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Joined: Oct 2009
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You guys will love this scope!
My prototype will be in my hands and on my rifle soon. It's been a fun project to be involved in.
Luck....is the residue of design...
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Great to hear from you Pat!
I can't wait to see it....
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Sounds like a great scope.
I'm under the impression that some of the Bushnell Tactical scopes like the DMR 3.5-21x50 are build with more rugged construction than the 4200, regular Elites and other Tacticals.
Is the LR Hunter going to be constructed like the DMR (hard use) or more like the older 4200 and regular Elites (standard duty)?
Jason
Last edited by 4th_point; 10/20/13.
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Nothing standard duty with this scope as far as I can tell. I have two DMR's and this one is built just as well. We had this scope and Scott's new NF 2-10X42 side by side and none of us could see any difference glass wise. The eye box was equal as well. I thought the field of view was slightly better with the Bushnell when both scopes were on 10X.
Luck....is the residue of design...
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Joined: Nov 2004
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this scope in my view is a huge opportunity lost IMO. a couple years back I sent an email to bushnell and told them my ideas for a long range hunting scope. The scope I said needed to be built would have had a reticle similar to the graybull and huskemaw reticles. The reticle would have been in MOA. Mils is an odd ball unit of measurement, it just is. in my mind it requires a second calculation to make it into a unit of measurement we all relate to every day. I have heard all the people say use it and its better. I for the life of me just can't see how after studying it. both MOA and mils are a unit of angular measurement, there is nothing magic about the mil system and just because the military uses it doesn't mean I should or its better, they also use the metric system. MOA relates very closely to inches, I can look through my reticle at a rock I am shooting at across a canyon, it measures 2 MOA in my MOAR nightforce reticle. distance is 700 yards. I know roughly thats about a 14" rock I am shooting at. mils also don't brake down as well either, most of the finer mil reticles are broken down to half mils, which is pushing close to twice the measurement of MOA, .5 mil is 1.8 ish moa, thats too course of measurement IMO to be as effective as MOA could be when used on a reticle for wind hold offs.
I do like the concept of keeping the turret inside one turn and that turn being 10 mils, 10 mils is a freaking lot of adjustment roughly 36 moa, that would get my 243 ai out to like 1300 yards. I don't think I have ever even attempted a shot that far. but again I would like to see the turret be 36 moa in one turn, a look at possibly using 1/3 moa clicks which would be close to .1 mil.
The next thing is the reticle, this is a tactical reticle, to me its looks like the GAP HDMR reticle in bushnell's tactical scope. I don't see a need for that busy of a reticle get rid for the marks on the verticle or the horus like marks below. if you dial the scope you don't need all this crap. I also can't see how the scope would be that great in low light without illumination. I don't like illumination on a hunting scope because what happens when the battery goes out. I personally love bushnell scopes they are some of my favorites the elite series etc. To me its sad they are listening to much to the tactical crowd over at snipers hide. I have spent some time over there and I can tell you the crowd over there has a very group think pack like mentality. They are very close minded about other ideas and tend to be the type that know what they know and they can't be reasoned with easily. Another thing is the rash of 34 mm tubed scopes, why on earth does 99% of people need a 34mm tube scope??? the 34mm tube means at best 20 moa of elevation extra, that takes my 243 ai from 1700 yards to 1900 big freaking whoop, again this is coming from the tactical crowd. I wish bushnell would listen to real long range hunters.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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this scope in my view is a huge opportunity lost IMO. a couple years back I sent an email to bushnell and told them my ideas for a long range hunting scope. The scope I said needed to be built would have had a reticle similar to the graybull and huskemaw reticles. The reticle would have been in MOA. Mils is an odd ball unit of measurement, it just is. in my mind it requires a second calculation to make it into a unit of measurement we all relate to every day. I have heard all the people say use it and its better. I for the life of me just can't see how after studying it. both MOA and mils are a unit of angular measurement, there is nothing magic about the mil system and just because the military uses it doesn't mean I should or its better, they also use the metric system. MOA relates very closely to inches, I can look through my reticle at a rock I am shooting at across a canyon, it measures 2 MOA in my MOAR nightforce reticle. distance is 700 yards. I know roughly thats about a 14" rock I am shooting at. mils also don't brake down as well either, most of the finer mil reticles are broken down to half mils, which is pushing close to twice the measurement of MOA, .5 mil is 1.8 ish moa, thats too course of measurement IMO to be as effective as MOA could be when used on a reticle for wind hold offs.
I do like the concept of keeping the turret inside one turn and that turn being 10 mils, 10 mils is a freaking lot of adjustment roughly 36 moa, that would get my 243 ai out to like 1300 yards. I don't think I have ever even attempted a shot that far. but again I would like to see the turret be 36 moa in one turn, a look at possibly using 1/3 moa clicks which would be close to .1 mil.
The next thing is the reticle, this is a tactical reticle, to me its looks like the GAP HDMR reticle in bushnell's tactical scope. I don't see a need for that busy of a reticle get rid for the marks on the verticle or the horus like marks below. if you dial the scope you don't need all this crap. I also can't see how the scope would be that great in low light without illumination. I don't like illumination on a hunting scope because what happens when the battery goes out. I personally love bushnell scopes they are some of my favorites the elite series etc. To me its sad they are listening to much to the tactical crowd over at snipers hide. I have spent some time over there and I can tell you the crowd over there has a very group think pack like mentality. They are very close minded about other ideas and tend to be the type that know what they know and they can't be reasoned with easily. Another thing is the rash of 34 mm tubed scopes, why on earth does 99% of people need a 34mm tube scope??? the 34mm tube means at best 20 moa of elevation extra, that takes my 243 ai from 1700 yards to 1900 big freaking whoop, again this is coming from the tactical crowd. I wish bushnell would listen to real long range hunters. I'm sure Bushnell will call you next time rather than Pat Sinclair and George Gardner. Laughing...
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Joined: Nov 2004
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this scope in my view is a huge opportunity lost IMO. a couple years back I sent an email to bushnell and told them my ideas for a long range hunting scope. The scope I said needed to be built would have had a reticle similar to the graybull and huskemaw reticles. The reticle would have been in MOA. Mils is an odd ball unit of measurement, it just is. in my mind it requires a second calculation to make it into a unit of measurement we all relate to every day. I have heard all the people say use it and its better. I for the life of me just can't see how after studying it. both MOA and mils are a unit of angular measurement, there is nothing magic about the mil system and just because the military uses it doesn't mean I should or its better, they also use the metric system. MOA relates very closely to inches, I can look through my reticle at a rock I am shooting at across a canyon, it measures 2 MOA in my MOAR nightforce reticle. distance is 700 yards. I know roughly thats about a 14" rock I am shooting at. mils also don't brake down as well either, most of the finer mil reticles are broken down to half mils, which is pushing close to twice the measurement of MOA, .5 mil is 1.8 ish moa, thats too course of measurement IMO to be as effective as MOA could be when used on a reticle for wind hold offs.
I do like the concept of keeping the turret inside one turn and that turn being 10 mils, 10 mils is a freaking lot of adjustment roughly 36 moa, that would get my 243 ai out to like 1300 yards. I don't think I have ever even attempted a shot that far. but again I would like to see the turret be 36 moa in one turn, a look at possibly using 1/3 moa clicks which would be close to .1 mil.
The next thing is the reticle, this is a tactical reticle, to me its looks like the GAP HDMR reticle in bushnell's tactical scope. I don't see a need for that busy of a reticle get rid for the marks on the verticle or the horus like marks below. if you dial the scope you don't need all this crap. I also can't see how the scope would be that great in low light without illumination. I don't like illumination on a hunting scope because what happens when the battery goes out. I personally love bushnell scopes they are some of my favorites the elite series etc. To me its sad they are listening to much to the tactical crowd over at snipers hide. I have spent some time over there and I can tell you the crowd over there has a very group think pack like mentality. They are very close minded about other ideas and tend to be the type that know what they know and they can't be reasoned with easily. Another thing is the rash of 34 mm tubed scopes, why on earth does 99% of people need a 34mm tube scope??? the 34mm tube means at best 20 moa of elevation extra, that takes my 243 ai from 1700 yards to 1900 big freaking whoop, again this is coming from the tactical crowd. I wish bushnell would listen to real long range hunters. I'm sure Bushnell will call you next time rather than Pat Sinclair and George Gardner. Laughing... ok so don't ever have an original thought let george and pat tell you whats best, you would probably fit in well over at snipers hide. looked at the specs again noticed the reticle is FFP, again I think this is a mistake in a hunting scope, SFP is the way to go there, FFP as definite disadvantages. as for the rest of the scope I would be happy with an MOA option SFP reticle, MOA turrets etc. this is a a tactical scope I don't really see why other than weight they bothered making this scope over the tactical scopes they already make.
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I'll take FFP every single time in a LR hunting scope.
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Cumminscowboy is saying its a tactical scope because its FFP and Mils. I don't buy it. With that said, I'd have to agree that the vast majority of long range hunters are on the MOA system. Bushnell should offer a choice and not force us to change if we have no reason to. I don't like the thought of having some scopes MOA and some MIL.
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Joined: Jun 2011
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I have some scopes that are Mil reticle and Mil adjustments, some that are MOA adjustments with reticle subtensions in MOA, and some that are MOA adjustments with Mil reticles.
What's the big deal? They're just units of measurement.
Data on the card or PDA tells you what to dial or hold and you do it
I couldn't care less if they had a different name, like "parsecs"
If I have to dial 5.1 parsecs to hit a 760 yard target instead of 5.1 mils, oh well...
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I really can't get my head around the MIL/MOA debate.
I will say I like them to be same/same on the one scope.
Bushnell looks cool. I may have missed it but what do they cost?
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Might be too late to right this ship, but I'd like to see a covered elevation turret as well. I have had uncovered turrets walk on me when pulled from a soft case, or from being carried slung over the shoulder. Otherwise, I like to look.
Bushnell should be able to get this scope to marker for same price as the HDMR, $1000-$1,200.
What is the prototype weight?
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I've never used mils so can't say I can't adapt. My hesitation is that my brain can't see 30 centimeters but it knows exactly what 12 inches looks like (and yes I realize an inch and MOA isn't the same thing).
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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My son's rifle is a mil/mil setup. Works the exact same as an MOA setup.
Look at chart. Dial. Shoot. I don't much care how the little calculator thingy comes up with the numbers.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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I realize that its just looking at a chart, but my mind wants to see it, and will see it, before I use it. Just the way I'm wired. When holding off 1.5 mils at 600 I want to know what it looks like.
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I realize that its just looking at a chart, but my mind wants to see it, and will see it, before I use it. Just the way I'm wired. When holding off 1.5 mils at 600 I want to know what it looks like. Stop being difficult... Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Not a terrible way to go, but i ditched the CDS for a TT, tried an MOA CDS on the 4.5-14 and a 3.5-10. hated them
rosco, What did you not like about the CDS? Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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I don't really care much about the scope.... but it sure is nice to have Pat back!
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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The learning curve with mils can be a bit difficult if you're used to thinking in inches and not willing to let that go. But once you figure mils out, they're a good deal. The real issues arise when the reticle is mil based, the adjustments in MOA, because it requires an extra step in conversion, or when the shooter is using a mil system, and the spotter is thinking in MOA or inches. Once everybody and their technology is on the same page, it works pretty slick.
That being said, it would be nice to see an MOA/MOA model of this scope. Also, I'm not totally sold on the CQB center circle deal.
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My experience with mils mirrors Travis's. Look at the chart, dial it, pull the trigger.
Tanner
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