Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Finally made it to the range with the 400 Whelen today.

Indy,

I will be running an expansion test on the Speers along with all the other bullets I've tried. At this point the Barnes 300 grain TSX, the 400 grain Woodleigh and the resized Speer 350 grain bullets have proved the most accurate. The top honors go to the Speer. It shoots consistently small groups with every powder I've tried. If the expansion is sufficient at the velocities I am getting (2300) it most likely will be my bullet. I was disappointed that the Hawks did not shoot well. None of the weights I tried were consistent at all. The Barnes and Woodleigh were only a smidgen behind the Speer for accuracy. The 300 grain Hornady bullets for the 405 also shot well.

I am well pleased with the 400 Whelen. It scratches a nostalgic itch that no modern wildcats can. I am a long time fan of Townsend Whelen and this rifle of mine is in some small way a connection to his work. It has ample shoulder to maintain headspace as my several hundred rounds thus far have proven to me.

Your wildcat sounds interesting. The allure of wildcatting is to bring to life a round that wouldn't exist otherwise. I am not a wildcat looney but am drawn to some the historic classics; the 400 Whelen, 38 Whelen, 219 Donaldson Wasp to name a few. I guess my interest lie in classic rifles, classic cartridges, and classic wildcats. Odd for a guy with no class.

Mart

Hi Mart,
I'm getting over my 9 hrs. of jet lag. Here's a couple of pics with me blooding my 10.6mm x 375 Ruger. The little tykes at my P.H.'s wife's refuge hostel, will chew through it, so I let them name my rifle, in Afrikanz. "Een skoot mood Gnu". I promised them I'd have it engraved on the barrel as soon as I got back home. Range was 170 yds., and my Speer 350 Mag Tip went right down the middle, cutting the arteries above the heart, and ended up under the skin, just shy of the off side hindquarters.

It retained 300 grs., and the old Gnu was dead before he hit the ground. All four quarters were untouched, which impressed the ladies at the Hostel the most. Most of the time, they shoot for the front quarters, first, to keep him from running away.

http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/l534/dtrainmore/Een%20skoot%20mood%20Gnu/

What a difference a week makes.

I'm back on my feet. When I downloaded for the African trip, I came close to the older 400 Jeffery, and your 400 Whelen. You actually have the most rounds in your magazine. But Elmer Keith got past his 400 Whelens. Seems that maximum penetration equals lousy trajectories. We lefties are in kind of a bind.

As long as you are happy with a rimless 405 Win. you will make out fine. But Keith et. al. moved on down to the 338 Katie,(K-T). These mid sized bore cannons, really reached out with the existing bullets, back in the day!

You ever come across a bear this spring while toting your 400 around?

I haven't got to shoot any game with mine yet. I have been dragging my feet on getting it blued and the sights on. Seems there are always other projects that take priority. I haven't been out this spring. We had a trip back east during the peak of spring bear. I do plan to carry it this fall for all my hunts, starting with caribou in August. I guess I better hurry up and get it blued.

Mart

Mart, we'll have to have a "Whelen range day" when I get home. I want to put some more loads through my 35 and see what they're doing through the chrony.

Matt,

Absolutely! I don't need much of an excuse to get to the range and it always great to get together with another Whelen fan.

My go to load for my 35 Whelen has been the Nosler 250 Partition over 56 grains of 4320 for a velocity of 2600. In fact mine likes any 250 grain bullet and shoots them all well.

My 400 Whelen is coming along. It seems to like the 300 grain Barnes TSX, the Speer .416 350 grain resized to .411, and the Woodleigh 400 grain round nose. I've done some further testing on the 400 grain Hawk and my 400 seems to like it as well. The 300 and 350 Hawk did not perform well at all.

Let me know when you are back in town and we'll head to the range.

Be safe.

Mart

Sounds like a plan. I've already gotten sub - MOA three shot groups with both 225 grain TSXs and 250 grain Nosler partitions. I need to get a couple more powders to play with - I've only used Varget and RL 15 so far. MYore with Sawtooth Rifles knows his stuff though. I can't wait to put some big game in the freezer with my Whelen!

Well, congratulations.....between Mr. Petrov's articles and your posts here, you hooked another one. My order went into Pacific Tool this afternoon for a reamer. Here we go again.....

Most happy to have played a part in leading another into the fold. Welcome to the brotherhood of the 400 Whelen .

Mart

Gee....now all I need is a donor rifle for conversion, a barrel, dies, brass, bullets.....no problem!

Sounds like another shooter is about to be converted to the Whelen fold.

Mart, I've coresponded with a Newton fanatic from Cody, Wyo. and he mailed me one of his 416 Newton cases. This is 2 & 1/2 inches long, just like yours. My own 2.6 inch wildcat shares the exact same H20 capacity to the mouth. Mine is more streamlined, and his looks more modern, with its sharper bottle neck case.

Your 400 Whelen has a smaller case head to push back on the bolt, than either of ours. So, ideally, you can load to a higher pressure and still have the same bolt thrust, and recoil. I'm the only one who can use cheapo Lyman 416 Rigby dies to reload my cases. Of course I have custom Hornady reloading dies, too. But trimming .300 off my Lyman sizer, made this work, good enough to obtain the cases for the custom die set. In the end, I only had to phone in a couple of the neck dimensions to Ben Syring at Hornady's custom desk.

I'm still of the mind that a .416 Wildcat should maintain the old half inch long necks of the 416 Rigbys. But a 416 Newton with a longer half inch neck, may be the next step, if you run into trouble with the 400 Whelen. I'm thinking that you are right at the old ballistics of the 40 Newton. The gentleman from Cody, and I have both climbed all over the Speer 350 gr. Mag Tips, for our surprisingly equal capacity wildcats.

I have found 60 rds. of N.O.S. 410 gr. Solids, and when the weather breaks, I will load some up over R-15 and chrono them, "just because its a .416".

Indy,

Your .416 idea is interesting. I am growing more fond of my 400 every day. I found the same as Michael Petrov, that the headspace issue associated with the 400 Whelen was a huge myth with no basis in fact. I have never found any trouble with the 400 Whelen other than the cost of components.

I just resized a bunch of the Speer .416 350 grain bullets to .411. I am testing all of the available 350 grain bullets with IMR 3031 to see if I can duplicate Keith's loads he had for the 400. My previous testing with 3031 proved to be very encouraging. It and H4895 have proven to be outstanding performers in my rifle. Keith used 3031 and Western Tool and Copper 350 grain bullets in his.

The bullets today are head and shoulders above what was available then. I have the resized Speer bullets, the North Fork 360 grain and the 350 grain Swift .410 A Frames to try. I am waiting on the Hawk 350's to arrive. I am using Norma basic brass for the testing. I scored a couple of finds on Gunbroker and now have 78 of the Norma unformed 30-06 brass. Actually they are no longer unformed. They all look like 400 Whelens now.

Before my dies arrived I had to resort to using fireformed brass and 41 magnum dies to neck size my brass. I used a set of 458 Winchester dies to deprime and seat bullets. Some times a reloader has to get creative.

Mart

.400 Whelen status:
-Reamer ordered and in the mail (confirmed this morning)
-Shilen barrel ordered (4-5 weeks out)
-Base 1903 Springfield Sporter inbound
-Dies from CH4D pending (next payday)

I have a couple of different '03s that I could use for the donor rifle, but I came across an old-school Sporter someone had made up in .270 that I think will work great. If anyone is interested in a Douglas XX .270 barrel threaded for the '03 Springfield, let me know.

Mossyrock,

Awesome. You are going to love the 400. I spent most of Tuesday at the range with mine testing 350 grain bullets. I was testing Elmer Keith's old load of 63 grains of IMR 3031 behind 350 grain bullets. I tried the Swift A-Frame, North Fork 360, Hawk 350 and the Speer 350 (resized from .416). The Hawks were as inconsistent as when I tried them before. The Speers I think sprung back a little as some of them gave resistance chambering. I need to check them with a mike again. The North Fork and Swifts shot very well and both ran in the 2350-2380 range for velocity.

My favorite load with the Woodleigh 400 grain bullets is 58 grains of H4895. It runs 2150 fps and smacks caribou nicely.

I had good accuracy from the Barnes TSX bullets and need to do some more work with them. They shoot well with both 3031 and H4895. I have had poor results with RL15. It is too slow for the 400, or at least it is in mine.

Best of luck with yours. I hope to get a poke at a bear and a moose this year with mine.

mart

Have you tried the Hornady 400 grainers yet? Very intriguing... 2150fps pretty much matches the .404 Jeffrey with better sectional density.

Mossyrock,

Sorry for the delay in answering. My new job is on the North Slope and i am gone quite a bit. Now that i have a lap top I should be able to keep up with the Campfire a little better.

I have tried the Hornady .410 400 grain bullets. I picked up two boxes of them as blems from Midway last year. They shoot right along with the Woodleigh 400 grain at 2150 fps and with similar accuracy. I've not had the opportunity to put one into a game animal but have no doubt they would perform admirably. They are designed for the 450-400 Nitro which runs the same velocity.

I can tell you the Woodleigh 400 grain makes caribou quit rather effectively. At least it made one quit last year. My wife's caribou turned toes up at the shot and never wiggled. I'm sure the Hornady would perform similarly.

Mart

.400 Whelen status update:
-Reamer from Pacific Tool...CHECK!
-Shilen barrel, .411", #4 Magnum Sporter contour...CHECK!
-Base 1903 Springfield Sporter....CHECK!
-Dies from CH4D...awaiting fired cases

LET'S DO THIS THING!!!!

Update to my .400 Whelen status update:

Stopped in to my gunsmith's the other day to drop off some Husqvarna shotgun barrels that I had rust blued for him, and lo and behold, my barrel was in the lathe being chambered! With any luck, I will be able to pick up my rifle pretty soon, although there were a few things left to do, like a new bolt handle and a model 70-style safety. I will do the NECG front and rear sights myself, as well as the polishing and rust bluing. Things are progressing......