'm curious as to whether anyone has tried lead bullets in a sabot?
It seems pure lead does quite well as a PRB or a conical. They don't fragment as a jacketed bullet might. I've thought of finding some .458" sabots to shoot my Ruger Old Army bullets from my .50 cal Lyman's rifle for hunting.

I had good results in my Wolverine with the Knight 260 grain lead saboted loads. They got good penetration and most deer were down within 20 yards. I stopped using them when local dealers quit carrying them while Knight was out of business. I went to Harvester Crush Rib sabots and 300 grain Hornady XTP bullets. Both bullets and sabots were bought in 50 packs at considerable savings over the blister pack prices.

MMP orange for .458's.
Pure lead can fragment and excessively deform at higher velocities especially at close range, just be sure of your lead composition.

Absolutely. You can even find them marketed as a bullet/sabot pair from Thompson/Center as the "Cheap Shot". .50 caliber sabot with a .45 240 gr. lead bullet.

They perform quite well out of rifles shooting black powder and its substitutes. I do not think the sabot is rated for the pressures of the smokeless rifles, but they may be.

Wanne see a pic of what they do to a deer?

Harvester may still package a sabot/lead bullet combo under the Scorpion trade name.

As far as the Lyman, what model and twist rate?
As stated above, my 1 in 48 will handle saboted 240 grain bullets well.

The 1 in 66 Great Plains would probably have problems.
The 1 in 32 (??) Great Plains Hunter ought to be good to go.

Edited to repeat - just match the bullet diameter to the ID of the sabot. e.g. 50/44 sabots for .44's, 50/45's for .45's. I am not aware of any 50 cal. sabot that would accommodate your .458 bullets. Not much room left for plastic in a 50 cal barrel.

I've thought about using the 'Cheap Shot' 240 lead on deer. They're not as accurate as the XTP in my Omega though. Let's see the picture! What velocity were you getting with them?

No chrono measurements made.

What part of Mo., if close I could maybe "souvenir" you a couple of Cheap Shots to try. I think I still have one or two laying around.

Did you by chance try one of the Cheap Shot lead bullets in the same sabot you were using with the XTP's?

Pic to follow when I have more time.

FWIW,
I've killed I guess 7 or 8 deer with a 240 XTP. Most were on top of 100grn. of FFG Goex. If I'm remembering right, it Chronied about 1700fps out of my old BK-92.
I always shot them out of Knight's green sabots. I've still got plenty and have a source that still has plenty.
They penetrate OK, but rarely give an exit, typically stopping under the hide on the far side. The only exits I've got were on shots that were nearly too far back, and any shoulders I've busted were on the far side of quartering shots (I usually hold behind the shoulder or for a quartering shot).
They work, dunno if they're what I'd take on an elk hunt, but they work well enough on whitetail.
I've hunted with a cast RCBS 270SAA (a .452 Keith style cast bullet) the last couple of seasons and hit a pretty good sized buck (dressed 180) dead in the chest. He stumbled about 70 yards and keeled over. It had pretty well trashed the lungs (sternum shrapnel), blew a 1/2" hole through the heart and liver, and stopped somewhere in the stomach. So, yeah, cast works!

Thanks for the offer MJ but I still have a few
Cheap Shots left. I used the sabots that were packaged with the lead bullets so not the same as with the MMP used with the 240s. I have shot the 240s with the TC sabots which may be the same as the 'Cheap Shot' sabots. I'm in NW Missouri, north of KC about 35 miles.

I have shot several whitetails with the 240 and 300 gr,429 size xtp bullets, using 90 grains of fffg goex powder with excellent results.

I prefer the .429 bullets vs the .452 bullets in my muzzleloaders because they have better sectional density and ballistic coefficient for the same weight. The 300 gr. .429 XTP, for example, is a noticeably more streamlined bullet than the .452 300 gr. XTP.

Sure, it does not make a game-changing difference, but the .429's will have a slightly flatter trajectory than .452's of the same weight, construction and initial velocity, and should penetrate slightly better as well.

The .429's shoot great in my Knight rifles with the green Crush Rib sabot and BH209 or 777.

I've shot numerous whitetail with both 250 gr and 300 gr .452 XTP's. If you have a Thompson Center, try the smooth black Harvester sabots, with either XTP mentioned above, in front of 100-110 grains of BH 209.

I have a blued model of Lyman's .50 cal Deerstalker that has the deeper grooves meant for PRB and 1:48" twist.

I had checked the length of the 255 grn bullets I have and they are about on the mark for a 1:48" twist using a formula adjusted for muzzleloaders that I was given.

I believe MMP is the only one who makes a .458" sabot for a .50 cal.

I've heard that soft lead projectiles don't fragment at muzzleloader velocities. I've yet to hunt with mine, but a .490" RB can easily reach 1900 fps or more.

I bought a small number of 320 grn REALs to try out. I just bought some Lee casting equipment and RB molds for my rifle and pistol. I'm looking at molds for conicals/bullets next. I like Lee's affordability.