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#8229350 - 11/06/13 05:14 PM Dick Metcalf...FIRED
NathanL Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 12353
Loc: MS/LA/TX
G&A release

Long apology...his association with G&A has ended.
_________________________
Otto is my co-pilot.

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#8229357 - 11/06/13 05:15 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
CrimsonTide Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 14051
Loc: Kentucky
Does an editor not look at an article before it is printed, or was DICK the editor?
_________________________
Do something today to make this country a better place. Slap a Democrat. It may not help, but it'll sure make you feel better.

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#8229364 - 11/06/13 05:17 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
Tracks Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 8185
Loc: Northern Colorado
The editor should have fired himself as well.
_________________________
Do not wish ill for your enemy, plan for it.



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#8229367 - 11/06/13 05:18 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Tracks]
CrimsonTide Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 14051
Loc: Kentucky
That's what I was getting at.
_________________________
Do something today to make this country a better place. Slap a Democrat. It may not help, but it'll sure make you feel better.

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#8229372 - 11/06/13 05:19 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
rkamp Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/19/08
Posts: 3087
Loc: Austin TX

The internet killed G&A long ago. Barely john worthy except to replace TP.
_________________________
"Knowledge is good"
— Emil Faber

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#8229385 - 11/06/13 05:22 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: CrimsonTide]
DINK Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6279
Loc: Missouri
The problem is a bunch of people read that article and thought it was a good article. Metcalf is the only one going to pay the price when numerous people need to also.

Gun people will forget and keep supporting all the rest there that thought that article was ok to print.

Dink

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#8229389 - 11/06/13 05:22 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
RipSnort Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 1591
I guess I'll still send the letter to the editor that I wrote today even though the two things I suggested, the firing of Metcalf and the resignation of the editor, have already taken place. I want their corporate masters to fully understand the mistake that was made in publishing Metcalf's ignorant and foolish column.


RS

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#8229398 - 11/06/13 05:24 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: RipSnort]
stevelyn Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 2213
Loc: Fairbanksan in Aleutian Hell
Good. We don't need traitors in our ranks posing as one of us.

Maybe Sarah Brady or Mikey Bloomberg can offer him a job for his loyal service.
_________________________
A Free And Independent Alaska Republic Now!
http:www.akip.org

Squished bugs on a windshield are proof the slow/heavy bullet theory works.

SHOOT STRAIGHT-STAB UPWARDS

Eat Moose.....Wear Wolf.

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#8229400 - 11/06/13 05:24 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
7x57STEVE Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 3709
Some people must buy G&A, but I do not know who they are.

Seems like G&A spotted the gorilla in the room only way after the fact.

Can't even imagine how they would ever think that that his editorial would not start a fire storm.

Steve

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#8229411 - 11/06/13 05:27 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: 7x57STEVE]
Bigbuck215 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 12462
Loc: Billings, Mt and proud of it ...
Who is Dick Metcalf and what did he do?
_________________________
The Mayans had it right. If you’re going to predict the future, it’s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.



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#8229430 - 11/06/13 05:30 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: 7x57STEVE]
APDDSN0864 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/31/03
Posts: 11713
Loc: Alaska/Texas
Originally Posted By: 7x57STEVE
Some people must buy G&A, but I do not know who they are.

Seems like G&A spotted the gorilla in the room only way after the fact.

Can't even imagine how they would ever think that that his editorial would not start a fire storm.

Steve



They DID know it was going to raise a fire storm, Jim said so in his apology, something to the effect that he did so anticipating a strong debate. It was printed solely to increase attention and readership.

They got what they wanted, and more.

Ed
_________________________
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell


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#8229465 - 11/06/13 05:39 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: 7x57STEVE]
bea175 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 02/15/02
Posts: 23391
Loc: Kpt.,TN , Montgomery, Co, VA
Never enter their minds it would become a major story and they would get the backlash they received . They are in recovery mode and someone had to go down, so i would bet Dick volunteered and got a really big severance check . Like Jim Dumbo he will let it calm down and then ease back in through the back door . People in this country have short memories .
_________________________
The older we get , the farther we get away from what we think we are.


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#8229477 - 11/06/13 05:41 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: bea175]
NathanL Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 12353
Loc: MS/LA/TX
It's a top news story on Yahoo news now as well.
_________________________
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#8229499 - 11/06/13 05:45 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
EthanEdwards Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 32360
Loc: Four States
Well...it's a sad thing but not really. [bleep] Dick Mecalf. I'd cry for his sad-assed firing, but I'm too busy laughing my ass off.
_________________________
Jesus is Lord.

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#8229504 - 11/06/13 05:46 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
Flfiremedic Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 1129
Loc: Florida
Well they got attention...located a traitor...and dumped a lousy writer. Hat Trick!
_________________________
Unreconstructed to the End.
Dum Vivimus Vivamus
Death smiles at us all...but only FMF Corpsmen smile back

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#8229633 - 11/06/13 06:07 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
The_Real_Hawkeye Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 65111
Loc: Northern Florida
Excellent news.
_________________________
"A people armed and free forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition and is a bulwark for the nation against foreign invasion and domestic oppression."

James Madison

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#8229664 - 11/06/13 06:15 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Flfiremedic]
rkamp Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/19/08
Posts: 3087
Loc: Austin TX
Originally Posted By: Flfiremedic
Well they got attention...located a traitor...and dumped a lousy writer. Hat Trick!


Speaking of lousy handgun writers, that Chuck Taylor should have wrote for Mad Magazine.
_________________________
"Knowledge is good"
— Emil Faber

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#8229678 - 11/06/13 06:18 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Tracks]
MichiganScott Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 1967
Loc: God's Country
Originally Posted By: Tracks
The editor should have fired himself as well.


He did resign.

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#8229695 - 11/06/13 06:22 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: MichiganScott]
458 Lott Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 12582
Loc: Conundrum, Alaska
They should have canned his azz a decade ago simply because he was a pompous azz of mediocre technical and shooting ability.

And, how does G&A stay in business as it's been nearly 20 years since it was worth reading.
_________________________
I'm not a gunwriter, that's 458 win. I'm just a gun-nut in Alaska.

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#8229708 - 11/06/13 06:26 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: 458 Lott]
wageslave Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 10483
Loc: Idaho's only Seaport
Great news.

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#8229717 - 11/06/13 06:29 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: 458 Lott]
DINK Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6279
Loc: Missouri
The comments on anti-guns and anti-ammo Facebook page are great (I stole the anti-comment from there).

It's to bad most people are only blaming Metcalf and posted they would still buy the magazine if he were fired.

There are a whole bunch more Anti-gun people at that magazine.

Who did Zumbo write for when he went anti?

Dink

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#8229747 - 11/06/13 06:36 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: rkamp]
bearhuntr Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 2381
Loc: at Grandma's house...
Originally Posted By: rkamp
Originally Posted By: Flfiremedic
Well they got attention...located a traitor...and dumped a lousy writer. Hat Trick!


Speaking of lousy handgun writers, that Chuck Taylor should have wrote for Mad Magazine.


Now don't you be disparaging Mad Magazine, friend! smile

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#8229749 - 11/06/13 06:37 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: DINK]
tsquare Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 686
Loc: Arizona
Wonder if either or both are still employed by Intermedia Outdoors.

TT

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#8229763 - 11/06/13 06:39 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: rkamp]
SmokeEater2 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/02/10
Posts: 640
Loc: Arkansas
Originally Posted By: rkamp

The internet killed G&A long ago. Barely john worthy except to replace TP.



Not even good for TP, The pages are way too slick. eek

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#8229769 - 11/06/13 06:40 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: tsquare]
DINK Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6279
Loc: Missouri
What did Chuck do? He used to write ok articles.

Dink

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#8229777 - 11/06/13 06:41 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
Ramblin_Razorback Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 3777
Loc: Georgia
Ignorance in some leftist blogger's rant on the Web wouldn't surprise me in the least, but such ignorance being published (i.e., written by a writer and then read and approved by an editor) in one of the most prominent gun magazines is inexcusable. I'm glad decisive action was taken.

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#8229813 - 11/06/13 06:49 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: MichiganScott]
JohnMoses Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 17879
Loc: Mississippi

Just another idiot out of a job. He sucked IMO.

Good riddance.
_________________________

www.pronghornsling.com

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#8229821 - 11/06/13 06:51 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: JohnMoses]
Flfiremedic Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 1129
Loc: Florida
Has Dick Metcalf responded at all?
_________________________
Unreconstructed to the End.
Dum Vivimus Vivamus
Death smiles at us all...but only FMF Corpsmen smile back

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#8229835 - 11/06/13 06:53 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: JohnMoses]
bea175 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 02/15/02
Posts: 23391
Loc: Kpt.,TN , Montgomery, Co, VA
I'm sure the stock holders had something to do with the firing.
_________________________
The older we get , the farther we get away from what we think we are.


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#8229989 - 11/06/13 07:31 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Bigbuck215]
WyColoCowboy Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 2320
Loc: Woodland Park, Colorado
The editor wasn't clear in his letter, but Metcalf was fired and the editor was supposed to leave January 1st, but he has resigned effective immediately. Intermedia has to be going bonkers. It's like like they ran the the Porsche over a cliff. I don't see G&A recovering.
_________________________
[I spent the first 25 years of life trying to get out of Wyoming and I'll spend the rest of my life trying to get back...]

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#8230053 - 11/06/13 07:52 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: WyColoCowboy]
ready_on_the_right Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 11351
Loc: GA, USA
Originally Posted By: WyColoCowboy
The editor wasn't clear in his letter, but Metcalf was fired and the editor was supposed to leave January 1st, but he has resigned effective immediately. Intermedia has to be going bonkers. It's like like they ran the the Porsche over a cliff. I don't see G&A recovering.


I'm going to make it a point to buy the next 2-3 issues to bolster sales for doing the right thing....


Mike
_________________________
God, Family, and Country.
NRA Endowment Member



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#8230313 - 11/06/13 09:50 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Tracks]
Mannlicher Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 41405
Loc: N. Central Florida, and Miami
Originally Posted By: Tracks
The editor should have fired himself as well.


bingo!!!

However, the real bottom line is that what Dick Metcalf said was not a problem until the explosive push back from readers (and probably advertisers) hit the fan.
At THAT point, it became important to the editor. Not before.



Edited by Mannlicher (11/06/13 09:52 PM)
_________________________
Sam......

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#8230379 - 11/07/13 12:10 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Mannlicher]
RoninPhx Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 5767
Loc: arizona
i know in my case i sent them an email to cancil subscription a couple of days ago, they acknowleged it yesterday with a refund coming.
i mentioned metcalf as a reason for stopping it, although i have to say wasn't really happy with it before.
Interesting they are owned by the same media outlet as shotgun news.
I have taken that for years partially from having known the original owner and family.
lately the articles just seem like shill articles for various manufacturers to stimulate sales.
_________________________
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO

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#8230402 - 11/07/13 02:27 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: RoninPhx]
JohnMoses Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 17879
Loc: Mississippi
You ain't gonna get an honest product review from any of them, period...

They beat around the bush, carefully wording everything. It's the same old generic crap you see so much you can recite it in your sleep. sleep

Praise, followed by a minor critique with a big "But" at the end, closely followed by more praise...

Predictable, boring and usually a waste of eyesight.

I'd much rather ask a friend who has spent coin to buy the item and used it, than rely on some gun rag that lives off advertising dollars to give me the straight skinny on a piece of equipment.

That goes double when it's a product from one of their major advertisers.

This board has been infinitely more valuable when it comes to opinions on products than all the gun rags in history put together.

The old Soviet news agency TASS had about as much credibility as these gun mag reviews do nowadays..

I look forward to what JB, Wayne Van zwoll have to say and that's just about it.
_________________________

www.pronghornsling.com

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#8230404 - 11/07/13 02:33 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: JohnMoses]
Gibby Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/05/13
Posts: 1871
Loc: Next to Her
JM-

Ditto
_________________________
"The Patriot" staring Mel Gibby

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#8230565 - 11/07/13 05:01 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: JohnMoses]
EthanEdwards Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 32360
Loc: Four States
Originally Posted By: JohnMoses
You ain't gonna get an honest product review from any of them, period...

They beat around the bush, carefully wording everything. It's the same old generic crap you see so much you can recite it in your sleep. sleep

Praise, followed by a minor critique with a big "But" at the end, closely followed by more praise...

Predictable, boring and usually a waste of eyesight.

I'd much rather ask a friend who has spent coin to buy the item and used it, than rely on some gun rag that lives off advertising dollars to give me the straight skinny on a piece of equipment.

That goes double when it's a product from one of their major advertisers.

This board has been infinitely more valuable when it comes to opinions on products than all the gun rags in history put together.

The old Soviet news agency TASS had about as much credibility as these gun mag reviews do nowadays..

I look forward to what JB, Wayne Van zwoll have to say and that's just about it.
I have to agree with this. I very, very seldom buy a gun magazine anymore. Plus there is the fact that magazines and paperbacks, the latter especially, have doubled in price in the past few years. You pay more and get less.
_________________________
Jesus is Lord.

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#8230567 - 11/07/13 05:02 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: EthanEdwards]
EthanEdwards Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 32360
Loc: Four States
Another thing is that half the magazines anymore are these real thick compilations and if you don't watch out, it's stuff you've already read before. Plus over half of the mag is a catalog that's half-assed itself.

...and they normally cost about a ten-spot.


Edited by EthanEdwards (11/07/13 05:03 AM)
_________________________
Jesus is Lord.

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#8230626 - 11/07/13 05:34 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: DINK]
Foxbat Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 13675
Loc: Spring Hill, FL
Originally Posted By: DINK
The comments on anti-guns and anti-ammo Facebook page are great (I stole the anti-comment from there).

It's to bad most people are only blaming Metcalf and posted they would still buy the magazine if he were fired.

There are a whole bunch more Anti-gun people at that magazine.

Who did Zumbo write for when he went anti?


Dink


Outdoor Life.
_________________________





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#8230638 - 11/07/13 05:40 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Foxbat]
Gibby Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/05/13
Posts: 1871
Loc: Next to Her
I have not read the rag since the issue that said the Taurus 1911 was as good a any other 1911. About 15 years ago.
_________________________
"The Patriot" staring Mel Gibby

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#8230871 - 11/07/13 06:59 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Gibby]
Mntngoat Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 2105
Loc: Kalifornia
G & A stopped being relevant about 20 years ago.

ML
_________________________
My biggest fear is when I die my wife sells all my gear for what I said I paid for it.

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#8230922 - 11/07/13 07:14 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
steve4102 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 1670
Loc: Duluth, MN
Sorry, I'm not impressed.
Bequette published the Article, he read the article, he knew what was in the article, he knew what the article meant, IMO he Agrees with the Article. Then when his subscribers get pissed, he fires the author of the article. That's pretty Chicken [bleep].

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Metcalf is gone, we have enough problems trying to protect out rights, we don't need people like him writing anti Second Amendment articles in the future.

Then Berquette, throws us another bone saying he is resigning as well. Well, not really resigning because of his actions, just resigning a few day/weeks early. Thanks for nothin.

IMO there is no apology that can fix the damage this article will generate. The Antis and the Bradys will wave this article in our faces for months to come.


Edited by steve4102 (11/07/13 07:14 AM)
_________________________
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.

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#8231116 - 11/07/13 08:07 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: steve4102]
hatari Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 7375
Loc: Atlanta
I read Metcaff's article last night, twice. If you read it carefully, all he was trying to say is everything in the world has rules attached to it, and he didn't have a problem with Illinois requiring 16 hours of instruction prior to getting a CCW permit.

His point was he believed some training in firearms safety and handling was reasonable a not an infringement. He closed by saying "that's just me" on the subject. I don't have a problem with the discussion. It's a valid discussion.

Problem is that it was far too easy for the ANTI's to grab that and make a headline a la:
"GUNS and AMMO Supports Gun Control".

Metcaff thought he was writing only to savvy gun owners on a mutual topic of interest. In reality, his was a political Op Ed that he is not prepared to defend once it is dissected and misrepresented now, and for years to come.

Metcaff overstepped his boundaries without realizing the consequences. He knows now.

I wouldn't have fired him, I'd have made him write a retraction.
_________________________
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." - Han Solo

"Diana should forbid all first timers from fulling their wish lists. All hunters need something to remember and something to dream of." - Hatari 2011

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#8231166 - 11/07/13 08:20 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: steve4102]
Foxbat Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 13675
Loc: Spring Hill, FL
Originally Posted By: steve4102
Sorry, I'm not impressed.
Bequette published the Article, he read the article, he knew what was in the article, he knew what the article meant, IMO he Agrees with the Article. Then when his subscribers get pissed, he fires the author of the article. That's pretty Chicken [bleep].


The dude (Bequette) resigned (was forced out) along with firing Metcalf, how is that chicken shyt? He fell on the same sword he used on Metcalf.


Quote:
From Jim Bequette, editor, “Guns & Ammo” Magazine:

As editor of “Guns & Ammo,” I owe each and every reader a personal apology.

No excuses, no backtracking.

Dick Metcalf’s “Backstop” column in the December issue has aroused unprecedented controversy. Readers are hopping mad about it, and some are questioning “Guns & Ammo”’s commitment to the Second Amendment. I understand why.

Let me be clear: Our commitment to the Second Amendment is unwavering. It has been so since the beginning. Historically, our tradition in supporting the Second Amendment has been unflinching. No strings attached. It is no accident that when others in the gun culture counseled compromise in the past, hard-core thinkers such as Harlon Carter, Don Kates and Neal Knox found a place and a voice in these pages. When large firearms advocacy groups were going soft in the 1970s, they were prodded in the right direction, away from the pages of “Guns & Ammo.”

In publishing Metcalf’s column, I was untrue to that tradition, and for that I apologize. His views do not represent mine — nor, most important, “Guns & Ammo”’s. It is very clear to me that they don’t reflect the views of our readership either.

Dick Metcalf has had a long and distinguished career as a gunwriter, but his association with “Guns & Ammo” has officially ended.

I once again offer my personal apology. I understand what our valued readers want. I understand what you believe in when it comes to gun rights, and I believe the same thing.

I made a mistake by publishing the column. I thought it would generate a healthy exchange of ideas on gun rights. I miscalculated, pure and simple. I was wrong, and I ask your forgiveness.

Plans were already in place for a new editor to take the reins of “Guns & Ammo” on January 1. However, these recent events have convinced me that I should advance that schedule immediately.

Your new “Guns & Ammo” editor will be Eric R. Poole, who has so effectively been running our special interest publications, such as “Book of the AR-15” and “TRIGGER.” You will be hearing much more about this talented editor soon.

“Guns & Ammo” will never fail to vigorously lead the struggle for our Second Amendment rights, and with vigorous young editorial leadership such as Eric’s, it will be done even better in the future.

Respectfully,

Jim Bequette


http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/11/06/response-december-2013-backpage-column/
_________________________





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#8231179 - 11/07/13 08:26 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: hatari]
ruraldoc Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 3016
Loc: alabama
If I recall correctly,this will be the second time in Metcalfe's gun writing career that he has been dismissed for an error in judgement.

The first,if I recall correctly involved issues with checking accounts that he opened for a Smith and Wesson sponsored match,in which money was diverted from real accounts that required cosigners to Metcalfe's account.

Smith and Wesson pulled their sponsorship,and an article was published detailing the whole mess.

It has been a few years and the details of all this are hard for me to recall,but if I am right,this is not the first time Dick has been fired as a gun writer.



Edited by ruraldoc (11/07/13 08:45 AM)

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#8231191 - 11/07/13 08:30 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: EthanEdwards]
pira114 Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/02/11
Posts: 3659
Loc: Sierra Nevadas, Ca.
Originally Posted By: EthanEdwards
Originally Posted By: JohnMoses
You ain't gonna get an honest product review from any of them, period...

They beat around the bush, carefully wording everything. It's the same old generic crap you see so much you can recite it in your sleep. sleep

Praise, followed by a minor critique with a big "But" at the end, closely followed by more praise...

Predictable, boring and usually a waste of eyesight.

I'd much rather ask a friend who has spent coin to buy the item and used it, than rely on some gun rag that lives off advertising dollars to give me the straight skinny on a piece of equipment.

That goes double when it's a product from one of their major advertisers.

This board has been infinitely more valuable when it comes to opinions on products than all the gun rags in history put together.

The old Soviet news agency TASS had about as much credibility as these gun mag reviews do nowadays..

I look forward to what JB, Wayne Van zwoll have to say and that's just about it.
I have to agree with this. I very, very seldom buy a gun magazine anymore. Plus there is the fact that magazines and paperbacks, the latter especially, have doubled in price in the past few years. You pay more and get less.


I haven't read one in years. All they are is advertising for sponsors.

When's the last time you read a negative review of any product they talk about? I swear you could put a brand name on a pile of dog crap and they'd say it was just as good as anything they've seen.

I'm glad they got rid of him, but it ain't gonna make me put money in their product.
_________________________



Glóir don Athair agus don Mhac
agus don Spiorad Naomh;
Mar a bhí ar dtús, mar atá anois agus
mar a bheas go brách, le saol na saol. Amen.

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#8231193 - 11/07/13 08:30 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Foxbat]
RoninPhx Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 5767
Loc: arizona
I have taken one of their sister publications, shotgun news, for probably 25 or 30 years. Since the parent corporation, also of guns and ammo bought it, i see quite a few shill articles as i call them appearing, shilling for various manufacturers. They still do have good articles on military weapons around the world, and of course i like to peruse the advertisers. But you can sure see the effect of the parent corporation. I also have a friend that writes for a major gun related magazine. I have heard his complaints about articles submitted being butchered by the editor in charge. Some here could probably relate to that. The forum is a real good source of real information, which is one of the reasons i stay here, other than the entertainment factor.


Edited by RoninPhx (11/07/13 08:31 AM)
_________________________
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO

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#8231221 - 11/07/13 08:42 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: hatari]
5sdad Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 17529
Loc: South of Minnesota
Originally Posted By: hatari
I read Metcaff's article last night, twice. If you read it carefully, all he was trying to say is everything in the world has rules attached to it, and he didn't have a problem with Illinois requiring 16 hours of instruction prior to getting a CCW permit.

His point was he believed some training in firearms safety and handling was reasonable a not an infringement. He closed by saying "that's just me" on the subject. I don't have a problem with the discussion. It's a valid discussion.

Problem is that it was far too easy for the ANTI's to grab that and make a headline a la:
"GUNS and AMMO Supports Gun Control".

Metcaff thought he was writing only to savvy gun owners on a mutual topic of interest. In reality, his was a political Op Ed that he is not prepared to defend once it is dissected and misrepresented now, and for years to come.

Metcaff overstepped his boundaries without realizing the consequences. He knows now.

I wouldn't have fired him, I'd have made him write a retraction.


Huge's thread on the paradox of liberty sort of fits in here.
_________________________
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.

Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)

Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.

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#8231320 - 11/07/13 09:08 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
GeoW Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 9579
Loc: Land of Cotton
Is there a link to the article? I haven't bought gun rags in years.
_________________________
As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now let us show them we can fight like men also.
---Thomas Jefferson

Can't you see the sunshine.... Can't you just feel the moonshine smile
----James Taylor





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#8231365 - 11/07/13 09:25 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: hatari]
deflave Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 31018
Loc: Havre, Montana
Originally Posted By: hatari
I read Metcaff's article last night, twice. If you read it carefully, all he was trying to say is everything in the world has rules attached to it, and he didn't have a problem with Illinois requiring 16 hours of instruction prior to getting a CCW permit.

His point was he believed some training in firearms safety and handling was reasonable a not an infringement. He closed by saying "that's just me" on the subject. I don't have a problem with the discussion. It's a valid discussion.

Problem is that it was far too easy for the ANTI's to grab that and make a headline a la:
"GUNS and AMMO Supports Gun Control".

Metcaff thought he was writing only to savvy gun owners on a mutual topic of interest. In reality, his was a political Op Ed that he is not prepared to defend once it is dissected and misrepresented now, and for years to come.

Metcaff overstepped his boundaries without realizing the consequences. He knows now.

I wouldn't have fired him, I'd have made him write a retraction.


He and the editor can GFT.

Making a living off the gun industry while typing out their stupid ass, leftist, holier-than-thou, thoughts is completely unacceptable.



Travis

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#8231448 - 11/07/13 09:56 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: deflave]
temmi Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 8973
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: deflave
Originally Posted By: hatari
I read Metcaff's article last night, twice. If you read it carefully, all he was trying to say is everything in the world has rules attached to it, and he didn't have a problem with Illinois requiring 16 hours of instruction prior to getting a CCW permit.

His point was he believed some training in firearms safety and handling was reasonable a not an infringement. He closed by saying "that's just me" on the subject. I don't have a problem with the discussion. It's a valid discussion.

Problem is that it was far too easy for the ANTI's to grab that and make a headline a la:
"GUNS and AMMO Supports Gun Control".

Metcaff thought he was writing only to savvy gun owners on a mutual topic of interest. In reality, his was a political Op Ed that he is not prepared to defend once it is dissected and misrepresented now, and for years to come.

Metcaff overstepped his boundaries without realizing the consequences. He knows now.

I wouldn't have fired him, I'd have made him write a retraction.


He and the editor can GFT.

Making a living off the gun industry while typing out their stupid ass, leftist, holier-than-thou, thoughts is completely unacceptable.



Travis


They should publish a retraction
_________________________
That which does not kill us makes us stronger

Friedrich Nietzsche

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#8231452 - 11/07/13 09:57 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: temmi]
deflave Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 31018
Loc: Havre, Montana
Originally Posted By: temmi


They should publish a retraction


The magazine certainly should.



Travis

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#8231560 - 11/07/13 10:42 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: deflave]
KDK Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 5879
Loc: home in OR!
I haven't read the column... Truth be told, I quit reading anything my Metcalf when H&K released the USP and he made a bunch of highly technical stuff sound like his original work, and then a couple of months later, I read the same thing, virtually word for word, from a USP brochure. Probably not technically dishonest, but certainly blurring the lines. I thought he was a blowhard before, but the article cemented his status as a major league tool.
_________________________
“It occurred to me that nothing in life vanishes as irretrievably as a lost fish.”
John Gierach

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#8231632 - 11/07/13 11:10 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: KDK]
gmsemel Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 5236
Loc: East Haddam, CT
Well he joins that other Legend in his own mind Jim Zumbo!
_________________________
"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."

Anton Chekhov



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#8231636 - 11/07/13 11:11 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: JohnMoses]
Redneck Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 36903
Loc: TAXHELLWI. USA
Originally Posted By: JohnMoses
You ain't gonna get an honest product review from any of them, period...

They beat around the bush, carefully wording everything. It's the same old generic crap you see so much you can recite it in your sleep. sleep

Praise, followed by a minor critique with a big "But" at the end, closely followed by more praise...

Predictable, boring and usually a waste of eyesight.

I'd much rather ask a friend who has spent coin to buy the item and used it, than rely on some gun rag that lives off advertising dollars to give me the straight skinny on a piece of equipment.

That goes double when it's a product from one of their major advertisers.

This board has been infinitely more valuable when it comes to opinions on products than all the gun rags in history put together.

The old Soviet news agency TASS had about as much credibility as these gun mag reviews do nowadays..
Well stated, and spot on...


Good riddance to Metcalf; AFAIC you either support the 2A or ya don't - and he just plain DIDN'T..
_________________________

NSA & Zero - Hey! GFY..
NRA Endowment member.
Ex - USN(TM3-SS) USS Razorback SS-394 '68-'69

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#8232086 - 11/07/13 02:02 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: NathanL]
VarmintGuy Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 6284
Loc: SW Montana
NathanL: They both should have been fired!
G&A is now on my NO BUY list.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

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#8232166 - 11/07/13 02:32 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: hatari]
Eric308 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 214
This discussion is a sad reminder of how members of the firearms culture have devolved from sane, respectful sportsmen, marksmen and collectors to isolated, paranoid, disaffected crazies.

If that is the future of the hobby, better it to die an honorable death than linger as a refuge for doomsday fantasists.
_________________________
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -Isaac Asimov


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#8232172 - 11/07/13 02:34 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Eric308]
teal Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 22531
Loc: Missing, Presumed Dead
Originally Posted By: Eric308
This discussion is a sad reminder of how members of the firearms culture have devolved from sane, respectful sportsmen, marksmen and collectors to isolated, paranoid, disaffected crazies.

If that is the future of the hobby, better it to die an honorable death than linger as a refuge for doomsday fantasists.


It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.
_________________________
Andrew


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#8232196 - 11/07/13 02:44 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Eric308]
Kentucky_Windage Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 5294
Loc: San Antonio
Originally Posted By: Eric308
This discussion is a sad reminder of how members of the firearms culture have devolved from sane, respectful sportsmen, marksmen and collectors to isolated, paranoid, disaffected crazies.


To exercise a bit of editor's discretion, here's what you should have wrote: This discussion is a sad reminder of how American citizens have devolved from sane, respectful people into intolerant, self-absorbed, low-information crazies.

But don't worry. I'm not cancelling any subscriptions.
_________________________
If you're fixin' to put a hole in something,
make it a hole to remember.

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#8232212 - 11/07/13 02:47 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Eric308]
deflave Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 31018
Loc: Havre, Montana
Originally Posted By: Eric308
This discussion is a sad reminder of how members of the firearms culture have devolved from sane, respectful sportsmen, marksmen and collectors to isolated, paranoid, disaffected crazies.

If that is the future of the hobby, better it to die an honorable death than linger as a refuge for doomsday fantasists.


People like you are the reason I have to wait 15 months for a fukkking tube that makes my rifle not loud.


Travis

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#8232251 - 11/07/13 02:55 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Eric308]
rte Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 2575
Originally Posted By: Eric308
This discussion is a sad reminder of how members of the firearms culture have devolved from sane, respectful sportsmen, marksmen and collectors to isolated, paranoid, disaffected crazies.
If that is the future of the hobby, better it to die an honorable death than linger as a refuge for doomsday fantasists.


This is rich coming from an Obama ball washer.

It's your party that has used every dirty trick in the book to damage all of our personal liberties,especially our second amendment.So you can take your assessment and shove it up your ass.
_________________________
Communist Goals

26. Present homosexuality and degeneracy as normal.
27. Discredit the Bible.
28. Eliminate prayer in the schools.

http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm

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#8232341 - 11/07/13 03:20 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: rte]
WoodsStalker Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 501
I am glad the POS is gone.
_________________________
The foundation for old age is good memories.

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#8232477 - 11/07/13 04:08 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: WoodsStalker]
Dave_Skinner Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 5221
Loc: The Treasure State
I'm in Hatari's camp on this one. Metcalf was ragging on the lack of safe conduct by many shooters, which probably irritated him enough that he didn't think through what he was writing.
Getting a CCW is a serious step. You dang well better know what you are doing with what you carry...and I wish more people of all stripes were more competent with their guns.
But government mandates tend to get out of hand, especially in hostile states like Illinois, so it was a huge and dangerous no mans land he was asking to cross. He didn't make it, and somehow I'm not sorry. His argument using driver licensing showed the shallowness of his thinking, for one thing.
So -- sayonara, Dick. Hope your replacement is smarter.
_________________________
Up hills slow, Down hills fast Tonnage first and Safety last.

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#8232637 - 11/07/13 04:48 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Eric308]
Tarkio Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1118
Originally Posted By: Eric308
This discussion is a sad reminder of how members of the firearms culture have devolved from sane, respectful sportsmen, marksmen and collectors to isolated, paranoid, disaffected crazies.

If that is the future of the hobby, better it to die an honorable death than linger as a refuge for doomsday fantasists.


Your post reminds me of why I despise the self-appointed intelligentsia of the world.

I am so f'ing glad to know that you have the superior knowledge to determine how everyone else in our culture should act with regard to their unalienable rights.

By the way, I do not see my right to property, to free-speech, to associate with those I choose, to own firearms, etc. as a hobby you insufferable prick.

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#8232660 - 11/07/13 04:55 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Eric308]
gitem_12 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 6783
Originally Posted By: Eric308
This discussion is a sad reminder of how members of the firearms culture have devolved from sane, respectful sportsmen, marksmen and collectors to isolated, paranoid, disaffected crazies.

If that is the future of the hobby, better it to die an honorable death than linger as a refuge for doomsday fantasists.



You are either a full fledged commie, or live in California. Either way. You're clueless as to the attacks our basic. GUARANTEED RIGHTS are constantly under. You sir should pull your lower lip over your head and swallow...hard
_________________________
if I do that again, I'll swallow my pride, sit to piss like a woman, and not touch a damn thing.- Gunner500


Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell




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#8232689 - 11/07/13 05:03 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: gitem_12]
passport Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 7069
Loc: Rockford, MI
can someone post the article that got Dick canned? I cant seem to find it
_________________________
It’s a magazine not a clip......

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#8232716 - 11/07/13 05:08 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Dave_Skinner]
deflave Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 31018
Loc: Havre, Montana
Originally Posted By: Dave_Skinner
I'm in Hatari's camp on this one. Metcalf was ragging on the lack of safe conduct by many shooters, which probably irritated him enough that he didn't think through what he was writing.
Getting a CCW is a serious step. You dang well better know what you are doing with what you carry...and I wish more people of all stripes were more competent with their guns.
But government mandates tend to get out of hand, especially in hostile states like Illinois, so it was a huge and dangerous no mans land he was asking to cross. He didn't make it, and somehow I'm not sorry. His argument using driver licensing showed the shallowness of his thinking, for one thing.
So -- sayonara, Dick. Hope your replacement is smarter.


I don't give a schit if somebody can't hit the broad side of a GD barn.

It is their right to put a handgun in their damn pocket and carry if they feel like it.

Dick's just another elitist prick. Obviously...



Travis

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#8232727 - 11/07/13 05:12 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Bigbuck215]
djs Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 16809
Loc: Virginia
I read the column and found it a rational discussion of a controversial issue. Basically, Metcalf was saying that no law or constitutional amendment) is unequivocal. The first amendment guarantees free speech, but you can't yell "FIRE" in a movie theater.

Same thing with guns; some regulation (hopefully minimal) can be warranted to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill or criminals, or to regulate where they can be fired (not downtown or in a crowded area).

Metcalf's column was not out of line. Sorry to hear that G&A took the cowardly path to avoid controversy (and dollar loss).

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#8232733 - 11/07/13 05:13 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: djs]
deflave Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 31018
Loc: Havre, Montana
Originally Posted By: djs
I read the column and found it a rational discussion of a controversial issue. Basically, Metcalf was saying that no law or constitutional amendment) is unequivocal. The first amendment guarantees free speech, but you can't yell "FIRE" in a movie theater.

Same thing with guns; some regulation (hopefully minimal) can be warranted to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill or criminals, or to regulate where they can be fired (not downtown or in a crowded area).

Metcalf's column was not out of line. Sorry to hear that G&A took the cowardly path to avoid controversy (and dollar loss).


Sorry to hear people like you enjoy the freedoms we fight for.



Travis

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#8232748 - 11/07/13 05:17 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: gitem_12]
djs Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 16809
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: gitem_12
Originally Posted By: Eric308
This discussion is a sad reminder of how members of the firearms culture have devolved from sane, respectful sportsmen, marksmen and collectors to isolated, paranoid, disaffected crazies.

If that is the future of the hobby, better it to die an honorable death than linger as a refuge for doomsday fantasists.



You are either a full fledged commie, or live in California. Either way. You're clueless as to the attacks our basic. GUARANTEED RIGHTS are constantly under. You sir should pull your lower lip over your head and swallow...hard


"You're clueless as to the attacks our basic GUARANTEED RIGHTS are constantly under."

Yes, our rights are under attack, but as to "GUARANTEED RIGHTS", they are subject to some regulations, such as to where you can discharge a firearm, who can possess one, the possession of fully-automatic firearms, etc. I think this is what Metcalf was referring to.

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#8232768 - 11/07/13 05:21 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: deflave]
djs Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 16809
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: deflave
Originally Posted By: djs
I read the column and found it a rational discussion of a controversial issue. Basically, Metcalf was saying that no law or constitutional amendment) is unequivocal. The first amendment guarantees free speech, but you can't yell "FIRE" in a movie theater.

Same thing with guns; some regulation (hopefully minimal) can be warranted to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill or criminals, or to regulate where they can be fired (not downtown or in a crowded area).

Metcalf's column was not out of line. Sorry to hear that G&A took the cowardly path to avoid controversy (and dollar loss).


Sorry to hear people like you enjoy the freedoms we fight for.



Travis


You mean like the freedom to just shoot up the town of Havre, Montana in a drunken stupor at 9 AM as kids are going to school? Why don't you do this and then explain to the sheriff (and judge) that you are just exercising your constitutionally guaranteed rights.

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#8232778 - 11/07/13 05:23 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: djs]
gitem_12 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 6783
Originally Posted By: djs
I read the column and found it a rational discussion of a controversial issue. Basically, Metcalf was saying that no law or constitutional amendment) is unequivocal. The first amendment guarantees free speech, but you can't yell "FIRE" in a movie theater.

Same thing with guns; some regulation (hopefully minimal) can be warranted to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill or criminals, or to regulate where they can be fired (not downtown or in a crowded area).

Metcalf's column was not out of line. Sorry to hear that G&A took the cowardly path to avoid controversy (and dollar loss).



You most certainly can yell fire in a crowded theatre. But you must accept the responsibility of the consequences that come afterwards. That is what Metcalfe doesnt get. He believes we should replace responsibility with regulation. He also gets into a rant about the wording if the second and is completely off base. The " well regulated". Meant. Didnt not mean heavily ruled. It meant of similar fashion. This is outlined in the federalist papers.

Metcalfe, according to my thoughts on what he wrote. Feels that by imposing unnessecary limitations on our rights we can disregard the lack of responsibility of some gun owners. This is wrong thinking.
_________________________
if I do that again, I'll swallow my pride, sit to piss like a woman, and not touch a damn thing.- Gunner500


Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell




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#8232789 - 11/07/13 05:25 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: Mannlicher]
djs Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 16809
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: Mannlicher
Originally Posted By: Tracks
The editor should have fired himself as well.


bingo!!!

However, the real bottom line is that what Dick Metcalf said was not a problem until the explosive push back from readers (and probably advertisers) hit the fan.
At THAT point, it became important to the editor. Not before.



Good observation.

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#8232810 - 11/07/13 05:29 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: djs]
gitem_12 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 6783
Originally Posted By: djs
Originally Posted By: gitem_12
Originally Posted By: Eric308
This discussion is a sad reminder of how members of the firearms culture have devolved from sane, respectful sportsmen, marksmen and collectors to isolated, paranoid, disaffected crazies.

If that is the future of the hobby, better it to die an honorable death than linger as a refuge for doomsday fantasists.



You are either a full fledged commie, or live in California. Either way. You're clueless as to the attacks our basic. GUARANTEED RIGHTS are constantly under. You sir should pull your lower lip over your head and swallow...hard


"You're clueless as to the attacks our basic GUARANTEED RIGHTS are constantly under."

Yes, our rights are under attack, but as to "GUARANTEED RIGHTS", they are subject to some regulations, such as to where you can discharge a firearm, who can possess one, the possession of fully-automatic firearms, etc. I think this is what Metcalf was referring to.


Again. You mistake what the founders menat by "regulated".
_________________________
if I do that again, I'll swallow my pride, sit to piss like a woman, and not touch a damn thing.- Gunner500


Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell




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#8232841 - 11/07/13 05:36 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: gitem_12]
anachronism Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 1076
Loc: Lincoln, NE


_________________________
We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all.
-Theodore Roosevelt-




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#8232871 - 11/07/13 05:46 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: gitem_12]
djs Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 16809
Loc: Virginia
A very interesting read in the discussion of "regulated" is the February 1982 Report to the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the US Senate Committee on the Judiciary (Senator Orin Hatch, Chairman) entitled "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms". It was printed in 31 years ago and is now out of print, but it might be available online.

It is a 175 page report that discusses the historical and legal aspects of firearms regulation.


Edited by djs (11/07/13 05:47 PM)

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#8232945 - 11/07/13 06:08 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: djs]
deflave Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 31018
Loc: Havre, Montana
Originally Posted By: djs


You mean like the freedom to just shoot up the town of Havre, Montana in a drunken stupor at 9 AM as kids are going to school? Why don't you do this and then explain to the sheriff (and judge) that you are just exercising your constitutionally guaranteed rights.


Thanks for proving what we already knew. You're a fukkking moron.



Travis

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#8232981 - 11/07/13 06:19 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: anachronism]
T_O_M Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 3831
Loc: State of Jefferson
Excellent!!!

Tom
_________________________
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a Möbius strip.

Here be dragons ...

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#8233167 - 11/07/13 07:10 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: T_O_M]
RobJordan Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 2992
Loc: Kalifornia (unfortunately)
So, what exactly did Metcalfe say that wasn't the truth---or have we become like the far left, just excommunicate those who tell truths we don't happen to like?

Jordan
_________________________
Communists: I still hate them, even after they changed their name to "Liberals".
_____

You can give peace a chance. I'll cover you if it doesn't work out.

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#8233170 - 11/07/13 07:11 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: T_O_M]
RobJordan Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 2992
Loc: Kalifornia (unfortunately)
So, what exactly did Metcalfe say that wasn't the truth---or have we become like the far left, just excommunicate those who tell truths we don't happen to like?

Jordan
_________________________
Communists: I still hate them, even after they changed their name to "Liberals".
_____

You can give peace a chance. I'll cover you if it doesn't work out.

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#8233618 - 11/08/13 01:05 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: hatari]
jwp475 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 17553
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: hatari
I read Metcaff's article last night, twice. If you read it carefully, all he was trying to say is everything in the world has rules attached to it, and he didn't have a problem with Illinois requiring 16 hours of instruction prior to getting a CCW permit.

His point was he believed some training in firearms safety and handling was reasonable a not an infringement. He closed by saying "that's just me" on the subject. I don't have a problem with the discussion. It's a valid discussion.

Problem is that it was far too easy for the ANTI's to grab that and make a headline a la:
"GUNS and AMMO Supports Gun Control".

Metcaff thought he was writing only to savvy gun owners on a mutual topic of interest. In reality, his was a political Op Ed that he is not prepared to defend once it is dissected and misrepresented now, and for years to come.

Metcaff overstepped his boundaries without realizing the consequences. He knows now.

I wouldn't have fired him, I'd have made him write a retraction.



Metcalfe was an inaccurate writer to begin with and was of extremely limited knowledge and ability he should have been canned years ago.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
….they WAY over penetrate on deer...


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#8233899 - 11/08/13 05:36 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: RobJordan]
deflave Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 31018
Loc: Havre, Montana
Originally Posted By: RobJordan
So, what exactly did Metcalfe say that wasn't the truth---or have we become like the far left, just excommunicate those who tell truths we don't happen to like?

Jordan


You didn't read the article?



Travis

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#8233906 - 11/08/13 05:41 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: jwp475]
jimy Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 888
Loc: South Peyton Place, USA
The story made CBS national news this morning, as expected, what an ass.
_________________________
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#8233968 - 11/08/13 05:57 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: jimy]
shrapnel Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 9370
Loc: Bozeman, MT
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Where does it say anything about regulating the people's right to bear arms. You are either for or against the second amendment and those of you that are parasites, and want to support the regulating of firearms while owning them yourself for your personal pleasure at the cost of everyone else that has fought and continues to fight for this "unregulated" right, join Brentd and the rest of the blood suckers that frequent this site and stay clear of the rest of us that don't sacrifice principles/rights for some misunderstood cause...
_________________________
Originally Posted By: deflave
If you want to fit in with a new crowd, ask them if they know shrapnel. There is no friggin' way they won't know who that man is. He is the Chuck Norris of Montana and you will have a nice icebreaker to discuss.
Travis



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#8234071 - 11/08/13 06:32 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: shrapnel]
rickmenefee Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 05/27/10
Posts: 1875
Loc: gods counrty
He is a traitor!!!!


Edited by rickmenefee (11/08/13 06:33 AM)
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#8234090 - 11/08/13 06:37 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: djs]
rost495 Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 32767
Loc: La Grange, TX
Originally Posted By: djs
Originally Posted By: deflave
Originally Posted By: djs
I read the column and found it a rational discussion of a controversial issue. Basically, Metcalf was saying that no law or constitutional amendment) is unequivocal. The first amendment guarantees free speech, but you can't yell "FIRE" in a movie theater.

Same thing with guns; some regulation (hopefully minimal) can be warranted to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill or criminals, or to regulate where they can be fired (not downtown or in a crowded area).

Metcalf's column was not out of line. Sorry to hear that G&A took the cowardly path to avoid controversy (and dollar loss).


Sorry to hear people like you enjoy the freedoms we fight for.



Travis


You mean like the freedom to just shoot up the town of Havre, Montana in a drunken stupor at 9 AM as kids are going to school? Why don't you do this and then explain to the sheriff (and judge) that you are just exercising your constitutionally guaranteed rights.


What a dumb statement, or likely an ignorant one. Its not like that's not illegal in many ways to already do.

Want a news flash? Want to get rid of most DWI? Ban cars... duh.
_________________________
May the road rise to meet you, May the wind be always at your back, May the sun shine warm upon your face, The rains fall soft upon your fields and, Until we meet again, May God hold you in the palm of His hand.

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#8234356 - 11/08/13 08:00 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: deflave]
RobJordan Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 2992
Loc: Kalifornia (unfortunately)
Originally Posted By: deflave
Originally Posted By: RobJordan
So, what exactly did Metcalfe say that wasn't the truth---or have we become like the far left, just excommunicate those who tell truths we don't happen to like?

Jordan


You didn't read the article?



Travis


No. I just assumed he said something like reasonable restrictions are probably Constitutional, which is what our strongest originalist on the Court (Antonin Scalia) says. Now if Metcalfe had said there is no natural right to possess the means to defend oneself or to revolt against tyrannical government, then them would be fighting words. Did he say that? I think there is a natural rights (a right grounded in the laws of nature and of nature's God") to firearms ownership that trumps any enactment of positive law, i.e., any Constitutional right. Jefferson and the founders would say the same. As far as the Constitutional right, its inferior to the natural law right and is not absolute. That is just the way it is with Constitutional rights. Read the Heller opinion. All the conservative justices admit an original intent encompassing reasonable regulations/restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms. I'd say about 90% of the laws regulations out there (Fed and State) are unreasonable. And I'll tell you the most unreasonable: the notion that because you got convicted of felony tax evasion, or theft (or felony bitch slap) you can never own a firearm again. Don't think that is Constitutional.

Metcalfe may have been wrong. Its the excommunication of dissent I have a problem with. We're starting to act like the far left.

Jordan


Edited by RobJordan (11/08/13 08:01 AM)
_________________________
Communists: I still hate them, even after they changed their name to "Liberals".
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#8234368 - 11/08/13 08:05 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: RobJordan]
deflave Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 31018
Loc: Havre, Montana
Read the article and decide.

And yes, I will happily excommunicate any of his ilk. Somebody thinks along the same lines? I hope you fall out of your deer stand and end up with a see-thru mount sticking out of your forehead.

That's my stance, and I'm sticking to it.

'Flave 2016!


Travis

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#8234400 - 11/08/13 08:15 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: deflave]
R_H_Clark Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/09/11
Posts: 3614
Loc: NW Alabama
I think every gun owner and CCW permit carrier should have some idea of basic safety. I do not think it takes 16 hours to achieve this.

Metcalf apparently had no concept of how defensive the current attack on gun rights and ownership have made the gun owning public. I also consider him of the elitist attitude that he is more equal than others, thinking that it would require extensive training to bring others up to his own firearm competency level. We simply cannot have anyone of that attitude speaking for us in this age if we intend to retain any of our rights.

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#8234424 - 11/08/13 08:26 AM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: R_H_Clark]
deflave Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 31018
Loc: Havre, Montana
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
I think every gun owner and CCW permit carrier should have some idea of basic safety. I do not think it takes 16 hours to achieve this.



Yes.

And for the government to mandate that one complete a course before carrying is an infringement on our rights.

If I have a wife, and she needs to make an emergency, 300 mile road trip, I should be able to place a handgun in her hand, and tell her to carry this on her trip, and keep it in her purse when she stops at a rest area, etc. She shouldn't require a special class, or permit. I don't give a fukkk what her proficiency is. For the government to make her carrying a firearm, an illegal act is an infringement on our rights.

I knew Metcalfe was a fukkking hack when he touted the Taurus Judge.


Travis

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#8243863 - 11/11/13 12:50 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: deflave]
ruraldoc Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 3016
Loc: alabama
Originally Posted By: deflave
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
I think every gun owner and CCW permit carrier should have some idea of basic safety. I do not think it takes 16 hours to achieve this.



I knew Metcalfe was a fukkking hack when he touted the Taurus Judge.


Travis


Nailed it.

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#8244495 - 11/11/13 04:27 PM Re: Dick Metcalf...FIRED [Re: shrapnel]
Dave_in_WV Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 7109
Loc: West Virginia
Originally Posted By: shrapnel
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Where does it say anything about regulating the people's right to bear arms.


Early in the article Metcalf wrote the second amendment states "regulated" so firearm ownership is intended to be regulated (paraphrased by me). I picked up on it immediately knowing there's a comma between "militia" and "being" meaning there's a break in what is being said. The Militia is meant to be regulated as in meeting certain standards and ready to go. Metcalf screwed the pooch and is totally wrong in his thought process.
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