What happened to the 243 and 7-08? I could see the 223 appeal, but what is the allure of the 308 now?
Jason
Likely just a rabbit trail to be explored before getting back on track. I'm still heavy between the 243 and 223. Availability may win the race when I'm ready to run. I can't see the 243 not doing everything I want and the 223 might do it just as well with less recoil and powder if the rifle shoots the heavies well and I can easily do any mods needed for the heavies.
It started as 243 VS 7-08 and delved into the 223 per Boxers recommendations, and now the possibility of the 308 which fits my needs very well but I would also like something with recoil low enough that the wife and kids won't completely shun it. There is really no need for magnums or long range in my neck of the woods anyway. Shots are likely to be in wooded areas and under 100 yards , with the exception of a rare clear cut or power line 200 yard shot.
This just seems right for a .243 and tsx/ttsx...bet the 80 grn factory Barnes ammo would do about an inch or less at 100 yards. Or factory 95 grn Winchester ballistic tips. I have used both out to 200 yards and none run farther than 40 yards-most drop within 20 feet.
I think the way to start kids shooting is to start them at about 7 or 8 years of age with a single shot 10 gauge shotgun with three and a half inch slug load. That way, you can find out if they are really really serious about wanting to shoot, and the lack of sights makes them into good stalkers. The recoil and price of ammo will teach them not to waste ammo. If they don't wimp out, at about age 15 let them have a recoil pad. Mistake a lot of people make when training new shooters is to let them wear ear protection. This is the age when you need to toughen them up to loud noises.
Have killed alotta 400yd+ Venison with .378" boltfaces and have never seen one go that far.
'Course I'm in da bidness of breaking bone,as I don't shoot to be "nice". Meat gets shot in the ear,Booners get broked shoulders.
Noone has more 243 Love than I,but for applications cited,it's a Montucky 223 Show.
If I am pulling the trigger, a .223 if a fine choice. But I've seen them run several hundred yards with a broken shoulder from a .223. I have also seen them go down like lighting struck with a .223. I don't do head/neck shots.
If I have a kiddo pulling the trigger I prefer a little more margin for error, because a lot of times the error is there. An 80 grn ttsx from a .243 on southern whitetails under 200 yards with most shots about 100 yards is ideal in my book. Especially for youth/recoil sensitive shooters...
My experience with several kids has convinced me of the exact opposite conclusion. For a kiddo that's relatively new to shooting and hunting, I prefer a .223 in their hands.
I've seen a handful of kids with limited exposure, and ample time behind a trigger intimidated by a .243
Put a kid behind a .22lr and a .223 and they'll gladly shoot till there's no more ammunition. They learn good shooting habits (and safety of course) and have absolutely no fear in the rifles muzzle blast and recoil (which is almost non-existent). With the amount of time yanking triggers, it's no biggie for them to make clean ethical kills with a .223 loaded with an appropriate bullet.
My own kids, nephews, and friends kiddo's have over the years killed piles of deer, exotics, and feral hogs with the lowly .223 without an issue.
Another one of my nephews and a friends son are just now cutting their shooting/hunting teeth on a .223 Rem I set up specifically for youngsters. This weekend saw them popping 62gr. TSX and even .22lr out to 200 yards from sticks and hunting positions.
Their ear to ear grin is down right infectious. No doubt both will have no issue killing a deer or three this coming Fall.
I think the way to start kids shooting is to start them at about 7 or 8 years of age with a single shot 10 gauge shotgun with three and a half inch slug load. That way, you can find out if they are really really serious about wanting to shoot, and the lack of sights makes them into good stalkers. The recoil and price of ammo will teach them not to waste ammo. If they don't wimp out, at about age 15 let them have a recoil pad. Mistake a lot of people make when training new shooters is to let them wear ear protection. This is the age when you need to toughen them up to loud noises.
yeah, that's the ticket
knock the bejeezus out of 'em.
I'm sure they say, thank you sir, may I have another.
I carried my 9 year old on a youth dove hunt this year. Her gun was a very light weight single barrel 20 gauge. I actually didn't think she would be shooting since she had said she just wanted to go along and retrieve birds and sit with me in the field but I carried a gun for her anyway.
After several birds, she says, "Dad, I want to shoot." So I set her up and when the next bird came by she stood up from her chair and fired one off. The blast sat her back down and knocked her hat off. I expected that to be the end but she stood up and with a huge grin said, "Dad, that was awesome!" That little bugger shot a whole box of shells that day and she said that she had the best time she had ever had hunting. She wasn't bothered by the recoil at all, even though I considered that old single barrel a kicker.
I was taught the value of the first shot by a sheridan .20 pellet gun.
In the early 60's, Sheridan silver Streaks were usually worshipped from afar. Guys that had those in our neighborhood were ultimately cool. Daisy pumps here, if we were lucky.
I'm with you,in that this schit is VERY funny...especially when the Texans do their best.(grin)
Much to be said for settin' 'em up for success,via Good Riggin' slated to the task(s) and comfortably within their Fun Factor. I getta kick outta The Spark Plug Pulling Deception Ruse,seemingly in vogue with the Haybale & Crockett crowd. MUCH to be said for familiarity with a chambering/boolit,due Grintitude and the lotsa empty brass.
Let a kid go MPAJ with a Montucky 223/6x42 and let 'em steal the show at the 400yd+ line on clay birds,if only as an initial confidence boost.
Venison ain't got a [bleep] chance...by design.
'gant,
It do get nice,when they can load their own.(grin)
lubbock',
Error is minimized via proficiency and proficiency is a byproduct of trigger time and Fun connects all them dots. Hint.
The greatest connect percentages ain't realized,via Deception...they're realized by a genuine hankerin' to make empties. Nothing fuels that fire like minimal recoil,minimal blast,eerie Precision and nice BC's at nice speeds.
'Course it's easy for me to say,I got it all.
Hint.
FO,
Good boolits,in good places...reliably do great thangs.
Killing is the easiest part of any Hunt to control and why in the [bleep] these ignorant dumbfhukks go outta their way to [bleep] easy schit up,is beyond me?!?
Though I do dig the humor!
'Clark,
Making noise with a Scattergun,is an issue far separate from punchin' Tags.
Hint.
pak,
There's several exceedingly WELL used RWS Springers in the house and MPAJ POA/POI braggin' rights...are held in the highest esteem. One has LOP lopped to 11.5" or so. Easy to connect dots,with a platform that'll yield good Precision,via rather good trigger.
Let 'em dump/hold 600yd dope in a 22LR Anschutz and punching Tags is all things but "difficult".(grin)
Never will savvy why folks is in such a hurry,to pawn Schit Riggin' off on the Duffers?!?
My Sheridan was a 22,my Cousin's a 5mm and them forays never hurt results.(grin)
The greatest connect percentages ain't realized,via Deception...they're realized by a genuine hankerin' to make empties. Nothing fuels that fire like minimal recoil,minimal blast,eerie Precision and nice BC's at nice speeds.
have no idear why folks resist this notion so steadfastly. the rule is just as applicable to grownup males as it is to the "frail" women and kids
Making noise with a Scattergun,is an issue far separate from punchin' Tags.
Hint.
Absolutely. Just sharing a little. I am leaning toward the 223 for all the reasons you are saying. I know you favor the Amax but what are some other good choices supposing mine doesn't want to shoot them? I would guess the 62 Barnes but what else in the world of scarce components and ammo?
Stupid [bleep],is always gonna do stupid schit...which is of course a hilarious constant.
I've rolled miles of video footage with the sound off,so as to let folks guess the platform that dealt the terminal affects and that is usually purty funny on the average and often outright hilarious.(grin)
You cain't miss something with a catridge/boolit "big enough",to turn it into a hit. That reality [bleep] alotta Window Lickers up! I can only lead 'em to water,I cain't make 'em drink.
A sub 6lb 1000yd+ capable rifle,of very minimal recoil and blast...don't take long to warm up to.
Hint.(grin)
'Clark,
Folks are seemingly in a hurry to forget,that these ARE The Good Old Days. There's so many Venison Capable boolits out there,that you'd play hell finding one that weren't.
THE money maker,is always gonna be proficiency,which cain't be begged,borrowed or stolen. Set 'em up,feed the fire,let 'em get good with grins on their faces and start punching Tags.
No, not yet, but this whole thread was designed to help me pick the right Montana for when I am reloading. My original question was to determine if any caliber Montana lent it's self to better accuracy via mag box length, throat length, twist rates, and other such parameters that reloaders are knowledgeable about.
It started as 243 VS 7-08 and delved into the 223 per Boxers recommendations, and now the possibility of the 308 which fits my needs very well but I would also like something with recoil low enough that the wife and kids won't completely shun it. There is really no need for magnums or long range in my neck of the woods anyway. Shots are likely to be in wooded areas and under 100 yards , with the exception of a rare clear cut or power line 200 yard shot.
Clark - WITF makes you think the Montana will fit the wife and kids or they will want to shoot it? Just buy WTF you want. It's PDS.
There is no accounting for taste.
Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.
Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however, Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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