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Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by RoninPhx
I am not trying to pick things apart, but the other thing i noticed was the "blue" of the heads of some of the screws to me don't quite match the patina of the rest of the revolver. Now on the other hand, quite possible i am off base.
what intrigues me about this stuff is a early 44.40 i have that the barrel was cut down. The head of the colt collectors group in the state saw it and called it an "indian gun" in that indians often did that to early colts. I ain't good enough to know the truth of it. I should post a picture for comment.
That's a good catch. Those screws are Nitre blued and with the heads sticking out as far as they do, they should wear much faster than anything else around. Color Case is MUCH tougher than Niter bluing. So what does that mean?

They could be replaced screws. Why? Beat's the hell out of me. Not unreasonable that in the lifetime of a SAA that old that a screw or two would break or some other reason need to be changed (buggered up, etc.). But all 3, that's odd.

These old guns are the proverbial "enigma wrapped in a mystery". I've seen fully authenticated originals that have had weird anomalies like that. Where everyone agrees the gun is righteous, but not one person can come up with a solid reason why something is out of place.

The owner could have decided to take the gun apart at some point and completely trashed a screw. Or lost one, and then realized when he bought a replacement, the 3 wouldn't match; so bought a set of 3 replacements. Just no way to tell.

That's one thing I miss from Arkansas. A friend who deals in fine guns occasionally gets these mysteries, and it's all kinds of fun to try to unwrap the mystery.
Your post is all over the place and makes no sense. For instance, why would everybody agree the gun is "righteous" when it had obviously replaced screws? I don't know what a "righteous" SAA is, but evidently one with totally original parts, which is not what one with replacement screws is. That said, replacement screws do not kill the value of the type of gun that normally has them. ie a SAA with enough wear on it to tell it has replacement screws. True experts will replace lost screws with the same type of screws that the lost screws were. Aging a screw is a lot less of a process than a whole gun and lots of collectors replace non-numbered parts. So no way to tell what? That just sounds ignorant.
I guess I didn't make my point well.

It's righteous if the gun is not a fake, and actually is what it appears to be. The screws won't change that. The issue of the screws is just why are 3 screws different. When evaluating to determine if something really is what it's supposed to be, you look for inconsistencies; things out of place.

I didn't say anywhere that the screws changed the value, that wasn't my point. Just saying that 3 changed screws draws scrutiny when looking at the gun. Hell, we don't even know for certain that they are replaced; just speculating based on photos, which is pretty weak.

I'm just saying they're inconsistent. That cold me something, or it could just mean someone replaced the screws, that's all.
You made your point, it's just that your point made no sense because once again, you think you know a lot more than you know.

GB1

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Originally Posted by shrapnel
The case colors look good and could easily be original. Screws that have bluing on the frame wouldn't wear any more than the frame, as a holster wouldn't touch the screws anyway.

The overall condition of the gun appears excellent and regardless of barrel length, the numbers match and so does the condition. I like the gun for what it is, not what it could be.

I agree.

Without absolute proof of it being a test gun, it is a very nice early first generation gun that is easily worth what a first generation gun with that much finish would bring...


I agree to an extent and will give the nod to your greater experience. I will say though that the internet has been a game-changer in gun sales and this is very true in the sub category of antique firearms. There have always been guys who will take a chance on a gun to get verification. In almost every collector or antique dealer's collection you'll see a couple of "coulda' been a contenduh" type guns that the guy just can't get verified, probably with a couple more that he found out weren't. It would surprise me if you don't have a couple of these. heheh But besides that, the internet has broadened the accessibility to these guns to such an extent that I think there are a lot more guys who are just inexperienced enough to take a chance on these guns. Not that they don't know the technical details, but that they haven't added those "almost" and "coulda' been" guns yet. lol

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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
You made your point, it's just that your point made no sense because once again, you think you know a lot more than you know.

I don't see any reason for the hostility.

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Gungeek: "The one red flag is the rifling issue. 1- being nearly perfect. 2- If it's truly unique from anything else that Colt had at that time, that is suspect; but there can be a good reason.
The rifling should match other .38 revolvers they made at that time because it's not real logical for this one revolver to have a completely unique barrel from other .38 revolvers Colt's made. If they have .38 barrels/barrel-stock around, it makes sense they'd use that and not something unique (unless they were experimenting).

But I don't have a clue off the top of my head if Colt's made any other .38 revolvers that time. 1875 was the year they designed the cartridge, so they obviously had something they were working with, but I don't recall off the top of my head if anything was actually offered to the public that early (I wanna say they didn't have any .38's of any model back then, but I don't trust my memory). If there weren't any others, that really complicates authentication because you have really only have one good source for authentication...the other .38.

The obvious would be to reach out to the owner of the one known and authenticated to see if the barrel rifling matches, as well as everything else."

According to a well respected Colt SAA authority: "The rifling is of the early style, equal distant lands and grooves, but most of those early 38 barrels were left over percussion navies, turned and used on the model 1877 double action."

[u][/u][i][/i]


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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
You made your point, it's just that your point made no sense because once again, you think you know a lot more than you know.
Okay, if that makes you feel better...I don't know chit...you can just ignore everything if that makes you feel better.

Last edited by GunGeek; 05/05/14.
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That's a helluva piece regardless of whether you ever find out the story behind it!!!

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Regardless of what has been posted and who wants to argue with who, I like your Colt.
Best of luck on your continuing research and please keep us posted on your progress.
Thanks for posting and, especially all the pictures.

Ernie


George Washington - �Labour to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire,�conscience.�

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Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
You made your point, it's just that your point made no sense because once again, you think you know a lot more than you know.
Okay, if that makes you feel better...I don't know chit...you can just ignore everything if that makes you feel better.
Typically I ignore quite a bit of your drivel but it doesn't make me feel anything one way or the other. Just some clarification for you.

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Originally Posted by CraigC
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
You made your point, it's just that your point made no sense because once again, you think you know a lot more than you know.

I don't see any reason for the hostility.
I expect you don't. Your registration is 2013. Some good advice would be to tread lightly and not jump into [bleep] you don't know anything about. Thus far you come off as pretty knowledgeable about some handgun issues. You've agreed with me on some stuff, and that's a good start. On this, you summed it up when you said you didn't see. When you don't see, maybe it's best to watch until you do.

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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
I expect you don't. Your registration is 2013. Some good advice would be to tread lightly and not jump into [bleep] you don't know anything about. Thus far you come off as pretty knowledgeable about some handgun issues. You've agreed with me on some stuff, and that's a good start. On this, you summed it up when you said you didn't see. When you don't see, maybe it's best to watch until you do.

I didn't "jump into [bleep]" and my registration date is irrelevant. I really don't give a damn what history you guys have. My point, is that there is no reason to pollute THIS thread with whatever personal bullshit you guys have going on. It's juvenile to pollute every unrelated thread with your personal garbage. If you don't like people commenting on your little spat, don't do it or relegate it to PM's. Just like your comments to me. Call someone out for all to see and it has nowhere to go but downward.

I might've only registered HERE last year but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I know bullshit when I smell it.

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I know a little about a lot of things. I know a lot about very few things. I mention what little experience with fakes because I thought it was interesting. I know when I was shown fakes, good fakes that someone spent a good deal of time and money to create (and ruined otherwise very collectible guns); I found it interesting the lengths that otherwise talented gunsmiths would go to make a very dishonest buck. Ethan doesn't appreciate what I've shared, okay fine. He thinks I'm FOS; fine. Everyone can judge for themselves.

I still say that job one would be to get the gun authenticated if you can. There are some guns that are never fully authenticated because the collectors world become divided.

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Originally Posted by CraigC
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
I expect you don't. Your registration is 2013. Some good advice would be to tread lightly and not jump into [bleep] you don't know anything about. Thus far you come off as pretty knowledgeable about some handgun issues. You've agreed with me on some stuff, and that's a good start. On this, you summed it up when you said you didn't see. When you don't see, maybe it's best to watch until you do.

I didn't "jump into [bleep]" and my registration date is irrelevant. I really don't give a damn what history you guys have. My point, is that there is no reason to pollute THIS thread with whatever personal bullshit you guys have going on. It's juvenile to pollute every unrelated thread with your personal garbage. If you don't like people commenting on your little spat, don't do it or relegate it to PM's. Just like your comments to me. Call someone out for all to see and it has nowhere to go but downward.

I might've only registered HERE last year but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I know bullshit when I smell it.
Mind your own damn business and GFY.

Edited to say: I mean seriously, you come in here and are talking to guys who have been here forever when you've been here a year and start moralizing and telling everybody how to behave. Take that [bleep] to some metrosexual clothing site or something. Nobody here GAF.

Last edited by EthanEdwards; 05/06/14.
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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Mind your own damn business and GFY.

Like I said, petty and juvenile. If it's posted on the open forum for all to see, it's everybody's business. I'm sure the OP appreciates you running his thread into the gutter with your utter stupidity.

This place needs a friggin' enema.

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This revolver can be authenticated by the Colt archive department, correct?



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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I think the OP has a cool gun and I am enjoying the information and speculation that people are bringing to the table. I would not expect a 135 year old gun to have never been upgraded or worked upon, so piecing together the history is not an exact science.


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I don't have any insight to add except for the condition of the screws.

For whatever reason, the nitre blue on the old Colt screws seems to hold its color and gloss.

This New Police from 1905 has lost much of its finish, but the screw heads still maintain a glossy blue finish,.....much better than it appears in the pic.

[Linked Image]

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The OP said "no" to that.


"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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That's a nice piece Bristoe.

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Originally Posted by CraigC
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Mind your own damn business and GFY.

Like I said, petty and juvenile. If it's posted on the open forum for all to see, it's everybody's business. I'm sure the OP appreciates you running his thread into the gutter with your utter stupidity.

This place needs a friggin' enema.
If you don't like it, leave. You're talking about cluttering the place up but yet you've made two or three off-topic posts. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out...or do.

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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
I think the OP has a cool gun and I am enjoying the information and speculation that people are bringing to the table. I would not expect a 135 year old gun to have never been upgraded or worked upon, so piecing together the history is not an exact science.


I missed that.



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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