Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Indian slaughter you seldom hear about.

The indians of that day were brutal savages. plenty of documentation to back that up. ya the white man did their share but the indians by far were the more brutal.

i don't apologize for anything my ancestors did. they did what they had to do to keep their people safe. indians did the same. the white man was just more effective at it and won.

There were quite a few civilian/innocents casualties in the French and Indian War also.

A bunch of Redskins were slaughtered in Denver just last week.



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so these soldiers were out doing "final solution" work while the rest of the war effort is engaged in the heart of the civil war?

Read my book: 'Battle of Fortune Wells.' It's fiction, but very well covers the history of enmity in the western us and tells both sides of the equation. Not for the faint of heart.

http://csuchico-dspace.calstate.edu...202011%20Ashley%20Kendell.pdf?sequence=1

Here's a thesis about scalping practices of pre-European Native American slaughter of over 500 other Native Americans at the Crow Creek Village Massacre site.
You've probably heard that Native Americans didn't adopt scalping until it was introduced by Europeans, that's a lie.

Indians got what they ask for, so who cares . It was a better country to live in when White People didn't take any chit, they did what was needed to survive . We need some more of this way of thinking today.

I read somewhere that God knocked out the entire earth, women, children and even dogs, sans a few close to Noah.

You mean Kicking Bird and Smiles a Lot from Dances with Wolves weren't real!

Eyewitness accounts from that era say damn right they weren't. Even the notorious Sand Creek Massacre was retaliation for Indians leaving reservations and going on raids in which they raped, murdered, and mutilated settlers, men, women, children AND babies alike! The locals got fed up with it, formed a militia and issued payback to the Indians when they caught them "off the reservation" at Sand Creek. On the reservations, they were given protection by the Federal Government as well as rifles and ammo to "hunt buffalo" with. Imagine that, the Federal Govt effing something up and getting a bunch of their citizens killed! Nothing new under the sun I guess!

Political correctness can't or won't handle the truth. I am very impressed with your level of education, that you probably got on your own and not from any of the govt screwels. I ain't saying that white people were innocent either, they were not and did some terrible things. However, in most cases they did not do it because they were "evil white people", although there were plenty of those. There is always two sides to a story if you look hard enough and cut through the BS. Most of us today would not take to well to having our women raped, killed, or taken captive, nor would we appreciate having our friends and neighbors hacked, gutted or burned to death.

By the same token, we would not like having our homes and land taken by invaders and our way of life ended either. I refuse to judge either side until it gets totally one-sided like it is today.

For anyone interested, not long ago I read a book called Shadows at Dawn by Karl Jacoby about the almost unknown Camp Grant Massacre. Tragic but happened largely because the enemy O'Odham tribe wanted the Apache dead. The absolute hatred they had between two groups was just profound. Displaced Mexicans and some white settlers felt the same way about the Apache though the local military was on friendly terms. Ugly times to be around.

So what was it that the Indians asked for?

What did Chief Joseph ask for.

What did the Cherokee ask for?

The history of Mankind is all about conquest. The ones on the winning side lived better than the vanquished.

Today, that pattern is still at work in a variety of ways. Nuclear weapons are a bit destructive, so now the new tactic is immigration & procreation - move in and out birth your enemy.

Your enemy is so stupid that they will stop having kids and you can wipe them out in a couple of generations without violence. In the meantime, use their own laws against them. Use the media for propaganda and warp the popular culture. Encourage the demise of their nuclear family while keeping yours strong.

Yep, same goal just different methods.

Anyone here read Allan Eckert? Don't flame but it seems pretty true that whites broke every treaty they signed. On the other hand, often those Indians who signed a treaty didn't "own" the land they signed away. They felt like they pulled one over on the whites by signing away lands traditionally owned by other tribes. In addition, tribes were often confederations and unless each subset was represented and agreed to 'sell'-which was never the case because subsets often had their own alliances with other tribes of counter opinion, you were going to have violations. The flip side is that the US gov't had almost no ability to control frontier locals or make them abide by treaties signed by the government. So, well meaning people on both sides may have agreed to peace terms and leave the parley thinking the other side represented 100% of their people, it was just never so.

Just as both sides showed great ability to inflict cruelties they also had few who showed remarkable good will and kindness. Sometimes it required a lot more bravery to be kind. In all cases, people back then seem a lot more fearless than we do today.

Even if they are federal troops? Geez, how about the white man showing up with genocide in mind?

Yeah, a bit...

These stories have been argued for well over a hundred years & many who have know idea what they're talking about jump in & justify killing women & children, thats not war, never has been, never will be, thats murder.
You have to try & put things in order when wrapping your mind around how these battles/murders began. If you can find a copy of "Journal of a Trapper" you will gain some insight into the way life was back when the first white trappers came into the western US & settled among the indians (not redskins) Osbourne Russell was one of the few who kept somewhat of a daily diary while he spent 9 years in the Rocky Mountains. He helped build Fort Hall here in Idaho & hunted & trapped in eastern Idaho, western Wyoming, parts of Montana & also parts of northern Utah.
I wrote a piece several years ago about the Bear River Massacare & what actaully happened there. I can walk out my front door right now & see where the old Fort Connor used to be, its now under water from Alexander Resorvoir.
The indians of that era did exactly what the early trappers described when they first encountered them, they hunted, trapped, traded with other tribes, raided other tribes for horses & sometimes women & were constantly moving in search of food & grazing for their horses.
The indians didn't ask for an invasion from white settlers, it was forced down their throats, their buffalo were being slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands, along with the deer, elk, bear (lots of mountain grizzles) the beaver were being trapped out & they were forced to fight or starve, many did starve.
There are many indians within 50 miles from where I live, they've long ago been put on the reservation, very few can get jobs in the white culture, unemployment is very high, drug use is rampant. Until recently their water was very bad, thats been ungraded but a took a long time. Crime is completely out of control (mostly meth) & suicide is probably triple the national average.
There are very few indian role models, although Steve Young has done much is this area.
When you talk about a battle, don't justify murder, like it or not it isn't the same, or at least it shouldn't be.
Camp Connor & later Fort Connor is about 60 miles north of where the Bear River Massacare took place. The fort was right behind this historical marker, on the banks of the Bear River.



If someone moved in on you, started killing off your food scource & forcing you off your land....would you fight....yes or no!

Many Indians from Utah & Idaho travel to the "battle" site & leave beads, tokens, etc. honoring their fallen ancestors.


I'm not Indian but I see them almost everyday, worked with several over the years & will meet one today who's one of the lucky ones, he always managed to find a job. Most of them live a horrible life because they are isolated on the reservations, we've taken away their dignity, they live on government money & most have no hope. Like it or not it was forced on them. Agree or not, most of them would take a job if offered. Their schools have a tremendous drop out rate & on looked down on by "others", true story!


Another good read if you can find it is the story of "Beaver Dick Leigh" early mountain man, his story is one of the saddest you will ever read. Leigh lake & Jenny lake in western Wyoming are named after him & his Indian wife.

Dick

Sand Creek? What a fine bunch of Christian Soldiers

"Damn any man who sympathizes with Indians! ... I have come to kill Indians, and believe it is right and honorable to use any means under God's heaven to kill Indians. ... Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice."
�- Col. John Milton Chivington

Eerily prophetic.....

Then there's the infamous Almo Massacre near the tiny town of Almo, ID, SE of Twin Falls. They have a sign in the middle of town describing how Indians killed 300 immigrants in a wagon train. However, there's a catch. There's no historical evidence whatever that it happened. Newspapers of the day always printed details of every skirmish but they say nothing about this one. If 300 were killed in a battle, it would have been major news nationwide.

So much for manufactured history. It's part of the town's lore and 'history' so it will go on as long as the town's there.

They are events, if you take the meaning from them that humans are imperfect then your right on, if you take a tone that current generations are evil because of past events, well then you didn't get the lesson.

There is always someone who is envious of you, they will try to get into your head, to win before the battle as Sun Tzu teaches.