Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Did Jack O'Connor ever comment on the .308 Winchester?

In a 1968 article O�Connor wrote the following:

I have never been wildly enthusiastic over the .308 in a standard-length bolt action, as there is nothing that the .308 will do that the .30/06, because of its greater powder capacity, will not do somewhat better. The .308 with its short length and strong rim is a better cartridge for automatic and semiautomatic weapons than the .30/06, but for a standard-length bolt action I simply can�t see it. Nevertheless, for most use in a hunting rifle, any practical differences between the two cartridges would be largely a matter of the imagination.

I think he commented on it indirectly when he stated that a 7x57 loaded to fire a 160gr bullet @ 2690 fps was great "elk medicine" for someone who didn't like recoil.

The .308 has factory loads that propel a 165gr bullet @ 2700fps without a great deal more recoil than the 7x57. Indirectly, it appears he was endorsing the .308 as real "elk medicine".

And really, with a properly constructed bullet, that would include the 140gr 6.5x55 and 7mm-08, the 150gr .270, and any 150-165gr .308 caliber round loaded to launch at anywhere from 2650 to 2850 fps.

Again, in O'Connor's 1970 book, 'The Hunting Rifle', JOC said as a woods hunter he would probably choose a Marlin lever or Remington pump in .35 Remington, or a Winchester 88 or Savage 99 in .308 Winchester. He thought that the .308, .300 Savage, and .30-06 with 180 grain bullets, and the .270 and .280 with 150 grain bullets made pretty good woods cartridges that could also handle open country.

LMAO! Oh man...Amen.

I think LRF, and advances in bullet design, as well as everyman chronographs have changed the hunting game quite a bit for some, not so much for others. I can imagine that 600 yd kills in the field used to require a bit more field experience, and that the folks making those shots had to intimately understand what is largely sketched over today. For shots 300 yds and in, you don't have to know a whole lot of anything about ballistics, and that is most hunting.

I applaud the old timers as well as those today who take guns out and shoot them with purpose: either honing skill, or building knowledge, or both.

One of my favorite things about shooting/loading is I can use much the same equipment that was in use 50 or 100 or 150 years ago and still be a potent hunter. Or I can use the newest and most marketed, and still have a fun and challenging experience. Many spots on that continuum are equally valid for me. I hope to give the same fulfillment to my kids.

If J.O.C. were alive today he would probably enjoy a light weight .270 W.S.M. so he wouldn't have to overload his .270 Win with 62/H4831.

Laser range finders have indeed changed the hunting world.

One of the big reasons Jack liked the .270 was it's high velocity and resultant flatter trajectory. That flat trajectory made up for misjudging the distance to the game as long as you sighted in to maximize use of the point blank range. When he spoke of misjudging the distance, he meant the game might be 325 yards away instead of the 275 you thought it was (for example). With the rounds popular in the 30's, 40's and 50's that extra 50 yards was a real difference between a good hit and a miss.

While some folks were good judges of distance they were relatively few and the further away the game the more critical your judgement had to be.

I remember this idea repeated in many of his articles, that flat trajectory and a 3" at 100 yard sight in (or maybe 4, I'm developing CRS for some details like that) allowed you to hold dead on out to as far away as anyone should be shooting anyway.

He also had a thing against magnumitis, he didn't like the new 7mm RM and .300 WM. I'm not sure if it was the recoil, especially of the .300 WM and the fact that few shooters could shoot it well or if it was jealousy that they were surpassing his beloved .270. I tend to think the former.

We have to remember that back then a lot of rifles had steel butt plates and greater drop to their stocks resulting in more felt recoil. For years and years Gun Digest had a rundown of calibers. The .30-06 was said to have about the most recoil the "average man" could stand. With better recoil pads and better shaped stocks that seems archaic today, but it was truth back then. It probably still is today as well although now, like then, manly men won't admit it.

But if Jack were around today, my opinion is that he'd still like the .270, probably the 7mm-08 as well or any flat shooting, milder recoiling cartridge. He'd love the LRF for the ability to accurately judge distance, and he'd still definitely preach that it's not what you hit'em with, it's where you hit'em that counts.

Too few short action bolt guns then. Jack was associated with Winchester. So the choice was a M-70 blocked off to take short (308, to 22 Hornet length) chamberings, or a 270 to 375 full length magazine. The Remington products were just ignored.

So, to a sheep hunter a long action 308 was just ...silly.

As far as the idea that the 30 06 is superior to the 308 Win in every way, that statement leaves accuracy out of the equation.

Seems like I read once that the size of the X ring was sufficiently small as to serve as a tie-breaker for all the years up to the adoption of the 308 as the service cartridge.

Then it had to be made smaller TWICE because of the improved inherent accuracy of the 308.

Good piece, Jim.

Do you think ole Jack would be a turret twister or a reticle man? I do think he'd like modern range finders. He may have liked the binoc/RF combos now on the market.

Instead of guestimating the range, hoping a flat shooting round would cover miscalculations, he would know.

DF

If I re member this correctly JOC once wrote (or maybe several times) that one reason for the popularity of the .270 was because it was available with a 130 grain bullet. He said that if the .270 had used a 150 grain round nose in .270, to compete with the .30-06 with a 150 grain bullet, the .270 would not have been as popular as it was.

In OCO'S time, a flat trajectory was greatly desired. This was before rangefinders and other distance measuring devices, so long shots were the norm, especially out west, and that was where the .270 was so well liked and why it became so popular.

You LA hanger oners make me smile - 100 fps translates to maybe a 50 yd down range advantage. With today's bullets, powders etc., the 308 IS the 30-06 of JOCs time. I'm not worrying about the 50-100 fps diff. I'm enjoying great accuracy, less powder, and less recoil in a lightweight handy, well balanced, superbly accurate cartridge.