Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters annealing question for JB

I recently tried the method John describes in obsessions of a rifle loony for annealing cases. I put the neck and shoulder area in the flame of a candle and held onto the case just ahead of the case web area (I was doing 6br brass so I held a little farther back than described in the book since the cases are so short) and dropped them into a wet towel when they were too hot to hold. I didn't get any discoloration in the neck or shoulder area after I was done so I fear they didn't get hot enough. Is the discoloration after annealing a sign of a properly done job or are my cases ok? I would appreciate some input from someone with experience in this method of annealing.
Thanks

I don't use a candle for annealing but instead a propane torch. I hold the case being annealed between a thumb and fore finger and rotate it through the tip of the flame. I count "thousand one, thousand two etc up to thousand 7" and then remove it. With WSM cases I usually stop at "thousand six". These are about the limits of my ability to hold onto the cases and they do show a colour change when finished.

Works for me, YMMV.

Jim

I use the AnnealRite system.

http://www.cartridgeanneal.com

With that said, it uses the Tempilaq 750 deg F paint just inside the neck to change color when it hits 750 F. When i'm annealing my 6.5x47 cases, which are similar to your 6br, it takes about 6 seconds for the paint color to change. This when 2 propane torches are aimed at the neck/shoulder junction. Not sure how comparable 2 propanes torches are to 1 candle.

Alan

I use a drill, an extension, a socket, and a propane torch. Find a socket that fits the base of your case, insert the base into the socket, with the drill rotate the socket slowly over the propane flame and look for the color change at the neck/shoulder. Be careful - its not hard to overcook one. Drop it into a pan of water when the neck shoulder area start to turn color - not red, but you'll see it change color and reach a 'purple' - go no more.

I too tried to hold the brass case and didn't think I was getting it hot enough to do any good. The torch/socket method enables you to heat the case a little bit longer without getting burnt.

Does anyone bother to read the OP's question prior to formulating "the answer?"

I happen to use the Anneal Rite also. It gives the cases the "annealed color." Prior to that I used the candle method (same as the OP) and did not get the same color but I do believe the cases got hot enough because the method worked. New cases are generally annealed at the factory, yet not all exhibit the "annealed color" like Lapua cases for example so I'm not sure that color is a good indicator.

I'll be interested to hear John's response too.

While we're waiting for JB to answer your question, I do this only for the first case to save myself a little pain.

I hold the case until it's too hot to hold while counting the seconds. Then I put a leather glove on my hand and hold the remaining cases for the same number of seconds.

FWIW, I don't see the Lake City color, either.

I've settled on a slight variation of the candle method. I made an alcohol burner that doesn't produce soot so you can see the color change as you're annealing.

It's similar to this ...



The heat is not as intense as a propane torch, it gradually heats the cases just like a candle, and it does produce a Lapua like discoloration.

FWIW, I know JB has tested the candle method and it does anneal cases properly.

Does your wife know you borrowed that?

Thanks fish head - I have one of those downstairs for use on saxophone repair, but hadn't thought about using it for annealing...

The "hold it until it's too hot" business always seems to me a lot like driving successively heavier trucks across a bridge until it collapses to determine its weight limit.

My wife's name is Bubba and she made it for me.

A horseradish jar, a piece of tubing from an acid brush, some solder, and cotton string for a wick.

Did you bother to read my post before you selectively quoted it? I referenced the method he opined on, gave my experience with the same method, then formulated my response to the issue he posted about - r.e. hot enough annealing temperature.

You did the exact same thing in your response................

Most ALL cases are annealed as the final step after forming. The telltale annealing ring discoloration comes right off with a bit of tumbling and/or acid washing.

Annealing is linear based on temperature. There is some degree of softening and recrystallization of the brass structure once that threshold is reached. Best I recall that's around 465�, and it gets softer and softer until it goes dead soft up around 1200� where it's ruined. (Don't have the exact temps off the top of my head.) In between there the extent of annealing varies with the temperature. So, you can have no annealing ring and still have some sufficient softening to prevent splitting the necks.

That's really strange, I could've sworn you said you used a propane torch. As opposed to the OP's candle. Did I miss something?

I believe with the candle you're relatively safe, as far as over-heating the necks.

It's helpful to anneal in a darkened room so that the eye can detect the subtle color change of the brass, and to keep in mind that a fully annealed state is not necessary or desirable for our purposes. The correct temperature is reached before the brass begins to change to red.

All we are after here is keeping the brass in a non-brittle state of temper so that it flexes when expanded on firing, or when case forming, and that is accomplished at lower temps.

Practice on non-usable cases.

My concern is with the fingers.

Mine too. That's why I use the Anneal Rite.

I use the AnnealRite and it takes 2.5 seconds to turn the 750 Tempilaq inside the case mouth on Lapua 308 brass. Wonder why the big difference? Six seconds seems like a long time. I notice in the AnnealRite video it is taking him approximately 3 seconds.

Yeah it is. Pretty sure the question was whether the lack of a color change using the JB method constituted a properly annealed case. Am also pretty sure I answered in my opinion and preferred method - having done both. Apparently, I didn't phrase my response to your satisfaction.