Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 405 winchester

Are they making another run of Winchester 1895's? I just love mine. It shoots 300TSX bullets into tiny little groups with RL 15 but I like the 300 Hornady spires with RL7 better. I use to find it a bit clumsy to load but once you have the knack it works like butter.

Over the past 7 months I have been taking it out and putting three rounds down range and it has been very stable. the amalgamated group of 12 rounds is 3.7" with the zero remaining constant. I did some forend skeletonization and bedding work,,it shoots pretty well know. Bison season worthy.

Video on mine....Not sure I can describe my admiration for this firearm. Last weekend I kept ringing the gong at 200 yards and the heavy bullet generates some good swing! It also gets out there pretty fast!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJXKSdpIDY&feature=em-upload_owner

bullet study from last year... woodleigh vs hornady spire vs hornady flat nose. Wet news print media.

When I bought my 95, I had no plans to ever use jacketed bullets. One of the online component suppler had a heck of a buy on blemished 300 grain spitzers so I bought 1,000. I put them under the loading bench and my grandsons can play with them.
My preferred bullet is a 350 grain cast, gas checked. I'm using a case full of IMR 3031. When it goes off it will get your attention.

Jim

North61
Nice job on the video. I'm like you, I bought my Win. 95 when they first became available .
Then I added a couple of .405 No. 1 Rugers . I have found with out a doubt that Reloader 15 is hands down consistently the best powder for me. Reloader 7 is also good.
Mouse

Thanks...RL 15 with the 300 TSX really gets some good groups in my 95. Probably the best load but I like the Hornady's too.

Very well done, bravo sir! I have one in the safe I have yet to fire. Yes ,yes I know that is pure sacrilage. I have dies and some factory ammo just haven't gotten around to it, too many projects. I will add that I have another 95 converted to .35 Whelen and it is awesome! You are right butter smoothe and like a bank vault.

My 1885 in 405 likes a heavy dose of H4895 with the Hornady 300, got a couple molds to try soon

Hi North, thanks for the video. Both my 405s (jap) love RL-15 too, but another forum member suggest VV N-133 and that REALLY made a difference for me in accuracy and velocity. My rifle also loves the 300gr TSX as well as the North Fork soft and solid. With them I am convinced I can handily take a Cape Buffalo..

Now Jorge, you know you can not kill a cape buffalo with a levergun!

What a great photograph! Now to find some N133

Some very nice pictures of the 405 in action in Africa with the Johnson's from the 1930's or so..rhino..elephant...the old 405 wracked up quite the tally!

http://www.reedercustomguns.net/forum/index.php?mode=thread&id=50451

North61
Nammo has just purchased VV from Eurenco and promises to improve distribution to serve the US market. see link:
http://www.nammo.com/

There are several other such news items to be found on the Internet.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ri-plant-but-production-should-continue/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/01/nammo-lapua-oy-announces-distributor-changes/

So what is the difference between vv 133 and alliant Reloader 15 in the real world.
Granted after firing only a few thousand rounds of .405 Winchester and trying most any powder available that would work but not the VV powders, should I reconsider my position in reloading this round. It shoots better than I shoot, that's Reloader 15 that is. Please let me know the advantages of VV133. Just want to learn the possibilities of the wonderful .405 Winchester.
Thanks
Mouse

Mouse,
Short version:
I had been told by a number of people (including a bench rest type and a bullet manufacturer that used pressure barrels) that it was very accurate and for a given velocity, it was usually 10,000-12,000 PSI lower in pressure than most other powders; a valuable trait when pushing the upper limits of recommended velocities. I tried it and learned that it also meters and compresses very well, though not quite so well as ball powders. In my .405, it does generate much less pressure than 300 grain factory ammo at the same velocity of 2250 fps. In my 400 grain hand loads, it also generate pressure well below that of the other powders I tried at just under 2100 fps (DG loads with JSP and FMJ bullets).

Like any powder, when the upper limit of efficiency is reached (obvious when more powder does not get more velocity and when shot to shot velocity variations increase), it is time to stop and/or change powders.

Long Version:
I would need to email traces and reports from my Pressure Trace II system along with more background information.

However, if you are happy with your present load formulas, why not stick with them? I did that with RL11 in my .308 hunting rifle because it shot around 5/8 inch 5 shot groups from the bench and I never get to use a bench in the field.

Found this video on Osa Johnson. Her and her husband shot many animals in Africa with the .405 win 1895 in the 1920's and 30's At 38 seconds Osa takes a rhino...I think with a 405 though you can't tell for sure. Nice shot though!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M24y9seWXj0

right in the eye too. that rhino was getting ready to have her for lunch.

Pretty good for a 5 footer!

Here is a list of movies starring the Winchester 1895

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1895

In the real world? I run out of case capacity with RL-15 and struggle to reach 2250 with 300gr TSXs or Woodleighs and it burns MUCH cleaner. Accuracy's about the same.

I've had good success with accracy using Benchmark as well. Tried Varget, didn't like it. H4895 was acceptable. Benchmark is the best I've tried, but haven't used any of the VV series.

Barnes website says max accurate w/.411 300 TSX is 55.5 gr RL 15 @ 2136.

Struggling to make 2250 in an ancient design lever action is just where you should be. The original factory load with a cup & core 300 gr was 2204 fps.

You want more speed in a .411 300 TSX, get a bolt gun or strong single shot in 400 H&H. My converted 700 Classic (from 300 H&H) nudges 3000 fps.

Actually a 350 gr .411 NEI GC hardcast at 2000 fps will do anything you need to do on any NA game. Get out the wet phonebooks and be convinced.
A lot cheaper than TSXs too.

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html

My 405 is a Ruger #1 which is capable of pushing the envelope a tad. I chronoed the Hornady 300 grain flat points factory stuff, and it was clocking an average of 2275 fps. With a good case full of Benchmark, the 300 TSX was Walking on that pretty good, but it is a pretty bully for strong single shot, and not a levergun.

Benchmark should allow 2400fps with 300 Hornady's at allowable pressures. I have got the spitzers up to the high 2300's in my 1895.

Do what you will and don't put a pressure transducer on that gun.

When the locking lugs on a post 1876 Winchester lever design fail, guess where the bolt goes ?

People just don't seem to understand that a properly designed .411 bullet at 2000 fps will kill anything that walks in North America.

Best of luck.

If you have transducer data please share. The benchmark data is listed in the Hodgdon Manual for Hornady bullets; 2404 fps from a 24 inch barrel at 42,200 PSI. If the pressure testing at Hodgdon is in error I am sure many of us would like to know.

The data for the TSX is very different as it's a much longer bullet and maxes out at 2174 with H4895.

According to Barnes it maxes out at 2136 w/RL15. Giving up 150 fps to shoot a far superior bullet for BIG game is no sacrifice. The Barnes also has a higher BC and SD. The Hornady is an unbonded cup and core bullet and will never match the penetration of the TSX. The Hornady can go faster because it is a "softer" bullet with less bore resistance than the TSX.

All that said, if I chose to hunt big stuff with a 405, I'd go with the 400 Swift
A-Frame as long heavy bullets always work better on the big stuff. An excellent second choice would be the 400 Woodleigh RNSP designed for the 400 H&H.

The 95 is a neat old piece of history but is difficult to carry, hard to load and the lever throw is clunky at best. If one wanted to hunt with a classic lever gun, a modern 1886 or Marlin 45-70 will push a 400 gr bullet @2000 fps, handles better, carries more rounds and the magazine can be topped up with a round chambered.

A BLR in 450 Marlin also hits the magic 2000fps w/a 400 gr bullet and can be scoped as well.

There are NO, NO issues with getting the 300gr TSX to shoot SAFELY out of an 1895 @2250 fps(and especially a new one). Even the old ones could handle 3006s with pressures significantly higher than what a 405 WCF at original specs can produce. RL-15 is a good powder as well, but in my experience anything past 55gr the velocity curve pretty much flattened out. VV N-133 works great.

I also have an original (1915) 95 in 303 British. I load it to around 2700 with 150gr Interlocks and 2100 with 215gr Woodleighs. No issues.

Interesting thing with my 1895 is how far out of POI the 300 TSX shoots as compared to the Hornady and Woodleigh bullets. 54.5 grains of RL15 is a very mild load and shoots a full foot lower than my RL7 load with the cup and core bullets. I think upping the speed of the TSX bullets would help. VV N133 looks like a place to start.

Apparently there are still folks that do not know or understand there's more keeping the bolt out of the shooters eyeball with a Winchester JM Browning designed lever gun than the Marlins...

If you 405 shooters want to get the most out of the cartridge, you'll look to the Rl 12 powder or IMR 4320.
2350 with one hole accuracy using Rl12 and the Northfork 300 ss are entirely possible, and right where my rifle really livs in the groove.

So cough up the recipes Ranch!

Jorge it's here either here or in the bigbore section, but you'll have to go back about 10 years to find it.

Another great thread...this one has some shots of the 1895 in Africa. Leopard, Cape Buffalo, Elephant, no problem.


http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/7120?page=1

Did you notice how small the Cape buff looked next to the 6 foot 10 inch hunter?

Just hired a guy 6 foot 9.... It is a bit tall!

Just read the book Bear Man of Admiralty Island, a biography of Alaskan Pioneer Allen E Hasselborg. Sad lonely life but he was THE brown bear hunter and guide of the 20's to 50's. He switched from a Win 1886 in 45-70 to a Win 95 in 405 and also had a double rifle in 405.

Just reading the book We Married Adventure, a biography about Osa and Martin Johnson, two documentary film makers of the same era who venture from Pacific Islands to Africa in company with the 405...

That added to Teddy Roosevelt's use makes for a fine piece of Americana in the 1895, 405.

North61,
The 1895 in .405 was the rifle used by hunter and author Kenneth Anderson to kill marauding leopards and tigers in India. I have just read six of his stories in his Omnibus 2 collection and they are most enjoyable. Like Jim Corbett before him, Anderson loved the animals and jungles of India and was a brave and effective hunter. He mentions the 1895 ,405 only in passing as the tool used to dispatch man eaters and cattle killers.

One interesting bit about the 1895 .405 rifle in the "The Black Panther of Sivanipalli" was that he short loaded the magazine to avoid the possibility of a jam when rapidly working the "under lever" for a fast follow up shot. Have you ever had that experience?

Never short stroked it.... simply snap the lever like you mean it and it feeds like butter.

north61 thanks for this great video. stated in a clear concise manner. cranky72

I just noticed Larry Root the homo is back.. FOAD Larry.

Another historical link...Kenneth Anderson, second only to Jim Corbett as a man eating tiger slayer used the Winchester 95 in 405 on tigers and rogue elephants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Anderson_%28writer%29

North61,

I thought you might enjoy these photos:
















Also, I think you will very much enjoy this video slide show about Martin & Osa Johnson:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x52o69_martin-and-osa-johnson_travel


Be sure to turn up your speakers as the soundtrack is great, IMHO.


Sincerely,
-Bob F.

WOW That was great. Thanks for the Vid.

As always Bob, SUPERB posts. Thanks!

Jorge,

Thanks for that. I haven't been posting on here very often over the last few years but I still stop by occasionally and read some of the forums. That's why I just recently saw this thread.

As North61 seems to display an interest in Martin and Osa Johnson, I thought I would post a few pics and the link to the video. I hope he, and other folks here, enjoy them.

Cheers, my friend!

Sincerely,

-Bob F.

Wow! Those pictures are fantastic..I just finished reading a biography on the Johnson's and these pictures made my day!

Well, your absence is sadly noted and you still have (in my opinion) the best thread EVER on the Africa Forum!

I love my .405s... I have however gone in the opposite direction and now mostly use cast bullets between 1400-1900 fps... Not having any Cape Buffalo to deal with there is no sense beating myself to death to prove a non-point.

Anyone guess or know what kind a ammo was available back when the .405 was new... 300s for the most part but did any of the ammo companies make FMJs for the .405....

Thanks for all the great posts...Bob

Winchester made a full patch round, don't know if Remington did or not.

Kynoch provided cartridges for the .405 Winchester loaded with 300 gr solids (FMJ) and soft-nosed bullets.

From the 1936 ICI (Eley/Kynoch) ammunition catalog:








Cheers!
-Bob F.