Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 165gr HPBT Sierra in an '06?

Got an elk hunting planned for September. Got an old '06 that really likes 165 HPBTs. Would these work well for elk, or should I try to find a good 180gr load?

If 180's are recommended, I know Partitions are "the bullet", but would CnC bullets work just fine, or would I be wise to use a premium? (I know bullets are the cheapest part of the hunt, etc.)

Although it is fairly important to find out what your gun likes, it's more important to find out what the elk need.
Most agree that 1 180 gr C&C would be better suited, although there are some here that swear by the Barnes mono in lighter bullets Just as there will be several that tell you the 165 gr HPBT will kill elk ( which it will). I'm not one of them.
To save yourself a lot of time and thinking ,just buy some 180 grain partitions. Can't ever go wrong with them

If you want non-premium bullets, try to find some Speer Hotcores, either 165 or 180 gr. I've used them for years with excellent results. They're hard to find, though. I haven't been able to find 180's since mid summer, either locally or online.

southtexas, as mentioned 165 gr. Sierra HPBT will kill an elk and very dead.. I've shot probably at least a dozen with that bullet out of my .300's.. BUT I would opt for a better bullet.. I seldom use them for that purpose these days... My first choice is the Nosler Part. Again, I would go with 165's or 180's.. I never had much use for the 180 wt. in .30 cal.. But it is a good one.. A second choice would be the 165 grain Accubond.. I have shot maybe 5 elk with this bullet in my .340 and 300's.. It has never come apart or lost it's core.. It does loose wt. more than the part. but it shoots well and carries up well.. I would trade a bit of accuracy for a better bullet.. You may not need it, but if you get one shot and it is not perfect, you will be happy to have a bullet that can do the job from a less than perfect angle.. You might get one shot just at dusk, and a better bullet will mean a better chance of success..

Thanks, Gentlemen! Your response was pretty much what I expected to hear based on what I have read. But it's good to hear from guys with first hand experience. I'll have to see how the ol' '06 likes 180 Partitions. st

Although the Nosler 180 partition is above reproach, Mr. Steve Timm (dogzapper) has told of his exploits in Africa and Austraila as well as here and the Hornady 180 SP never let him down, even on elk.

True,I actually use Sierra 180gr Game King or or 220 gr RN, but you get less flak on here if you just advise the Partition

The Sierra is a outstanding Deer bullet and the one i use in my 308 , but it is soft and will open quickly and as long as you have broadside shots you should have no problem taking Elk. If the only shot you get is a Big Bull walking away from you , then you may wish you used another bullet. Personally if you insist on using a light 30 cal bullet, i would go to a 165 or 180 gr Partition just for the extra margin of penetration on shots that may not present a perfect lung through lung shot. I killed a cow at around 150 yards broadside with the 30-06 and Nosler 165 GR Partition and she dropped right there, so i know the lighter 30 cal bullets will work if you shoot straight. If i was going to hunt Elk again with my 30-06 i would use the Nosler 200 gr Partition and Hod 4831SC , you will be surprised just how flat the 30-06 with push this bullet and no Elk can stand it from any angle you may have to shoot.

Can't ever go wrong with the partition but for the 40+ elk I have killed, both bulls and cows, none have been killed with a partition or so called premium bullet. Fact is ,most have been with a 180 gr Sierra GK .06, except for the ML, 45-70,44mag, or 30-30.
To me, be it bull or cow, monster or raghorn, I am selective about my shot placement and even if it is a 300+ class bull, if it is walking away from me, he gets to walk. BTDT.

But I reccomended the partition to stave off pi$$ing contest of C&C vs premium.

The last two Bulls i Killed was with the Barnes 100 gr TSX from my 257 STW and both went down without taking a step. I like the 30 Cal Sierra bullet and would uses them , but when i pay out of state license fee's and drive from TN to Colorado, the extra cost of Nosler Partitions are a small price to pay from what i have already invested in the hunt . Just a little extra insurance in my opinion . My hunting buddy has killed 6 Elk out of seven trips with me and the only Bullet he has used is the Sierra 200 gr BTS in his 300 Win Mag, never losted a Elk

bea, you make an important point.. Saddlesore and myself live in elk country.. I have passed many shots that were not perfect, but for the man that travels thousands of miles, pays for a nonresident lic. plus other expenses, it is a small price to pay for Nosler Part. bullets.. I have been shooting the Accubond for the last couple years, but I probably have killed maybe a half dozen elk with a 150 grain Nosler BTBT out of my .300.. Hit I the lungs it is sudden death.. But if I were going on a hunt where I had only very limited time for the hunt, no question I would have the rifle loaded with something like partitions or accubonds. You mention of the 200 grain Nosler Part. is also a fine one.. I have used it quite a bit over the 180's.. It will penetrate from almost any angle.. Good insurance if you really want to take home an elk..

I'm laughing here. Nosler partitions are pretty dang cheap. You just got to know where to find them ..

bsa, I missed something here???

The Sierra will kill elk dead. Bonus... You can call them up today and have a box by the end of the week. I wouldn't launch an accubomb at a dog house.

Accubonds have worked fine for me on about half dozen animals.. The Sierra he is talking about is very accurate, but about 40 years ago, I shot a big coyote coming into a call.. He was facing at maybe 125 yards.. The 165 centered his chest, he dropped on the spot.. When we picked him up, he was like a sack of jelly.. There was a bullet hole in the chest and no exit...
Near as we could tell, the bullet came complete apart inside the old coyote...

I know exactly what Sierra he is talking about. My freezer is full from them. If you gave me a lifetime supply of Accubombs, I would sell them and give half the money to charity. I would spend the rest in Vegas doing blow off a hookers ass.

wyoelk: Can you share with us your experiences with AB's which lead to your opinion of them? thanks

I would not use HPBT on elk.
I like the barnes X. last 2elk I never recovered the bullet from my 06, 180gr.
even with one bad shot that destroyed the shoulder...no bullet found. luckily he stopped and gave me the opportunity to finish the job with a neck shot.
Id go with heavier well built bullet. slower expansion, deeper penetration.
BUT shot placement is the key.

I would like to hear it also...

Watched a calf suck up 5+ from a 300. One didn't even make rib cage after entering shoulder.

I can't load the long winded chunks of [bleep] where I like and get them to fit in the mags. You guys must have different rifles.

I wouldn't use them either. What do I know. Our fathers and grandfathers have been killing schit dead with them for 40 years. Did I mention they are accurate?

Interesting.. I put a 150 grain Accubond from a 300 almost though the chest of a large cow this fall.. I have no trouble seating them out in the magazine of my 700's...

I have never really considered the Nosler Partition a real expensive bullet, but Nosler does use Child Psychology on it customers by packaging them 50 to a box to ease price or sticker shock when buying them .

nice Elk....

Saddlesore's recommendation is a good one. But like he said later, there are many good bullets that will work.

Elk are not near as hard to kill as many seem to think, as long as the bullet lands in the right place and does what it should.

I have mostly used premium bullets for elk, and they have always worked well. Primarily Nosler Partitions and Swift A-Frames. That is what I will use this fall too.

Many other serially successful elk hunters have used less than premium bullets with total success.

You don't have to use Nosler Partitions, but if you are asking for advice, it is hard to go wrong with the 180 grain Partition for elk.

I've probably killed more elk and African critters than the average fella and 180-grain Hornady Spire Point Interlockeds have worked perfectly for me. But then, I'm perfectly satisfied with the .30-'06.

Stalk reasonably close, wait for the shot and place that single bullet properly ... and the deal is absolutely finished.

If a guy needs a magnum rifle with bulelts launched at warp-speed, then maybe Partitons or A-Frames are needed.

Frankly, I much prefer Hornady Interlockeds at '06 velocity, mostly because they expand properly and penetrate beautifully. On the one safari I used premium bullets in my '06, I was not at all satisfied with bullet expansion.

I guess it gets down to field experience, but I've killed well over one-hundred large critters with the .30-'06 and Hornady Interlockeds ... I'm a believer.

Of course, other's opinions may vary. And that's fine. Just keep in mind that killing ten or twenty elk only gives the hunter a hint of the answer, not the entire story.

kd

Perfectly satisfied with the .30-06?! And you even took one to Africa? Next we'll discover you probably were shooting a push feed rifle! It's a wonder you weren't eaten by lions and run over by buffalo!!

Seriously, what type of premium bullets did you use in your .30-06 in Africa and just how did they perform?

You are right about trying to draw conclusions from limited field experience. It is hard to get enough direct experience in the US to truly know how more than just a couple of cartridge/bullet combinations truly work on game.

That's why forums like this are valuable. A hunter can learn from the experiences of others.

I've had 2 180 gr Accubonds come apart when shot from my 300 WSM. With one, I found the jacket against the far side of the chest cavity. I later found the core in the heart. It totally demolished the near shoulder, ruining 10lb or more of meat. I'll use about any bullet before I'll use another AB. I've had good luck with PT's, as has anyone else who's used them, but I can't say that they're much better than the Speer Hotcore which has been my go-to bullet for 30 years.

I guess that I do, for sure.

Over the last ten years, I have taken five large bull elk with ABs: one with a 200-grain (in a .300 WSM), one with a 200-grain (from a .338-06) one with a 250-grain (from a 9.3x74R) and two with the 260-grain (from a .375 H&H). The only one that I recovered was the 200-grain .338 bullet. I shot the animal at about 25 yards as it ran past me and the bullet went through the near shoulder, top of the heart and both lungs and was found just under the skin on the far side.

The bull shot with the 200-grain .308 bullet was quartering toward me and was hit between the shoulder and the neck. The bullet exited on the far side behind the last short rib, plowing through at least five feet of elk tissues. Not only was this was the largest-bodied bull that I have ever killed, it was probably the largest that I have ever seen.

All of but one of those were one-shot kills. One of the bulls shot with the .375 stood around long enough to catch a second one before he staggered backward and flipped over on his back.

My son killed this bull on our last trip to Colorado with his Wby Accumark in 7mm STW . He was using my hand load with the Nosler 140 gr Accubond and Rel 22. The Bull was around 200 yards coming up the hill from a drainage. One shot behind the shoulder and the Bull Collapsed on the Spot and skidded back down the hill for about 30 yards or more, DOA. The Nosler pasted through and wasn't recovered .

I love the internets. You guys crack me up. The guy asks about shooting Sierra HPBT into elk and he get two pages of blah back guys with no experience shooting said pill into said critter.

I make a wise ass reply back to a fellow Wyoming hunter about my profound love for a certain Nosler product and the fan boys come a running. This earns the OP another page. Sorry boys, if your bullet cant get inside the rib cage of a calf elk, it goes into my junk category and doesn't get a second chance.

Another poster commented on ten or 20 elk. I agree with this. We average 10-12 elk a year from our camp with 90%+ being taken with that lowly Sierra bullet. My friends three kids have caused me years of back pain shooting Sierra's out of a lowly .308. The punks have grown up and graduated to 30-06 and .338's but they are still causing me yearly back pain.

They are cheap, accurate and they work. So will many other bullets. The list is long. As others have stated, placement is more important than stamps on brass or brand names on boxes.

OP.... take that rifle loaded with said pills and place one into a bulls boiler room. I suggest you do this three or more miles from the truck. This will show you how they work and teach you all about a host of other silly schit you should have been worrying about.

P.S. Accubombs still suck.

I suggest the OP start a thread concerning Bergers and elk. This will result in a 10+ page promised land of internet experts commenting who have no actual experience using them in the big brown critters.

I helped gut a BIG 6x6 Roosevelt bull in the Coast range in Oregon. 200 grain Accubond out of a .300 Win Mag, 275 yards. I'll see if I can find a pic.


P

Precisely why I posted this in my first reply.

"But I reccomended the partition to stave off pi$$ing contest of C&C vs premium"

Whoops , we have stepped on the toes of the Elk killing experts from Wyo. I don't claim to be a expert like yourself and have only killed 6 out of seven trips and so has my buddy from Virginia. I hunt with my Friend and his three sons and some of their cousins who where born and raised in Leadville and they have killed killed more Elk than most who hunt them on this forum and most they have killed is with Ammo they can find the cheapest at Walmarts, they don't handload , usually Rem Corelocks. Elk aren't that hard to kill if you shoot them in the right place, and they are made much tougher to kill on the internet than in the woods. Every Elk we have killed we field dressed and dragged out whole or in one piece and this is why i haven't been in the last two seasons , just to dam old to drag Elk at 12,000 ft. My friend was a Paratrooper in the 101 with me. Growing up in Redcliff outside of Leadville , he killed all his Elk every year using a Savage 99 in 300 Sav with open sight and factory ammo until he got out of the Military and purchased a Remington 742 in 30-06

No toes stepped on at all. The man asked about shooting elk with HPBT. Do you have experience shooting elk with this bullet? No? Carry on stud.

I agree with SS. The partition is a fine elk killing bullet. Someone will be along shortly to expand upon how they suck though.

I agree with the rest of your post. Put one in the lungs. Sharpen knife.

Here it is. 200 grain Accubond. This is a big Roosevelt.







P

nice Bull

Nice bull. The fact that he is in the truck whole speaks volumes.

Would you still be a fan boy after watching a calf suck up five? Still a fan after seeing one not even break ribs?

I have a list of bullets that work well.

And a short list that doesn't.

I would mention the TTSX but the fan boys would come running and it would end in me spending a week in Vegas doing blow off a HIV infected hookers ass.

The Accubonds work , here is a hard case doe , all 70 or 80 lb's Left Hand SS 700 300 RUM and the 180 Nosler Accubond . Shot around 100 yards center of chest looking in my direction .

I can post several deer killed by my boy with a Sierra. Im not impressed with Accubombs based on experience. You won't change my mind.

Add to the list of [bleep] bullets.... TTSX, those extra long coated black pieces of schit Winchester had out around 94. Please feel free to add another Nosler product. The Ballistic Tip. I will admit that my experience was around mid 90's and JB has since informed me that they are different but they still land in my sucks and junk field.

Want the list of winners?

It sounds as if your buddy had a failure but I can't understand why the bullet blew up. I've never heard of it before. I've seen three deer die to 150 Accubonds and one bull. No bullet recovered and all 4 animals were DRT.

The deer were probably close to the size of a bull calf (200 pounds or so, nice mulies).


P

Not really.

Like you said, I've got my favorites (based on experience) and you won't change my mind, either.


P

Shoot enough elk and you will see the truth.... Ok, maybe not the truth but you will develop opinions on bullets. Use what works for you. Thats a nice bull though..

Ive always wanted to hunt those rain forrest bulls. One of these years I need to try it. Whole different game.

yes

ok...

Speer Grand Slam. Never loaded these for accuracy. I always stuffed them on top of 72 gr of 4530 and filled the freezer. They work. Odd that they don't get mentioned more.

Sierra Game King. Lets be honest. If you can't make these fly, you suck as a reloader or your rifle sucks. They kill game dead. I hate the lead tip. Never caused a problem, just a personal issue.

Sierra HPBT- We all know my views towards these. I will admit some flaws when pushed fast at elk 30 yards away.

Nosler Ballistic Tip. Kills elk dead. Enjoy the billion chunks of copper in your meat. These have since changed. No experience since the change.

Nosler Accubombs- yeah.....

Nosler Partitions- Possibly the best damn elk killing bullet made. Not as accurate as Sierra.

Hornady- Never loaded or shot. Impressed by friends use.

TSX- Works very well but I have trouble making them fly.

TTSX- Lets just say HIV infected hookers ass. Ruined me on Barnes for life.

Remington CL- Yep, works.

Winchester coated long black things- Shoot yourself. Its easier.

Did I miss anything?

Schit....

I forgot Bergers.

On antelope and deer? Wow.

Elk? Never had one fall over from Bergers but I never chased one either.

That is the bullet I use in my .308s for a hunting load. I have killed numerous elk with it, including one 5x5 recently.

Not a single one needed a second shot.

Great bullet and very,very accurate.

Yeah, quite a few, but I do like your analogy on the ones listed

Not as far as I'm concerned you didn't...

Sierra's are more accurate...but differences are pretty fractional.Anything you can hit with one, you will hit with the other.

My Browning A-Bolt 30-06 with the Boss shoots the 165 Nosler Partition as good as any Sierra Bullet i have tried in it.

Just seems like there was an insinuation there about the price of the partitions. I see it all the time here. It's always, "it's a small price to pay" yada yada yada. Same song and dance. For those that don't know about this place and I know there are a lot of guys still left out there that don't know about SPS because I still see partitions being sold in the classifieds for $35-40.00/box. You can buy firsts (factory over runs) for $20.00 (.308 180gr. partition) or these blemished bullets that I can't find a damn thing wrong with for $15.95/bag of 50:

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosl...0-180gr-partition-spitzer-blem-50ct.html

I'd get them while they are hot!! I already have a stash of 500 firsts or I'd be all over these. Thanks god for SPS!!!

Speak of the devil:

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosl...le-please-limit-5-bags-per-customer.html

I keep several boxes of Partitions of different cal's on hand all the time .

Yep me too. Along with Hornady interlocks as well...

I have more bullets in my loading room than most of the Sporting Goods Stores around here have.

Bea mostly, yes. With the 06 I noticed a tendency for the Sierra 165 to shoot slightly better than the 165 NPT but it showed up at the 500 yard line and over a few groups....even then, it was not enough to matter on any BG animal.

bsa, you are right about the Nosler seconds.. Several years ago, I spend some time in Ore.. Went to Bend several trips and picked up quite a few seconds... But so far haven't shot them at big game.. If I am doing something serious on big animals or trophy game that is stout, then for me the price even at Wyo. prices is worth it.. At present I probably have more Noslers, Sierra and Hornady bullets than I have time left to shoot 'em.. But my friends will enjoy them..

Wyo , I' like you i will die before i shoot up all the bullets i have

Nosler seconds, mostly Partition but a few BT.






All three




Both




Both



All three




And there's more, but you get the idea.


P

Good job Pharm. Those spike only hunts seem like they would suck.

Not spike only, it just worked out that way. We were happy as hell with what we got. Tough to go 3 for 3 in Oregon. For us, anyway.

P

180 Partitions outshoot Gamekings, Pro Hunters and Ballistic Tips in my .300 WM. Think it may have something to do with the base obturating and sealing the bore.

Pretty much seems like a consensus that the 165HPBT kills a lot, big stuff too. I have often though of giving it a go but that BC, which prolly wouldn't matter in a million years, keeps me away.

The bullet choice isn't all that important, particularly at .30-06 velocities. Super accuracy is even less important. Put a bullet in the lungs and the elk will go down shortly.

More important is your ability to shoot well out to your maximum range. I strongly recommend a laser range finder as distances in the mountains can be very deceiving.

My own choice of bullets, for many years, was Speer Grand Slams for my 7mm RM. Not very aerodynamic but accurate enough and they were hammers. These days I prefer North Fork SS, Barnes TTSX and Nosler AccuBonds for all my rifles. Two cows have gone straight down with a .30-06 and 165g North Forks, another with a 150g AccuBond.

If all I had was a C&C bullet, though, I'd use it and worry about other things. Others have suggested Partitions and they are never wrong if you rifle likes them. This year I'll be using Federal's 165g Trophy Bonded Tip in a .30-06 simply because Dad gave me a box of them with the rifle.

Find a load your rifle likes, learn to shoot it well at distance (up to 400-600 yards, whatever is possible) and go hunt. Spend time getting as familiar with the area as you can - including through Google Earth, topo and land ownership maps, whatever you can. Get in shape, too.

Tough for me too buddy. I totally hear you...I don't have to tell you about 3% success rate units ..:



I never think to take pics out in the field. Just haven't been one to do it and have to remind myself to take a pic or 2 (sometimes in weird spots like in the back of this truck) because azzwhipes here try to make themselves feel better with call outs sometimes. They think since you post pics of targets, you don't know how to shoot a live animal. I've killed so much chidt that when I was younger, I had to take time away from the killing fields. 7 years in fact...Just don't tell anyone ...

With all due respect, hunters who get their elk out whole can K my A.

Only because of jealousy. I'm not smart enough to get one out whole, I gotta pack them out on my back. I live for the day that I can see my bull hanging whole from the meat pole.

Waaaay too much work!




Good on ya!


P

We drug his azz out on that slick tarp tied around his neck (see pic) . Good thing he wasn't huge!!!

I was part of the team who got this toad out whole. Those guys who hunt the Coast range don't go anywhere without a half-mile of rope.





P

Nice critters Pharm'.

Holy chit!! I guess he's a toad . I've hunted the coast once with a buddy from Tillamook. Those guys have some big azzed drum winches in the backs of their pu's. A couple thousand feet of rope comes in handy down there

That's one heck of a Blacktail...

I will stick with Nosler Ballistic Tip 180's as long as they keep making them. I like the harder hit and stability in wind. Just my opinion but my elk kill at 407 and deer at 466 tell me all I need to know with my 06 which is a rem model six pump.

Matches my thoughts very closely. For a handloader, even the most expensive bullets are cheap compared to the total cost of a hunt. In years when I've filled two elk tags and a deer tag the difference in cost between the premiums I use and standard C&C bullets wouldn't buy me a cheap glass of wine with my dinner out. These days I prefer 165g-168g North Fork SS, Nosler AccuBond and Barnes TTSX for my .30-06 rifles and don't give cost a second thought.

I also live in elk county and have gone home empty-handed a few times after letting one walk away. That would be much harder to do it I was a non-resident for whom the hunt might be a rare or even a once-in-a-lifetime event. Moreover I worry more about what happens when things go south than when they go as planned. If shooting a wounded elk that presents only a THS, I want a bullet that will penetrate - i.e. a somewhat slower heavy-for-caliber bullet or one that is stoutly constructed to retain its mass. If an elk is wounded and gets away because the bullet wasn't up to the task, how much did you really save?

If buying factory .30-06 ammo for elk I'd probably go with a 180g if choosing a standard C&C bullet.

Love my Partitions and Trophy Bonded Bear Claws...I'm one of those guys from the SE who, unfortunately, does not live out there. I get a week here, week there, and I'm not taking any chances.

Best of luck with your choice.

Maybe the reason that a lot of posters didn't come back with experience using the 165 gr BTHP is they already figured out it wasn't an appropriate bullet for elk hunting. Will it kill elk? Sure will. Catch a heavy shoulder bone though and the results are probably not going to be satisfying. Catch an elk in the timber at 25 yards, ditto.

Shoot an elk at 300 yards thru the lungs and you will be happy.

My friend Dober has killed quite a few elk with the 165 BTHP in the 30-06. He loves the bullet.

Me, I've only seen recovered ones, and they looked good to me.

wyoelk - This is not directed at you, but since you provided a list, here are some additions and my thoughts on the others.

Grand Slams. I've never been able to get the accuracy I can get with other bullets but 3-shot groups of .9" were common. Good enough in the accuracy department and the 160g 7mms I used for 20+ years never disappointed. Recovered my first one the last year I used them. That one destroyed both shoulder joints of a 5x5 bull and was against the off-side hide.

Nosler Partitions. Took Fed Premium 160g 7mm RM ammo as backup ammo for years. Still have a box around but have never used them on game. Accuracy was better than the Grand Slams, not as good as some others. Still more than good enough. Used by various hunting people I've hunted with over the years with only good results. I load the 170g RN for my .30-30 but have no on-game experience with them.

Ballistic Tip. Very accurate. I buy them from SPS when I can and use them as practice bullets in place of AccuBonds.

SSTs. Very accurate. These also get used for practice bullets in place of AccuBonds.

AccuBond. Very accurate. One cow shot with a .30-06/150g instantly went straight down. Another, hit with a .338WM/225g in the process bones above the spine, kept walking. A second shot to the ribs would have done the job but she was still standing and so got another that enlarged the hole in the ribs and dropped her. Can't blame the first shot results on anything but me rushing the shot from an awkward position. Last year's cow was hit with the same load at 487 yards. She made it 58 yards before falling over. 110g AccuBonds have been very effective on antelope.

X. Very accurate. Sucked on antelope. Very inconsistent on coyotes but killed every one. Never found the entrance or exit on one coyote, blew a softball sized hole in the backbone of another. Refused to use them after the experience on that unfortunate antelope.

E-Tip. Too much like the X to suit me.

TSX. Very accurate in every rifle I tried them in. Couldn't get past my experience with X so never used them on game.

MRX. Very accurate and effective on elk and deer. No longer available so I use the TTSX.

TTSX. Ditto the MRX but cheaper, available and even more accurate. More straight-down DRT's than not.

North Fork SS. Very accurate and effective. If I could only use one bullet this would be the one.

North Fork FP. Used in my .45-70. Most consistently consistent load I've ever developed with E.S. under 10fps common and under 5fps on occasion. Sent some of my handloads to Mike Brady for pressure testing and even he was impressed with their consistency. Have only taken two animals with this load, a 6x6 bull @ 213yds and a mulie buck at 197 yds. The bull went straight down, the buck made it a few yards but was leaking like a water bucket with a couple of .45 caliber holes in it. Lots of red snow.

Trophy Bonded. Very accurate and effective. Haven't used them myself but my hunting buddy has.

Scirocco II. Very accurate. Only use them in my 6.5-06AI and need more on-game experience with them.

A-Frame. Very accurate. Only use them in my .257 Roberts (120g) during deer/elk season and have no on-game experience with them. That said I've seen what larger A-Frames can do and have no doubts about how they will perform.

Cup and Core bullets. Other than the BT and SST listed above and those I use in my lever guns and .22 centerfires, I don't have much use for them except as practice bullets. My first elk with a 162g BTSP Interlock convinced me to use sturdier bullets in my 7mm RM and I haven't looked back when selecting hunting bullets for my bolt guns.

That said, I may use Federal Premium .30-06/165g GameKing for elk this year. When Dad gave me his .30-06 Ruger American he gave me one box of 165g Trophy Bonded Tip and five boxes of the 165g GameKing. Although I think the Trophy Bonded Tip may be the single best bullet on the market per my wants in bullet design, I won't use them unless they shoot very close to the Game Kings that I'll be practicing with. Or I may just develop new loads altogether, save the Trophy Bonded and use the GameKings for practice. I do wish Federal would offer the Trophy Bonded Tip as components.

At the end of the day I'm just glad we live in a time and place where we have so many choices and are free to choose what we want to use in spite of the fact that a .308 Win and a C&C bullet would have doomed every animal I've ever taken just as surely as what I chose to use instead.

Here's the buck mentioned in my previous post, taken with a my .45-70 and a North Fork 350g FP. Shot was quartering away at 197 lasered yards. Not a big boy but it put meat in the freezer and that is what I wanted. Took the 6x6 bull the day before or the day after and that filled the freezer.

Great pictures Pharmseller, BSA and others! Like you Pharmseller, those SOB's that get elk out whole can kiss my 5th point of contact!

I've run AB's, PT's, and TSX's on elk. By far, my favorite is the PT. Like BSA, I buy them up by the 100's when they drop on SPS. I figure I buy them cheap enough like that I can practice with the same bullet I hunt with, without having two different loads.

OP, good luck picking a bullet, but the 165 or 180 AB/PT along with a slew of others won't let you down in a 30-06. I spend way more in fuel than I do in bullets while elk hunting.

This guy got the what for with the 338 and 210PT. I was happy to be carrying the 338 that day.



Saying that, Pharmseller has convinced me if we draw tags for OR this Fall, my son will carry his M70 7x57 with 140AB's.

Agree with bea on this.Even at full retail a box of 165 Partitions costs less than filling a pickup with a tank of gas.

Been a few years since I was doing extensive 30/06 shooting,but in the last rifle I was using a load of 59-H4350 with both the 165 Sierra and 165 Nosler Partitions,and shooting to 500-600 yards.

At 100 yards you couldn't tell which was which in terms of grouping;but at 500-600 the Sierra showed slightly better grouping;and I mean "slightly", on average.Either would land easily in elk vitals.

Point being, it is SO easy to use the cheaper bullet for practice with full confidence in switching to the Partition for hunting.When it comes to elk hunting the choice between the two is easy for me.

Interesting thread. Lots of opinions on what works or doesn't work which makes one think. Compared to some my experience on elk is very thin, mostly due to bad luck. If I drew a bull tag all I saw were cows and if a cow tag, well you get the picture. Most of the time I don't draw squat. Last time I drew an elk tag in my home state was 9 years ago.
What I wanted to say tough is this. Condemning a bullet as no good based on one failure for whatever reason is statistically insignificant
Way back in the mid 1970's I loaded up the bullet the OP asked about in my 30-06 for a deer hunt. That was during the time when the Mule Deer population dropped drastically for some reason and we'd seen nothing. I got a crack at a coyote about 250 yards out and the 165 gr. Siera HPBT smacked him good. We paced it off and found a two piece coyote. I never shot another animal with that bullet. Too fragile.
In 1978, the last year I hunted Nevada I shot the biggest bodied Mule Deer I've ever seen. Total weight of the skinned quarters on a certified butcher's scale was 296 pounds. The same 30-06 was used but this time I was shooting 180 gr. Nosler Partitions. First shot nicked the heart, shot #2 was through the lungs three was a miss, four broke and antler and my last shot broke its neck. When I opened him up, the I found the first bullet just grazed the heart, The lung shot looked like someone had poked both lungs with a pencil the fifth aand last shot shot broke it's neck. Didn't use Nosler Partitions for a very long time after that.
For a very long time I held the opinion that those two bullets were no good and I would not use them. All based on what happened with one kill with either bullet. Currently my elk rifle is a .35 Whelen shooting the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. Three elk with that load, all one shot kills. One hunting partner shoots a 7MM Rem. Mag. and the 160 gr. Accubond at 3000 MV. I've seen him take two elk with that rifle, again one shot kills. This last January we added another fellow to out group and he dropped his elk with a .270 WSM shooting the 150 gr. Sierra Game King. Again, statisically it doesn't prove squat but it's been enough to make me look at bullets with a more open mind.
Paul B.

south,
I'm not going to read all the blather as I see it has devolved very quickly.
The only thing I want to say is there are better choices than a hollow point bullet. It is not needed and may get you in trouble with a closer than expected shot.
If you want to use a cup and core, fine, the guys have killed many elk with Power Points and .270's in our camp.
Good luck.

PT AB TTSX Swifts just to name a few,

I bet they just slay thousands of elk in Mn.!!!!

In an earlier post I stated the following:



That still stands true. Placement is king. That said, I choose tougher bullets because I worry more about what happens when things go south than when they go as planned. Dad gave me a Ruger American .30-06 last year, along with 4 boxes of Federal 165g Sierra GameKings and a box of Federal 165g Trophy Bonded Tip. Last weekend I had an opportunity to shoot both loads into water jugs.

Stick a GameKing in the lungs and elk will die, but take a look at the recovered 165g GameKing and 165g Trophy Bonded Tip bullets in the photo. Also look at the 225g .338 bullets, two cup-and-core Hornady SST bullets and one Nosler AccuBond.



Here is another photo of bullets recovered from water jugs.


Left to right:
4 jugs == .45-70, Sierra 200g FP .458" @ 2390fps, 81% weight retention (left group of five, front row center)
6 jugs == .45-70, Speer 300g Uni-Cor .458" @ 2247fps, 59.6% to 72.5% weight retention, 68.8% average (remainder of left group)
8 jugs == .45-70, Speer 350g FP .458" @ 2147fps, 87.6% weight retention
6 jugs == .45-70, North Fork 350g .458" @ 2189fps, 97.4% weight retention
9 jugs == .45-70, Cast Performance 460g WFNGC .458" @ 1812fps, 76.5% weight retention
5 jugs == .375 Winchester, Hornady 220g FP .375" @2230fps, 65.7% weight retention
7 jugs == .300 Win Mag, Barnes 180g MRX .308" @ 3100fps, 93.4% weight retention

In the image above, pay particular attention to the last bullet, a Barnes 180g MRX (similar to the TTSX but with a tungsten core in the caboose). It penetrated almost twice as many jugs as the .30-06 GameKing or Trophy Bonded. We have yet to recover an MRX or TTSX from deer, antelope or elk. I've taken three elk with AccuBonds (one with a .30-06/150g and two with a .338WM/225g) and all were compete pass-throughs. I don't expect pass-throughs will always be the case but I do expect them to hold together better than cup-and-core bullets, with deeper penetration the result.

If all you have is a bad angle on a fleeing and possibly wounded elk, which type of bullet construction would you rather trust - a standard cup-and-core or a bonded core (ala Trophy Bonded and AccuBond), or maybe a mono-metal like the Barnes TTSX?

For me there is no question. This fall I'll be hunting elk with the Ruger American Dad gave me last year. I had considered using the Sierra Game Kings because I had the 4 boxes Dad gave me. After trying them on water jugs I'll be using something else - perhaps the 165g Trophy Bonded Tip or .30-06 loads I already use, a 150g AccuBond, Barnes 168g TTSX or a 165g North Fork SS. In any case it will be something I trust won't come unglued on impact.

CH: Interesting test and thanks for posting.

Some comments/observations: Interesting that the 30 cal Trophy Bonded Tip had more frontal area and retained weight than the 338/225 AB.But did not penetrate quite as much.

Second, the 300 Win Mag/180 MRX seems to show that you don't leave penetration on the table with high speed bullet impact, if bullet construction is up to the task.

Water is good, but I wonder what results would have been with some heavy bone mixed in

this!

The HPBT is actually tougher than the Gameking in my experience.

If I were traveling a long ways to shoot elk I'd go with something different I suppose. My '06 likes the 165's also but shoot's 180's well enough that I have no issue using them. I've never tried a Texas Heart Shot but then again I'm not from Texas.

What you shoot them with has much less to due with killing than where you hit them.

Bob -

Hard to say what bone would do if added, other than cause inconsistency in the target media making shot comparisons less direct. (Getting big bones into a water jug would be an interesting endeavor... ) I do have some photos of bullets recovered after impacting bone in game, however, and the results are - at least to me - informative.





Left to right:

350g North Fork, .45-70, 6x6 elk, 213 yards, 2181fps MV, retained weight 271.5g (77.6%), .623" expansion (excepting the 'helicopter wing', which probably unfolded on impact with the last rib)
160g Grand Slam, 7mm Rem Mag, 5x5 elk, ~110 yards, ~2900fps MV, Retained weight 113.7g (71.1%), .542" expansion
162g Hornady BTSP, spike elk, ~110 yards, ~2900fps MV, retained weight 77.2g (47.7%), .593" expansion
180g North Fork, .300 Win Mag, 200-yard steel, 3032fps MV, retained weight 85.0g (47.2%), .486" avg. expansion

The .45-70 350g North Fork hit low on a broadside, obliterating a section of the left front leg and near rib and shattering a far rib before coming to rest under the hide. Somehow the bull remained standing but tipped over before I could get another shot off.

The Speer Grand Slam and Hornady BTSP InterLock were both fired from the same range from the same rifle at roughly the same speed. The Hornady hit a near rib dead center leaving an caliber sized entrance hole in it and a rib-wide crater on the back side. It missed or lightly nicked the far side ribs and came to rest under the hide on the off side. That was my first elk and the last time I've used standard cup-and-core bullets in my bolt rifles when hunting, switching to Speer Grand Slams the following year. Some 20 years later I recovered my first and only Grand Slam. It had destroyed both shoulder joints of a 5x5 bull and came to rest under the hide on the off side. IMHO the challenge to the integrity of the Grand Slam was much greater than that for the Hornady InterLock. While they both penetrated to the far side the Grand Slam did a heck of a lot more damage on the way there.

The North Fork SS embedded itself in the 200 yard steel, as did all three or four I tried. This was the only one I could dig out of the steel and, while it didn't retain much weight, the North Fork SS were the only bullets that didn't fly to flinders. Cup-and-core bullets turned to shrapnel, shredding nearby paper targets. Barnes XLC bullets made nice depressions and gave them a beautiful copper plate finish but we couldn't find any remnants. They also shredded nearby targets, lending support to the belief they came apart as well. This is not to suggest North Fork SS are better bullets for game, as steel is far different than flesh and bone. I've recovered North Fork bullets from game but have never recovered a Barnes XLC, MRX or TTSX. It takes a lot of bone to stop the North Forks. I guess it takes even more to stop a Barnes.

Here's another North Fork recovered from elk after hitting ribs on both sides and breaking the off-side front leg:

.30-06/North Fork SS, 165g, 2800fps MV, 25 yards, .586" average expansion





(It is snowing with 6-10" accumulation expected and other than going downstairs to do some reloading, no, I don't have anything better to do. )

CH. Interesting photos. I'm going to have to get you a few rounds of my 30-06 220 gr round nose to shoot for comparison.

I can never get that many jugs.

I could leave them out at BLGC for you to pick up if interested.

Great pictures. I just loaded some 270 grain Northforks to try in my 35 Newton. Can't wait to stuff one into the jugs.

You're asking the right question. IME which bullet to use is one of THE most important questions when it comes to the terminal performance needed on a elk.

I stayed with 165 Sierras too long because my 30-06 loved them and shot tiny groups. I killed several elk and other critters and was more bothered all the time as I cut up animals. They were dead but the bullet performance was quite inconsistent in penetration, expansion and in sometimes shedding jackets too soon.

I kept killing elk till with them until I shot a good bull through a shoulder angle that needed considerable penetration and lost him. I know exactly where I hit him from evidence of sight picture and cut hair in relation to his tracks. I hit him where I intended and it was my fault that I chose a bullet not up to what I asked of it that time. That bull deserved better.

I went to 180 Nosler Partitions for years. They never shot the same tight groups but they performed far better on elk, even if they were an inch off of where the Sierra would have hit. FWIW they did NOT kill deer and smaller bears quite as quickly as the 165 did with a double lung shot. A dozen years ago I switched to 180 Swift A-Frame that shoot MOA in my 30-06 and do a superb job on elk, even more consistent terminal performance & damage than NP's IME.

Your philosophy is a factor. IMO overkill is good. Extra margins of penetration are good. Cup & core work better than bare lead and as a teen I killed elk with 130 grain cup & core from a 30-30. But I don't drive a Model A Ford and don't drive big game bullets from that era anymore. Last week while hunting a black bear that I knew was huge, I talked it over with a guide friend and went with 180 Swift A-Frames instead of a bonded 165 grain even though IME black bears are relatively easy to kill. In the event the 165 would have killed as quick or quicker, but I wanted to insure an exit and blood trail if the bullet took a long path through an extra large critter.

Good luck on your elk!