Home Forums Lever Action Central Marlin 336 Lever Actions 358 Winchester in the 336

The only difference you can see may be the chambering, but let's consider this quote from Marlin's release of the ER rifle:

"The Extra Range has Marlin's classic lever action styling and quality. It's action is machined from six solid steel forgings that are heat treated for even greater strength and durability."

Brophy page 263. Emphasis added.

It sure sounds like rifles chambered in 356 got different heat treating that rifles in lower pressure rounds. Considering the difference in pressure between a 35 Rem and a 356 that's to be expected.

I wouldn't even think about it.

Nonneman does a Rockwell hardness test on the receivers before doing the conversion. He has told me that he has never found any meaningful difference in hardness of a Marlin receiver. They all fell within a range, but none of them, from the oldest to newest, cheapest and most expensive, fell outside the normal range.

I doubt that Nonneman would do the 30-30 to 307 and 35 to 356 conversions as a normal part of his business if it was dangerous, since he would be the POA for any litigation that would be sure to come in the event of a failure.

Jeff

I don't think that quote from marlin is exclusive to the ER's It's just a statment of fact that applies to any 336 action. Why would they heat treat a normal 336 action in a way that was not optimal.

One way marlin did experiment with making the action stronger was to use a square thread design on the never released .307 chambering. That's the same design they are using on the new .308 express rifles.

One source calims they used the square threads on the .375's and er's, but I have never had one pulled apart to verify that as fact. I don't believe it's true because I think they would have used a different part number for the receiver.

I have a Nonneman conversion 336 from 35 Rem to 356 Win. It works just fine. When I talked to him about doing the job he said he could set it up for either the 356 or the 358 case, it would just be a matter of the extractor. If set up for one it may work for the other or it may not be as reliable. Made sence to me... I have tried 358 cases in my 356 and some work and some dont..by that I mean extraction is if'y with the 358's. No big deal..I wanted a 356 and that's what I use in it.

Now...I got a question that is kinda off topic. Why didn't Winchester do the 375 on the 307/356 case? WHY the 30/30? I don't get it. I'm not doggin' the 375 Win but it does seem they went the "little sister" route with their case choice. Where they worried about bolt thrust? or what? Can anyone guide me on this one?

Mark H

I've never taken a 336ER apart, but I have a 375 barrel and it had the same thread specs all any other 336. The 375 went on to become a 257 Tomcat, Frances Sells version of the 25/35AI.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. There's a member on another board that claims to be a marlin employee that said that the er's and .375's used the square threads. I didn't think that was the case.

I sent a 30-30 off recently and had it rebored and rechamber to .375 win by Jess Ocumpaugh. Less than 2 week turnaround, $170 and it shoots great!

I'll admit that the quote about heat treating is open to the interpretation that all receivers were heat treated and they just happened to mention it. However, there are plenty of good reasons why they might heat treat the 356 receivers and not others.

The extra heat treatment costs more money to perform.
The lower pressure receivers don't need it.

If so, why didn't Nonneman's testing show any meaningful difference between any Marlin 336 action? He did tell me that some of the Winchester 94 that he tested showed a degree of hardness usually found in cast iron.

I'm far from being a risk-taker or a safety margin pusher, but I feel quite confident using either of my Nonneman converted Marlin 336 rifles. I don't think that I would make it a habit of using Winchester/Olin 358 factory ammo, but I would use it in a pinch.

If you would feel uncomfortable, or unsafe, using a Nonneman converted Marlin 336, there are plenty of more expensive 356 and 358 options available to you. Just like some folks feels comfortable loading the 35 Remington to pressure levels that I would feel uncomfortable with. Not because of the strength of the Marlin rifle, but because of my concern over the ability of the 35 Remington brass to handle the higher pressure levels.

Jeff

Quote; "The only difference you can see may be the chambering, but let's consider this quote from Marlin's release of the ER rifle:

"The Extra Range has Marlin's classic lever action styling and quality. It's action is machined from six solid steel forgings that are heat treated for even greater strength and durability."

Brophy page 263. Emphasis added.

It sure sounds like rifles chambered in 356 got different heat treating that rifles in lower pressure rounds. Considering the difference in pressure between a 35 Rem and a 356 that's to be expected." End quote


I wonder why those people at Marlin didn't know that? They gave those "heat treated " receivers the same part number as the untreated receivers!

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It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Hardness isn't the only quality you are seeking when you heat treat a receiver.

That is certainly true, but I've never seen any credible documentation that the ER or 375 receivers were in any way different than the regular 336 receivers. If they were different, I think marlin would have gone out of their way to promote the added strength and they certainly would have given them different part numbers.

I'm convinced that all the receivers are the same. I'm not condoning hot rodding a 336, but I see Zero evidence that the .356 and .375 winchester are anything other than excellent and safe chamberings for a modern 336.

Weagle

Well part numbers would be a pretty good clue! Well, it was a theory that deserved looking into.

The 307/356 came five years after the 375. (1983 vs 1978) It would have been a better case to use for a 375, but it didn't exist at the time.

[/quote]

Well part numbers would be a pretty good clue! Well, it was a theory that deserved looking into. [/quote]


We need to question "facts", that's how we learn. Keep asking questions that makes one think.

Jim

"The Extra Range has Marlin's classic lever action styling and quality. It's action is machined from six solid steel forgings that are heat treated for even greater strength and durability."
In the above statement ,,It does not say the 356 ER had any exrta heat treatment...It's action is machined from six solid steel forgings that are heat treated for even greater strength and durability."
I'd say thats true for all 336 actions..
I dought Marlin would knowing make weaker actions for some of threre chamberings....

As I said before, yours is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of the quote. Since it appears that Marlin uses the same part #s for all receivers, it would seem that all the receivers are indeed alike.

WARNING! The following is speculation on how things MIGHT have been done. Please don't reply telling me it didn't happen this way!

So let's conjecture how Marlin might have used different receivers. They were making rifles at 30-30 pressures for years. They decided to launch a new line of high pressure cartridges (356 and 307). Because of the higher pressures they decide to apply a different heat treat to receivers for those cartridges. So they wouldn't be making "weaker actions for some of their chamberings". They would be making stronger receivers for the ones that need it. They wouldn't use the new heat treat on receivers for lower pressure cartridges because:

It costs more.
They don't need it.

This kind of thing happens all the time in manufacturing. It just doesn't appear to have happened in this case.

Think of the inventory issues of having two parts, identical in appearance, with different part numbers. That is what would cost more, in time, confusion, and dollars.

Since Marlin made somewhere around 3,000 336 ERs in 356 and 0 in 307, I think that it is reasonable to infer that all of those rifles were made up in 1 or 2 production runs. I don't have any idea what Marlin's production line through-put capacity is, but I'd suspect that they don't break the line down to change models any more often than necessary, since a production line that isn't working costs a lot of $$ for every hour that it is down.

While it is possible that the 336 ER receiver had some special heat treatment done, I will continue to shoot my non-factory 336s in 307 and 356 without worrying about my safety. Since I only live about 100 miles from Nonneman's shop, it is pretty easy for me to drop down to Northwestern MO and visit him. If any of you who are concerned about the safety of a Nonneman conversion had the same opportunity to meet Regan and see what kind of 'smith he is, I'm sure that you would have the same comfort level that I have.

I don't get any compensation for posting positive comments about Regan and his work, my only intent is to share my experience with anyone who might be interested in owning a Marlin in 307 or 356 that he/she can use without concern for its value.

If you want a deer rifle, a guy/gal who can shoot and hunt will probably be as successful with a 30-30 or 35 as he/she would be with a 307 or 356. OTOH, if you want a Marlin 336 that is more suited to heavier or tougher game, the extra power of the 307 and 356 might be worth the investment.

Just my 0.02, nothing more.

Jeff

Very good .02 worth, Jeff