Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Longer necks in the 300 Win Mag.

I don't understand this post.

Why would anyone care about the .300 Winchester having a longer neck? the neck is long enough to hold the bullets straight right now.

And why would anyone want to crimp bullets in .300 Winchester cases? They work just fine without crimping. Heck, I don't even crimp most .375 H&H loads.

IndyCA, Basically I have two separate reasons. First, I do notice an early failure rate with neck tension, which may be my brother's selection of brass cases. Secondly, I'm doing a parallel neck lengthening in a Wildcat 416 caliber, from .5 inch to .6 inch. This one does entail being able to roll crimp bullets made for the Rigby and Remington, respectively.

I use Hornady elliptical expanders, and these run -.002 inch from the bullet diameters. Some posters on this thread suggest squeezing the necks down more, but I'm sticking with the tried and true elliptical measurements. Also, of all the older thirty caliber rounds, only the 300 Sav. and the 300 Win Mag. seem to have such short necks. Yes, they both work, to a degree, but I've reloaded both, and I was unhappy with each of them.

So, turning it around, what's wrong with a .330 inch long neck in a thirty caliber magnum cartridge? It will still shoot the factory short necks, in a pinch. And even the thirty thirty bullets have cannelures farther up their shanks. If I use the H-4895 reduced loads, with these 170 gr. numbers, to develop my left hand snap shooting skills, the bullets will still protrude down into the case body. And at the lower pressures, those roll crimps may really help tighten up my groups. Right now, it's all guess work. But the 300 Win Mag has always been the shortest neck on the block, until the short magnums like the WSM's, came along. These, like the old 300 Sav., use shorter necks to fit them into shorty actions. And the modern WSM's may not be as reliable as the 300, when used in the old M-99 Savage spool magazines.

In my M-700 action, I don't need to make these compromises. And my brother's Weatherby Vanguard, has the longer magazine as well.

Am I straining at a gnat, "maybe". Would a 300 Winnie chamber with a neck long enough for a 300 H&H cartridge to chamber, be too freaky? I think so, since the 300 H&H is getting scarce on dealer's shelves, precisely because of all the newer WSM's and such. Today, the backup emergency round will be the factory 300 Win Mags, which are still fairly available, here.

And yes, I do know that the heaviest bullets to be used in the H4895 reduced loads only go up to 130 grains. But between them and full bore, the thirty thirty bullets have some utility uses on deer, and they are cheap.

My G.S. talked me down to +0.050" for the neck lengthening. I have made them up by trimming and re-forming 300 Wea. virgin brass, and pull downs. The reduced H-4895 loads are working just as I hoped they would.

I did find a H- 4895 load for a 165 gr. Sierra, in the 300 Win Mag column. So far I've used 150 and now 165 grain bullets. They seem to hit closer to the full power loads, than just using much lighter bullets.

As I expected, shooting a 300 Win Mag case in my rifle, only leaves a .250 long neck. Mine start out at .314 and F.L. size after shooting to .304". My Remington SS take off barrel has that much slop in its chamber's shoulders. I barely sized the trimmed Wea. cases until I can force the bolt closed. So there isn't any pull back with the long necks. They are staying about 0.310 inch long, after I kiss the shoulders with my F.L. sizing die.

I haven't had time to work up accuracy loads for the factory length necked cartridges. Only then will I know for sure that my accuracy hasn't been lost, using factory ammo.

This exercise has been like shooting those 165 gr. Sierras' in a Remington 722, 300 Savage, I had as a kid.

But to be honest, I did have to contact the Remington Techs, and order a more proper magazine follower. The Ultra Mag follower didn't work right with the smaller belted cases. I haven't had to mess with the receiver's feed rails, so far.

I am completely gobsmacked with the effort you have gone to to 'fix' a problem that never existed in the first place.
I run 3 rifles in 300Win for long range hunting and 1000yrd comp, none have a problem in regard to neck tension, nor do any need to be crimped, which in my opinion is detrimental to accuracy anyway.
Neck tension only needs to be sufficient to stop a bullet moving during recoil, nothing more, nothing less. It has no other function than to hold the bullet securely up until the cartridge is fired, in fact, a loaded round that has sat around for considerable time may in fact have super neck tension which can cause inconsistent ignition between rounds and poor accuracy, this is due to oxide forming and chemical welding between the brass case and guilding metal bullet. Consistent initial start pressure is far more important to accuracy than any misguided notion as to what the 'perfect' neck length should or is supposed to be.
There are many cartridges out there that produce exceptional accuracy with short necks, you may be interested to know that a lot of these cartridges also have tapered throats which seems to promote accuracy in an otherwise poorly designed cartridge, in some views.
I guess what I'm trying to portray is the fact that I don't comprehend what you're trying to achieve, good or bad.

Cheers.

I thought the longer neck version was called the 308 norma magnum???

Yup....my sentiments exactly.

WIthout reading any other posts... turbulence point comes to mind as one reason.

I can understand being less than enthused with the length of the neck on the 300 Win Mag,but I guess that's a concession the designers had to make in order to get the capacity for the cartridge,and also to distinguish it from the 30-338 wildcat that was floating around in those days,and the 308 Norma(don't know when that one came out); yet still get the case to 30/06 OAL which is what Winchester was trying to accomplish.

I hear that with some bullets, you had to seat them below the ogive so bullet grip was not what it should be.

Much of this is true in theory but it seems the case has enough neck to make it work fine in actual practice.I used to get around the deep seating by following Bob Hagel's advice of the day,building them around an action long enough to handle bullet seating at 3.5+"....which begs the question of "If you are going to do that,why not just get a 300 Weatherby and be done with it?"

That's logic I really can't argue with....

Audrey Hepburn had a long neck , too long for me. I never had a problem with the 300 win neck or any other part of the cartridge. In FA for me it is the best of the. 300 mag cartridges out there

Now that's just funny! In both cases.

Thanks

I think its time to let this one rest. I did this and am happy with it. Putting it up against the stock cartridge, neck resised, shows it was a good move. This may be a Remington thing, due to their loose chambers.

This is the largest 300 Magnum with published reduced loads, using H-4895. The larger Weatherbys and RUMs, aren't safe.

WAIT JUST A MINUTE !!!

I have about 20 cents worth to add before you cut it's throat (no pun intended)
First of all ,the 300 win mag was a mutant from the gitgo. The cartridge was comprimised by designing it with a long body & a too short neck, and then stuffed the bullets deep into it, so the cartridge would function in 30-06 length actions & magazines, all the while cheating it out of powder capacity .
Remember they designed this in 1962 to be released in 1963 !
At the time Winchester created this Marvel , there were only three rifles (bolt guns) that would take the full length H&H (2.850) cartridges ; The Magnum Mauser, Rem M700 and thier own Model 70 Magnum Action .
They took the path , they did, to introduce a cartridge which would gain popularity not only in thier own Rifles , but in competing manufacturer's rifles from around the World, functioning in the afformentioned 30-06 length actions .
Seating those 180 & 200 gr bullets into the propellant reservoir gave most Handloaders not only fits but in some cases even the Hives ! lol
One such fellow was indeed Fred Huntington (rip), and to such an extent , redesigned the cartridge into a more efficient & productive round .
Knowing full well , that the 300 Weatherby (at that point in time)was overbore capacity with the powders then currently available , Fred chose to leave the case body as Winchester produced it, and simply (NOT SO SIMPLY AS WE SHALL SEE) increase the Neck's Length & chamber throat to facilitate the seating of 200 gr Speer bullets only to the base of said Neck . He was planning an African Safari and wanted to use this newly designed cartridge with that bullet for both plains game as well as Dangerous Game in a "pinch". This new cartridge was so successful on his hunt that "SHOOTING TIMES" , in early 1971, did a feature both on His Hunt as well as the new Round .
He not only took a Record Book Greater Kudu & all the Plains Game, but a huge Lion as well!
I, some months, before this had taken delivery of a Ruger #1 in 300 Win Mag, which I had ordered in 1968 .
I was so enamored with this design , I promptly sent the Rifle to Oroville , Ca so Fred could rechamber it, without ever firing a mutant factory load thru it ! I too saw the merit in using the 200 gr instead of 180's as tables showed they , with a higher BC, Flew flatter, and arrived at distant targets with more energy.
The rifle came home not only rechambered and throated to seat the 200 Speer to the BASE of the long neck , but with a complement of RCBS Dies as well.
The steps neccessary however to create the finished cartridge turned out to be quite arduous starting with 300 H&H brass . Set shoulder back w/Forming Die, Trim Cases to desired length,ream case necks to remove extra thickness created by squashing the shoulder of the H&H case down, charge cases w/Fireforming load,Fireform, Deprime & Neck Size,and Final load . With Bullets seated out to eliminate the bullet encroaching into the powder space, Velocity Does Improve !
My preferred load was/is Fed 215, 80gr Norma 205,200gr Speer for 3100 fps from a 26" bbl. That can never be achieved utilizing the stock Winchester case . And I did this nearly 43 years ago.

And ya'all thot' INDYBUSTER WUZ longwinded

And before anyone even says it , agreed , that was more like $200 worth , not 20 cents lol

Thanx Nitrosonic, the reason I fudged and put this thread on the Exprss forum, is simply that it is a transitional experiment.

Now I know there are six or seven different followers for the Rem. 700's. I know that the RUM follower won't work right with the H&H belted cases.

I've measured fired 300 Win. Mag. necks in my Remington factory barrel, and they end up about .25" long, at the most.

I've found that I can form these +0.050 inch necked cases out of 300 Weatherbys. I haven't worked up accuracy loads for the reduced H-4895 powder yet. But the recoil end is right in line with a 300 Savage. For speed drills, my scope has to go. The heavy sporter barrel will limit the caliber selection. It will never be a D.G. rifle.

But if Hornady will come through with some 404 Jeffery basic brass, I think I can still sneak in a .500 cal. Express rifle.

My stalking horse will be the 500 Kodiak, a 2.3 inch long rimmed case, made to work in a modified Marlin 1895. This case head will be the same as the 500 Wyoming revolver cartridge. Its so close to the H&H's rim, that I think I can keep my Remington's bolt face intact, and use my existing mag box.