Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders New Knight Ultra-Lite

My new Knight Ultra-Lite .50 arrived yesterday. It has a 24 inch light barrel, Kevlar stock, adjustable trigger, no sights, and bare 209 ignition. Weighs 6 lbs. I also purchased a 2-7 Leupold ML scope and Knight bases and rings.

I plan to shoot Hornady 350 gr. FPBs over Blackhorn 209, provided they group okay.

The rifle is nice and light and well balanced. The trigger is good. It looks like a well-made piece, almost like a semi-custom centerfire.

My only gripe so far is that there was a little surface rust on the trigger, easily removed with an oily paper towel, and that the front base screws will have to be shortened a bit. Otherwise, I'm pretty satisfied.

Sounds like a first class outfit. I like the looks of the new Knights. I had a Disc Elite that was a great shooter but I hated the blow back around the plastic primer holders.

Hope you like it. I have a KP1, it's a heavy sob though.

They are going to start making the KPX, an improved version of the KP1. Hopefully there will be a lot of interchangeability with the KP1. I always liked it, but was scared off by the alleged problems and ultimately, lack of parts and support. It's a lot better looking than the T/C guns.

More than likely they'll do one way interchangeability....KP1 barrels will fit the KPX frames, but KPX barrels won't fit KP1 frames. I have a KP1 with .223, .30-06 & .50ML barrels. I should get a .45-70 while Knight still has them.

Mines done very well for me. I'm sure you'll love it.

Mine shoots the Knight Bloodlines very good, and they really impressed me on whitetails.

Seems like the breech plug in those (could be all Knights, I'm not sure) were designed to take the Winchester 209s, instead of the ones marketed for MLs. I tried 5 or 6 different primers, and they grouped the best. Came out clean and shiny with no blowback at all.

Where did you hear that??? I never had any problems with mine. What kind of problems?

I've got the 50 cal, and a 204 ruger barrel for mine. Was thinking about a 270 barrel.

Did you try Cheddite primers? They are supposed to fit very snuggly and also have a sealer applied. I picked up a pack of regular W209s to get started, but I'm hoping to find the Cheddites locally for comparison.
I plan to add a western ignition later for real BP and Pyrodex and probably a REAL mold as well.
Do you think the bore coating really helps keep fouling down?

Thanks for the help.

By the way, I got the green one as well. $706 from Sportsmans Guide and just missed a $100 price jump.

Google KP1 and then follow the links that reference KP1 trouble. There were some ignition issues and reports of the trigger group dropping out. If yours is a later model, the bugs may have been cleared up.
The 2014 Knight catalog includes the KPX, but the website doesn't show it yet.

I don't know how much it really keeps down fouling but I use UBC on all my muzzleloaders and it does make them clean easier and rust proofs the bore.

I did not try the Cheddite primers. I stopped trying different ones after I saw how clean the W209s came out. They're always available at my local Walmarts, so that's a plus.

As far as the bore coating goes, I have no idea. Mine seems to clean as easy or easier than any other BP rifle I've had, and does look smoother.

6 lbs, that is nice. My T/C Triumph is 6 lbs 4 oz and that is just about perfect, handles and points really nice.

Good luck with it.

The only way I'm going to be able to get a decent supply of 209s is to order them online and pay the Hazmat fee. One shop has W209s for about 8 BUCKS!, another had some CCIs and one pack of Winchester for about 5. Online prices run from $24 to $30 something per K, plus Hazmat.

What part of WV are you in?

Jefferson County, right down in that little pointy thing on the end of the Eastern Panhandle.

Oh, was hoping you might be in the southern part.

I like that a lot.

I have 2 Knights....

No, but I killed a nice buck and a few grouse in Raleigh County in the '90s. My MIL lives in Sundial, a few miles from where those miners were killed a few years ago. There are actually a few real european boars (NOT feral hogs or crosses) in the area, placed by the state, as well as lots of bears and coyotes. Not a bad place to live if you don't need a job and don't mind living surrounded by druggies, thieves, and public assistance scammers. Lots of good folks too, of course.

If you use 100 grs of powder, and get that bullet up to 1400 fps, you'll be generating over 40 ft/lbs of recoil, or about the same as a .458 Winchester Magnum
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Actually, I've shot that bullet over 100gr. of FF, also 100gr. equivalent of 777 in my Greyhawk, and found it no more unpleasant than a 12ga. slug. Wouldn't want to shoot 100 of them, but not so bad.
The Blackhorn 209 data sheet shows 100gr. eq. (70 by wt.) at 1701 fps in a 26" barrel, and 120gr. eq. (84 by wt.) at 1909.
If you wanna get a good whack, try plain old 405gr. Remington .45/70 loads from the bench in a Browning 78 with the steel, curved, rifle butt. Now that's fun!

A 458WinMag will shoot a 350gr FAR faster than 1400fps. A 45/70 and several old "straight wall" calibers can manage those speeds.

My 45 smokless at 2600-2700 fps and a 275gr Parker doesn't even feel as bad a 375H&H but its gettin close.

120gr by volume of BH209 and a 400gr does rock you though in a lighter rifle. Ive shot a few of the Harvester 400gr hardcasts. IIRC they are moving around 1830fps. Thats pretty much in the 45/70 Ruger #1 load data level depending on rifle weight.

So now we're concerned over other people's recoil tolerance? That is rich. Not that I believe that comparison by the way. I shoot 350's and BH209 in my rifle and they generate relatively tame recoil. And I'm not guessing or quoting Chuck Hawks.

Seriously though, if you use 100 grains of BH209 behind a .50 cal. 350 grain bullet and only get 1400 fps, it's time for a new chronograph.

Yeah, that does sound a little out of line, unless the .458 is loaded down. Just off the top of my head, a good .375 load generates more than 40lbs, again, not that bad, depending on rifle weight, stock design, etc.
My new Knight has a good, straight stock, and should handle recoil just fine.

Recoil with a 300 gr Bloodline over 120 grs of BH209 isn't bad at all.

That has absolutely nothing at all to do with the amount of recoil the muzzleloader will generate

Those were just the numbers I used to calculate the recoil

Try reading what I wrote one more time
If you don't believe the numbers, the link I posted will show you comparisons, and you can run the figures through any ballistics computer

Better yet, why not shoot an actual 350 grain bullet out of an actual 6-lb muzzleloader and then get back to us.

i shoot a 370 maxiball out of my strikerfire, thats 7lbs scoped. Not bad, accurate but not bad on recoil with 80gr clean shot.

Done it many times skippy. A 385gr and 400gr with 120gr by volume (84gr by weight) of BH209 was a far cry from a 458WinMag in felt recoil.

That was in a 6-7lb ML.

Ive also shot quite a few 460-490gr conicals upto 1400fps with other subs and its no where near as unpleasant. Not even in the same league.

You really think a 400gr at 1800fps has a similar recoil as a 400gr at 2400fps even with a 2-3lb difference in rifle weight? LMFAO Use whatever calculator you wish, my shoulder tells me a different story. The relatively small 10% difference in calculator numbers feels far worse.

No way, Chuck Hawks Rules!!!!

I never said one word about "FELT" recoil.

It's obvious you aren't comprehending anything I wrote, and you seem to think your "shoulder" somehow makes actual mathematics incorrect

There's not much point in continuing a discussion when you fabricate what I said, and go off on tangents about different bullets than everyone else.

The math doesn't lie.
You can argue with it if you like, but it makes you look silly to do so

There's not much point in contimuing a discussion with someone who thinks "calculations" based on something he looked up on Chuck Hawks' website are more significant than three or four guys' real-world experience.

You need to get off the couch every now and then.

Well mine's a newer version so I can't speak directly of some of the older KP1's but I've never had my trigger fall out and I don't really have many ignition issues and that is using a bare 209 breech without it even being vented. Besides if you use the newer sealed breech plug that's vented and built for BH209 there's no argument. Your points are nullified.

But like any gun you can "Google" it and find people whining about something!

And there you have it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can tell if you have the new retrofitted KP1 trigger group by the shape of the trigger. The "new" ones have a straighter trigger profile like the one below and did away with the hammer "safety" lever. Knight fitted these trigger groups to the guns they had left in stock and would replace a customers trigger group if they returned the gun for "ignition" problems. These problems were not due to breech plug design, but a hammer & transfer bar issue.

Unwad your panties, friend. I wasn't picking on your gun. I said I liked it. Actually, I spent a good bit of time looking in to buying one, but by that time, the supply of barrels and other parts was getting thin. May look into the new ones after I get the current crop of new acquisitions settled in.

From what I've read, Knight has corrected the problems for those who had them. At the time I was looking, that was not the case. I've had considerable contact with their customer service over the last couple of months and they seem very committed to giving folks what they want or need.

I was just correcting the statement with fact, I wasn't trying to incite array panties.

Anyway here is my trigger group and I have a hammer safety. I'll have to check the serial number and maybe pull the year of birth. Seeing if tmitch's statement is correct then it looks like I have an older version for some reason?

How many barrels do you have?

.50 BP and center 30.06, however I would like to pick up a .308 or even maybe retro a BP 45-70.

.50 ML and .45.70 were what I was interested in at the time. I've got too much in the works now to start in on anything else, but maybe later.
Have you downloaded the 2014 Knight catalog? It lists the KPX in .50 w/bare primer or plastic jacket, .45/70 and .444. The .444 has a 20-inch twist, which ought to make some folks happy.

I don't think there were two versions of the KP1 rifle per se, just the trigger group. I'm not sure of the exact timeline, but the revised trigger group came along about the time Knight ceased production. It came about due to customer complaints of misfires and trigger group unlatching. I think the unlatching problem was a combination of shallow locking pin engagement and the shooters trigger finger contacting the release latch. If you compare the two trigger profiles, there's a smaller gap between it and the latch on the newer trigger so getting your trigger finger behind the latch is less likely. Some of this is conjecture because there was very little information coming directly from Knight Rifles owner EBSCO Industries/PRADCO, because they were busy shutting it down. They were, and still may be, responsible for warranty issues with the KP1 and Revolution. I've read several post on different forums of people sending problem KP1s to their Decatur AL location that was/is handling the Revolution recall repairs and getting it back with the updated trigger group. Mine has the original trigger group, but honestly I haven't used it enough to experience any problems. I hope the new KPX has some interchangeability with the KP1.

I would agree with tmitch on that statement, without actually seeing and playing around with the other trigger group it sounds viable. I would like to see if they would send me the other trigger group.

On a side note, the Long Range Hunter has been advertised quite heavily for the last while? At one point I was thinking about picking one up, but cleaning another bolt action is a pain in the neck over a break action.

This is from PRADCOs Knight Revolution recall web page in case you want to check:

"Please contact us at 256-260-8950 ext 2128 for additional questions"

You can get both barrels from Knight for $209 each shipped.

Right now I'm thinking if I wait just a bit maybe they'll send me the new KPX trigger group!.....Hmmmmmm

That would be nice, BUT they may not fit the KP1. I have a feeling the new KPX made by PI/Knight will be changed slightly so as not to interchange with the old PRADCO made KP1 for liability reasons.