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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,706 Likes: 17 |
If there was some way to tame the ejection...
As is, I wouldn't shoot anything but steel cased ammo in one. Yeah, there's no gas or piston system. It's just a delayed blowback "roller lock" design. Makes it necessary to rough up the cases on ejection. Extremely reliable, though, vs a piston or gas system.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,600
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,600 |
I was lucky enough to find a Springfield SAR8 on a Greek EBO receiver in 2005. $650 OTD in excellent condition. The rifle has been flawless. Haven't seen one since....
Whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,706 Likes: 17
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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I was lucky enough to find a Springfield SAR8 on a Greek EBO receiver in 2005. $650 OTD in excellent condition. The rifle has been flawless. Haven't seen one since.... They only made a few of those.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,599
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,599 |
Didn't the SAR-8 come in two versions?
Thought one was a stamped steel and very few were made/imported, and the more common one was an aluminum casting?
Last edited by AH64guy; 04/16/14.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
You'll see a lot of H&K 93's in central and S. America. Ecuador as I remember and Surinam if I recall but the latter had mostly FAL's. Honduras had them as well as I recall. You sure you don't mean 91? The 91 (G3) is ubiquitous in South and Central America, but I've never seen a 93 in military service anywhere. I know they had them in Ecuador because we took M193 ammo there for them to shoot, I remember doing the paperwork for it.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,244
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,244 |
TAK, I don't know about Ecuador, but they weren't uncommon in El Salvador...or Brazil...or Portugal, Malaysia, Thailand, Spain, etc. RH just isn't calling them by the right name.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,579
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,579 |
I am really not well informed on these I have a CEMTE and its sitting if anyone is interested I would not mind selling it I am not in it cheap but I am not in it too bad (I think)
Hank
Thank You Lord for another day,Help my Brother along the way
When you mature,you realize hospitals and schools are businesses,and the Beatles were geniuses
Live Like A Champion Today
NRA EndowmentLife Member,My Daughter is also a Life Member
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,600 |
TAK, I don't know about Ecuador, but they weren't uncommon in El Salvador...or Brazil...or Portugal, Malaysia, Thailand, Spain, etc. RH just isn't calling them by the right name. 25 countries used the 5.56 version known as the HK33 or HK53. I remember in the 1990's I had I guy in my reserve unit that was US Border Patrol an they carried a few 5.56 HK's.
Whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485 |
After sighting it in, accuracy with mil spec aperture sights was acceptable. A scope would likely cut the group size in half. A trigger job might cut it in half again, as the factory trigger felt like it was pushing ten pounds. Sight was set to the 200 yard aperture (the 100 yard sight has a V-notch, so offering less precision, I didn't use it), therefore the group being a bit high was correct. Ammo was British military surplus 7.62 NATO. Scopes and triggers don't make much difference at all off a bench. Unless you just can't see the front sight. It would or should not take off more than half an inch or so for a good shooter. Thats still over 3 inches. Thats about as accurate or less so than my AK at 100 with ball also. I don't consider that platform to be called accurate so to speak.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,312 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,312 Likes: 1 |
I agree the AK-103 I had would do that group with Tulammo.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,706 Likes: 17
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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I agree the AK-103 I had would do that group with Tulammo. The AKs Ive shot tended to have groups noticeably larger than this at 100 yards. Is yours a custom tuned AK?
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,448
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,448 |
A G3 clone with a good military barrel and the cocking tube adjusted to free float the barrel will shoot close to an inch at 100, maybe 1-1/2" with irons off a rest. Best way to check accuracy is to remove the forend and rest front of receiver on a rifle rest. There are ejection bumpers or weld on port shrouds which will tame the ejection, also the deeper the rollers lock, within spec, and using the right burning rate powder will slow down the ejection cycle a little. Even though the brass looks terrible (if you can find it 30 feet away) the cases can be resized four or five times. If you want a scope, the weld on rails are the way to go.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 749
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 749 |
TRH,
You got me checking the PTR web page, would you know who makes the barrels they use? Also I see they offer a 'HK profile' and a heavier 'bull' barrel, I don't think it would really make much difference accuracy wise...am I wrong?
Thanks
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,706 Likes: 17
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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TRH,
You got me checking the PTR web page, would you know who makes the barrels they use? Also I see they offer a 'HK profile' and a heavier 'bull' barrel, I don't think it would really make much difference accuracy wise...am I wrong?
Thanks Don't know the answer to any of those questions. Sorry.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485 |
I agree the AK-103 I had would do that group with Tulammo. The AKs Ive shot tended to have groups noticeably larger than this at 100 yards. Is yours a custom tuned AK? I've not shot a second hand AK, only new polytech, and thats what I actually own. I have heard some horror stories about parts guns, and used 2nd hand ones. Of course I"ve seen the same with M1 carbines, M1s and so on. Dad said his first carbine had a smoother bore than his shotgun....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,448
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,663
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,663 |
Surplus Hensoldt G3 Scopes and mounts can be had for around $500.00. That's a steal if you ask me. All kinds of much less expensive options out there for mounting a scope on the PTR-91. Like this one. Stop and think about that for a minute. If cheap is all you want, then you've found it. And I'm sure it's a decent mount; looks pretty solid. But for $500.00 you're getting a scope and mount that was designed for military service, and PROVEN in military service. For $500.00!!! How can you beat that? To get ANY scope even approaching the quality of the Hensoldt, you'll spend well over 500.00. Even a fixed Leupold is going to set you back well over $300, and you don't get the mount. The H&K claw mount is a very slick device, and worth the price. it comes off in less than a second, and goes on in about a second and will come very close to absolute zero when replacing (enough that if you miss at 500 yards, it's your fault; not the equiplment). The Hensoldt scope is built Ford Tough, and it has a bullet drop compensator for 7.62 NATO. Again, how can you beat that?
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,663
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,663 |
Has anybody ever tried the little brother, the V93 or C93's. Back in the late 70s I had a choice at the gun shop between the HK91 and the HK93. I went with the 91. Have any nations ever adopted the 93? I know plenty of them adopted the 91. I had a 93 back in the '80's. It was a very solid rifle, magazines are excellent; never once failed on me. But it was a heavy pig, so I sluffed it off for a Springfield Armory M1A receiver, GI Parts Kit, and an honest to goodness Leatherwood ART-II scope. I had much more fun with the M14. Then filled my 5.56 itch with an AR-180; excellent rifle.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,663
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,663 |
I agree the AK-103 I had would do that group with Tulammo. The AKs Ive shot tended to have groups noticeably larger than this at 100 yards. Is yours a custom tuned AK? My Izhmash 103 would shoot 2MOA all day long with Lapua ammo, 3MOA with Wolf, and 3.5-4 with Winchester. I was surprised at the Winchester; didn't see that coming.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,663
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,663 |
TRH,
You got me checking the PTR web page, would you know who makes the barrels they use? Also I see they offer a 'HK profile' and a heavier 'bull' barrel, I don't think it would really make much difference accuracy wise...am I wrong?
Thanks When they first set up, I know they were buying barrels from Thompson/Center, the makers of the Contender. My only complaint with the PTR's is how shallow the chamber fluting is; it's almost non-existent. Now I don't know, but I would be concerned if the rifle got REALLY dirty, it would start to pull case rims off. Again, this is wonder and speculation on my part; I don't know. I just know that the H&K 93 I've had, and the Sig STGw 57 I had both had very deep and pronounced chamber fluting that would all but trash the brass. Just don't know.
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