Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Ammo for Bushy M4A3

My Bushmaster M4A3 carbine, topped with an Eotech 512, is on its way and I need something to shoot in it. The sole purpose for this rifle is as a house gun. Accuracy is a secondary consideration (though more is always better) as functional reliability is a must. I need several thousand rounds of surplus to burn through it in order to establish good functioning and to practice situational shooting with the combination. My questions are twofold.

What is the best/cheapest surplus ammo for my purposes and where should I obtain it? Is there any ammo that I should avoid at all costs?

I certainly understand that accuracy is firearm specific, but on the average, is there any brand/type/weight that has a good reputation for accuracy and functioning that would be appropriate for home defence purposes, and where is the best place to acquire it?

Thanks in advance to all my fellow Campfire addicts! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jim

I would recommend that you get some Wolf Polymer cased ammo for practice and plinking, either the 55 gr or the 62 gr they may HP or FMJ, either will do fine.

Stay away from the Wolf M193, it is crap at it's best.


Get some Black Hills 68 or 69 gr HPBT for home defense.

This is copied from another site from another poster on AR15.com don't know how true or accurate it is but it is a starting point.

OK, the following rounds all meet the FBI's requirement for at least 12" of penetration in gel/soft tissue and will robustly expand (or fragment as is the case with some of the rifle ammo) even when passing through clothing:

9mm
-Winchester Ranger 127 gr +P+ JHP
-Winchester Ranger 147 gr JHP
-Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
-Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP
-Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP
-Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP

.40 S&W
-Winchester Ranger 180 gr JHP
-Winchester Ranger 165 gr JHP
-Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
-Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP
-Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP

.45 ACP
-Winchester Ranger 230 gr JHP
-Winchester Ranger 230 gr +P JHP
-Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP
-Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP

.357 Sig
-Winchester Ranger 125 gr JHP
-Speer Gold Dot 125 gr JHP

.223
-Black Hills or Hornady 75 gr OTM
-Black Hills or Federal 77 gr OTM
-Black Hills or Federal 69 gr OTM
-Black Hills 68 gr OTM
-Winchester Supreme Power Point Plus 64 gr JSP
-Federal 55 and 62 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw (these also penetrate deeply, even through barriers so be careful where you employ these rounds)
-Black Hills 60 gr SP

.308
-Hornady 155 gr TAP (with AMAX bullet)
-Federal 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
-Winchester Supreme 150 gr Ballistic Silvertip
-Loads using the 165 gr Sierra Game King

7.62X39mm
-Lapua 125 gr JSP
-Winchester Super-X 123 gr Power-Point

.30 Carbine
-Remington 110 gr JSP

12 Gauge
-Most any 00 or 000 buckshot loads will provide necessary penetration. However some may pattern better than others. The Federal Tactical 00 Buckshot is often a favorite.

Blammer:

Thanks for a wealth of information in just two short posts! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Could you recommend a source with good prices for the Wolf and Black Hills ammunition? Thanks!

Jim <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Blammer:

Thanks for a wealth of information in just two posts! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Can you recommend a reasonably priced source for the Wolf and Black Hills ammunition? Thanks for all your help!

Jim <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let me just add taht I've shot 69s all the way through a side by side ref/freezer at over 300 m. ALL the way through.

For a house gun, IE used inside the house, I'd have to have something much more frangible than anything listed to be fired in my house, or expect probable penetration from one side of the house to the other side. Could be very dangerous.
Another aside we built a bullet trap of 3/8 mild steel at an appx 45 degree angle for shooting 22 in the back yard. Crazy teenage gal came home one day and decides its time to practice sitting rapid fire with her 223 and 69s in the back yard. Takes a 50 foot target and blasts 10 complete holes at 50 feet THROUGH the steel. Oops. Again, too much for me.

I"d be thinking something 40-50 grainish varmint or ballistic tip type of projectile for this.

Also look at southern ohio gun, they list a ball round in a battle pack. Not sure of the brand but usually stuff from them in green plastic battle packs has been decent surplus ammo. FNM is very good.

Jeff

true on shooting through big thing but I believe they react differently when shot into flesh and ballistic gelatin....

We've shot 69s through flesh before too and were not at all impressed with performance. Plus what would happen if you miss your intended target? In the heat of the moment and all, everyone else in your house and possibly other houses are endangered and you may well end up the one in jail.

Out here in the country I'm ok, since all our kids(the dogs) sleep with us and the closest house is almost 100 and 200 yards away.... But in urban and other settings...

Jeff

FWIW:

Penetration issues are what make a 12 guage so useful in the home defense role.

I leave one round of Pheasant Loads (2 3/4 inch #4s)in the tube and 2 slugs + 2 buckshot in a Butt Cuff.

When the curtain call comes, rack the action to chamber the 4s, and move. Stuff Buck or slugs in the mag tube as conditions warrant. The 4s will kill an intruder RIGHT NOW and yet won't pencil through the walls and kill the baby 3 doors down.

Note that 99% of home defense encounters with a shotgun are over in 1 shot.

As for the Bushy, I say load 50 grain V-max's. They are hell on soft tissue and pretty frangible.

Good shooting,

BMT

In my house I'd leave the AR in the safe and go with a full tube of 6 shot in the 12 gauge. Anything more is not home defense but a Bruce Willis movie unless the home's in Africa.

Listen to Rost495, he is a good source of info...
I am a partol rifle instructor for a large metro PD and have done at least six ballistic gelatin tests for .223 ammo in the last two years. Stay away from the heavier stuff for household use. I recommend a 40-55 gr Ballistic Tip or VMAX loaded full tilt for home use. Even a 55 gr FMJ at household distances is better than the heavy stuff because its higher velocity allows the bulet to break up rather quickly, instead of overpenetrating.
The best advice is a 12 ga loaded with #4 buckshot.