|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
Just suppose you had to compete with a pistol that met these requirements, what would it be?
Double stack Minimum 5# trigger pull (DAO) Completely factory-No internal or external mods
What would it be for fast accurate shooting, at a max distance of 25 yards?
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
SIG full size, in whatever caliber fit the bill.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,824 Likes: 30
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,824 Likes: 30 |
Just suppose you had to compete with a pistol that met these requirements, what would it be?
Double stack Minimum 5# trigger pull (DAO) Completely factory-No internal or external mods
What would it be for fast accurate shooting, at a max distance of 25 yards? S&W M&P.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,171 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,171 Likes: 6 |
Does Para make the LDA anymore? That might fit the bill.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357 |
That is a very good question. I need time to think about it.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,171 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,171 Likes: 6 |
But then again I would go with the Glock 41.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,357 |
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,915 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,915 Likes: 1 |
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5 |
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,827 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,827 Likes: 1 |
That I already own:
Beretta 92FS Brigadier INOX - 9MM Fabrique Nationale Hi-Power - 40 S&W
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664 |
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
That's almost certainly what it'll be, unless I can find a significantly better option. Does Para make the LDA anymore? That might fit the bill. I had forgotten about the LDA, but that could work if I could find one. If I can get STI to put a 5.5# trigger in a 9mm 2011 that would be the leading the pack. But dang that'd be expensive. ----------------- Part of the hang up is "no modifications at all". Even an M&P Pro wouldn't meet the trigger requirement, they're too light. I can't even modify a gun to make the trigger heavier.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,736 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,736 Likes: 1 |
I'd choose the M&P for sure.
NRA LIFE MEMBER GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS! "Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself." -Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450 |
Just suppose you had to compete with a pistol that met these requirements, what would it be?
Double stack Minimum 5# trigger pull (DAO) Completely factory-No internal or external mods
What would it be for fast accurate shooting, at a max distance of 25 yards? S&W M&P. All the way
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
Walther PPQ Long Slide.
And I've owned or own every pistol mentioned in this thread except an STI.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,066 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,066 Likes: 1 |
One of the third generation S&W's would fit the bill.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,159
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,159 |
I like 92; like this 92G Brigadier Elite:
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,133
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,133 |
Does the LDA have a 5 lb trigger? I would go with that or a Springfield XDM Competition.
�That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.� George Orwell
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487 |
Just suppose you had to compete with a pistol that met these requirements, what would it be?
Double stack Minimum 5# trigger pull (DAO) Completely factory-No internal or external mods
What would it be for fast accurate shooting, at a max distance of 25 yards? �..what the heck kind of competition is this? Who set the rules and why in the world did they pick that mix of criteria? Just curious.
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
World Police Games, they'll will be in Virginia next year.
They specify 5# trigger and no mods. I added DAO because I can't think of a SA pistol with a pull that heavy and DA/SA messes with my head. I say double stack because I don't want to be reloading while everyone else is shooting, there's not a single stack division.
The rules aren't finalized yet and I won't know for a while that I'm for sure going on "work time", so there's still a lot up in the air. I'm just thinking out loud here.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,244
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,244 |
Walther PPQ M2. As ergonomic as an M&P, far better stock trigger, and I'd be willing to bet that a comparison with a machine rest would show it to have better mechanical accuracy.
(I'm talking 9mmP here....I have no idea what a comparison with .40 S&W would show.)
Or an HK with the light LEM trigger.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,525
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,525 |
One of the third generation S&W's would fit the bill. The early third gen (pre-TSW) Smiths have a really nice DAO trigger, plus you can get one in all steel to soak up the recoil.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
Walther PPQ M2. As ergonomic as an M&P, far better stock trigger, and I'd be willing to bet that a comparison with a machine rest would show it to have better mechanical accuracy.
I'm betting near all of these fellas throwing the M&P up as the best choice have never sniffed a PPQ M2, let alone fired one. Just for the hell of it, I pulled out a Glock 19 3rd Gen, S&W M&P 9, Springfield XD 9 Tactical and Walther PPQ M2 and compared the triggers side by side. I also compared the triggers to a Walther p99 AS and Glock 23 2nd gen which also meet the OP's specs, but since they are .40 S&W, I will keep them separate. I dare say a 2nd gen Beretta 92 would possibly be the best of all, but its disqualified by being an DA/SA. A Glock 34 may have been a good choice as well, but doesn't meet the 5 lb trigger req. Too bad I got rid of my LDA a few months ago or we could have included that. The PPQ trigger won hands down. Even compared to it's brother the P99 AS, there was no contest. In order of my preference based solely on trigger: PPQ *P99 AS M&P Glock 19 *Glock 23 XD Tactical (great ergonomics, shytty trigger) * .40S&W
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,162
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,162 |
Based upon my just-completed testing, I'd have to go with the new PPQ M2 5-in. pistol. Great trigger, good accuracy and ergonomics, and nary a bobble. This model is, in fact, targeted specifically at competitive shooters.
If you're fixin' to put a hole in something, make it a hole to remember.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,824 Likes: 30
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,824 Likes: 30 |
I fell for the PPQ hype early on and got one. Positively hated the trigger action feel at the range. I traded it to a friend for his nearly new-in-box Sig P220 SAO. Still very happy with the trade.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
I fell for the PPQ hype early on and got one. Positively hated the trigger action feel at the range. I traded it to a friend for his nearly new-in-box Sig P220 SAO. Still very happy with the trade. I bet you are happy with a trade of a $600 gun for a $1100 gun. However, you're comparing apples to grapefruit. Of course a decent SA can beat the trigger on any DAO. Let's compare a Sako bolt action trigger to an AR next.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,700 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,700 Likes: 3 |
Just suppose you had to compete with a pistol that met these requirements, what would it be?
Double stack Minimum 5# trigger pull (DAO) Completely factory-No internal or external mods
What would it be for fast accurate shooting, at a max distance of 25 yards? I recently had an H&K USP Expert in 9mm. I'm not sure about the trigger poundage, but otherwise I really liked that pistol. It came with 18 round magazines when fitted for the factory speed chute option.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I can love a Beretta Brigadier DAO.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,244
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,244 |
I guess because it's been a few years since I spent any trigger time with one, but I can't believe I forgot a great design that would probably meet your requirements: A SIG (P229,P226) with the DAK (Double Action-Kellerman) trigger. I really liked the 229 I shot with the DAK trigger: Around six-pound pull, no stacking, decent reset. Also a double-strike capability. I never put a trigger gauge on the one I shot, but most published data I've seen lists a trigger pull of 5.5 to 6.5 pounds.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,840 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,840 Likes: 1 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,649 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,649 Likes: 1 |
If the Beretta couldn't be used, then I think, for my taste, it's a toss up between as M&P 9L Pro C.o.R.E. or a Glock 17.
Not really sure how the weight of the stock M&P Pro trigger would come in, but the stock trigger on the G-17 could be tweaked & still remain fully stock...........but as I remember, you are not much of a Glock fan.
MM
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,261 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,261 Likes: 2 |
Trump Won!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,597 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,597 Likes: 1 |
I can love a Beretta Brigadier DAO. Travis I really like Beretta D models, and a light loaded 9mm would not need the Brigadier slide, but I fear the OP would not like the long reset. The Sig DAK trigger is more forgiving because it has a shorter reset, although short stroking to the first reset point raises the pull weight a pound or so. But, for a game such as this, it sounds like the rules were written for a Glock, M&P or XD, or Jerry Miculek with a badge.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,597 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,597 Likes: 1 |
Oh,I had a Para LDA once. Although the trigger was not heavy, to me it seemed to stack a little.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 889
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 889 |
Just suppose you had to compete with a pistol that met these requirements, what would it be?
Double stack Minimum 5# trigger pull (DAO) Completely factory-No internal or external mods
What would it be for fast accurate shooting, at a max distance of 25 yards? a DAO rig in a "competition event" will make for some tougher sledding, but with concerted efforts, you could definitely play ball... i've always felt that one of the sterling virtues of the dao rig is the absolute simplicity of the manual of arms with respect to the specific realm of lesser experienced ccw chaps--though occasionally, some experienced pistoleros utilize them too. regarding shooting competitively, you can't go wrong with the da/sa system in the sig or usp platforms--in years past, i've used both in some matches, and have won some events using both of these rigs. if the "da/sa issue" of the first shot being da as you then roll into sa "messes with your head", this can be easily overcome--always shoot sa in competition. on your draw and presentation, as the pistol comes into your support hand, the thumb of the support hand instantly and deftly cocks the hammer--just like in the two-handed usage of the colt single action army revolver--very efficient, and away you go with a consistent pull. in my experience, there is more muzzle rise in the usp than in the sig, but i've also shot some of my highest scores with the usp--a stellar platform, and i especially like it in .45 acp. one virtue of the usp is the ability to swing into different variants. if i recall, the variants 5 and 6--if you desire the control lever, or the variant 7--if sans a lever-- will fulfill your criteria of dao (though i personally prefer the variant 3--or 4, if a lefty--in conjunction with thumb cocking, equals great medicine).
all learning is like a funnel: however, contrary to popular thought, one begins with the the narrow end. the more you progress, the more it expands into greater discovery--and the less of an audience you will have...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,647
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,647 |
I have an XDM9 that sounds like your description and is sweet to shoot. Try one.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,258
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,258 |
They specify 5# trigger and no mods. I added DAO because I can't think of a SA pistol with a pull that heavy...
A stock Hi-Power will have a heavier than 5 lb trigger. Probably more like 7 or 8.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
|
|
|
|
520 members (12344mag, 1badf350, 10gaugemag, 1234, 17CalFan, 007FJ, 69 invisible),
2,412
guests, and
1,197
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,019
Posts18,500,406
Members73,986
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|