Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR 38-40 &BP

I recently acquired a Colt SAA in 38-40 with serial #159xxx. Which by all information requires that S/N in that range requires BP loads.
All the information I have found and advice recomends 33-35 grains by volume of FFFG. Basically compressing the BP by about 1/8".

One of things I have read is that regular bullet lube is too hard for BP and something softer like Bore Butter should be used. This means I will have to remove the lube from the commercial bullets I have and some how reapply the softer lube.

Another thing was that bullets in the range of 10-11BHN are to be used.

I have been a long time cartridge reloader, but this is my first foray in BPCR loading. Any thoughts, opinions , advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Saddlesore, Welcome to the world of black powder cartridge shooting and loading. Maybe I just want to be different but I'd try FFg in that cartridge just to keep the load a little calmer. The real full load for the .38/40 is 38 grains but cutting that back a little is just fine. Go ahead and use 30 to 33 grains for your first try. And, yes, you'll want a black powder bullet lube. You can buy bullets already sized and lubed with SPG (a well known black powder lube) from Buffalo Arms Co. You can google their website and spend hours looking at all of their good plunder. Right now they are out of stock for .38/40 bullets but you can get good black powder lubes from them. Bullets probably should be on the softer side for the .38/40 but not pure lead. I shoot .44/40s and .45 Colts and pure lead will leave deposits in the barrels. To put things generally, you can use just about any lead alloy that you'd use in the .38 Special and do alright. You might also try looking for info on some of the Cowboy Action chat sites, many of those clubs have black powder events. Shoot sharp, Mike

I don't shoot pistols much but what 303Mike said about lube and soft lead certainly works in rifles. You can make your own lube of course, and there are lots of good recipes that are simple. But buying some is a good place to start.

One thing I'll add to what 303 said - use REAL blackpowder. Be it Swiss(top of the line), KIK, Goex, etc. But avoid the artificial blackpowders, most especially Pyrodex. It is not just an aesthetic issue - it is also best for the long term care of your handgun. Not kidding about that.

Brent

37 grs of Goex 3f under a .030 fiber wad and the rcbs 180 gr bullet lubed with Bullshop Nasa lube has worked quite well.
When Goex let out the Old Eynsford I loaded 35 grs of that 2f with the same bullet and got a blazing 940 fps. from a 4 3/4 in barrel.
The "flaring" die works fine to compress the powder and wad and leave room to seat the bullet without mashing things. Those bottleneck cases are a bit easy to crumble.
One other thing to keep in mind if working with old WRA or western cases, they crimped the primers in those factory loads so you'll need to ream the primer pocket before you proceed to reload those.

Let me double what BrentD said about using real black powder. The substitutes are a lot of trouble, very corrosive, and you don't need that type of thing with your nice original old Colt. Real black powder is not as convenient to find or get but getting it is well worth the trouble. Shoot sharp, Mike

I use real BP, and have a pound of FFFG and two of FFG. It's readily available here.I already have 800 + bullets from Dardas, but the have the blue lube, and are sized .403. They are probably a little harder. I also have 500 bullets sized .401.

I could melt that lube off and reapply bore butter using a cookie cutter approach. Might be easier to just buy the Buffalo Bullets

Troubling to me is that I slugged the barrel and it is .405.

I also have a bag of prelubed wads in 50 cal. l that I can probably cut down.

I read that regular dies will usually not set the shoulder back far enough, but checked some of my loads that I use in my Marlin 94 rifle ( Lee dies)and they chamber OK in this handgun.

Problem with the Lee dies is that I could not get a good crimp on the loads and had to resort to a LEE FC, which most say do not use on cast bullets as they will size down the bullet when crimping. Any thoughts on that?

With this gun, I also received a complete set of the old Lyman Tong tools for reloading.

Thanks for the help.

I'm off on a muzzle loader elk hunt tomorrow so it will be a few weeks before I can get going on this project.

Don't use bore butter. Really there is so many lubes that are much much better. Or make your own. But Bore Butter is probably going to disappoint.

Your bulle size might not be too bad. They may bump up if they are soft lead.

Wads from John Walters is always a good idea.

Melting the lube out of those bullets and relubing with a good lube is your best bet. Bore butter is not a good bullet lube.
If those bullets you have are cast fairly soft they'll most likely work ok, but if they're hard cast they give you a bunch of leading.
The lee size die is a joke. I ended up buying a set of Hornady dies and that solved the bullet wanting to fall out of the resized case problem..

Got out yesterday to do some shooting of this BP 38-40 Colt. I loaded some softer ,401 dia. bullets with 33,35, and 37 gr of GOEX 3f BP w/wad. about 18" groups at 10 yards.

Then I tried some harder bullets, sized .403,but with regular lube and the same loadings. About the same results. There was no leading.

I was hard pressed to get two cylinders shot ( 12 rounds) at a time before the gun locked up from all the fouling. Is that common?

I had slugged the bore (lands)and it was .406.

This might turn out to be just a wall piece.

You ought to be able to run 25-30 or more before the gun starts to tie up. Problem is most likely the bullets being to small creating to much fouling from the blowby and gascutting the bullet bases.

Kinda what I figured. Maybe I can find some 41 mag cast bullets and size them down a smidge. I can make a sizer easy enough. I figure I should be about .407-.408. Problem might be getting them soft enough.
Wonder if I can get them seated in a3 8-40 case though.

You should be able to find some bullets for the real 40-65 about that diameter.
Don't know if Lee offers a 180 gr 41 mould or not.

I found some 190 gr, 41 mag bullets sized to .410 and they will put black powder lube on them for $2.00 /100. Moyer cast Bullets. About $9.50/100 and they will ship a small lot thru USPS for about $5.
I already have an adjustable reamer that I can use to make a sizer with.

That sounds like it ought to work .
I'ld be interested in your assessment of the quality of those bullets, as I have thought about ordering some of their 22 bullets.

Further experimentation.
I made a sizing collar on the lathe and using an adjustable reamer I cut it to .4065 ID.

I have some.419 diameter pure lead round balls that I use in an old BP Kentucky pistol.

I pushed those balls thru the sizer, incrementally as I was reaming it, taking about .001 out at a time. Using a 4 place micrometer, I stopped when balls measured .4065.

Having a few old baloon head cases that I don't use, I seated the .4065 balls in them, crimped just enough to take the bell out the case + some.

Results were the cases were bulged enough that they would not chamber in this old 1902 or so Colt I have. .4040 seems to be the limit and the bullets I have are sized .403.

Checking the gun closer the S/N on the trigger guard is pre smokeless, but the frame is post BP so I can use regular smokeless in it, but I'll stick with mild loads and about 10K psi pressure and about 900fps.
I loaded up some 180 gr cast lead bullets ,unfortunately they are harder than I need, with 7.5, 8, and 8.5 gr of W231.

My old manuals only list Unique, and other obsolete powders but W231 is almost identical in burn rate,maybe a tad faster. I have no Unique.

Checking with a few gunsmiths, I can't find anyone to do relines and a new barrel is $400.

Seems all these early 38-40 (38WCF) were .406 and new ones are .401 or .410 depending if they are chambered to accept the .410, 41 mag bullets.

It is my thoughts that the .406 bores were done to for use of softer lead bullets that would expand to seal the bore/\bullet,or maybe to take in to account the BP fouling. Just a guess.

So weather permitting it's off to the range in a few days to check these out.