Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Trued Rem 700 vs Nesika, Defiance, BAT, Barnard?

Not all customs are created equal and the same goes for Rem 700's, I'll take a good custom for consistancy!

I've done a few customs on trued 700s, one on a Stiller Predator and have shot and been exposed to many other custom actioned rigs.

On this latest one, I put all the numbers on a spreadsheet for bringing a 700 up to custom action specs. That included side bolt release. PT&G bolt, having raceway reamed to accept said bolt, lug recesses, action face and threads trued, cutout for extended Wyatt box. When it was all said and done, the cost for the Remington came within $50 of the Predator. That made the Predator an easy choice for me.

I have been extremely pleased with the Predator. Once I got the issues with Magazine spring sorted out, it feeds and functions as well as any Remington I have had and has been extremely accurate with both barrels I have had fitted.

Levels of blueprinting a 700 seem to have as many variations as there are 'smiths. I wanted whichever action I chose to have the same specs as a custom. To get the 700 there meant either sleeving the bolt or going with an oversized bolt and reaming the 700 to fit and having a side bolt release installed. The cost difference between sleeving or going with the PT&G bolt was negligible. If you were willing to go with factory 700 bolt clearances and the factory bolt release, which I have done before, you could spend a good bit less than a custom and still have a very good shooting rig. I suspect that those that say a blueprinted 700 is much less expensive than custom take that route.

Anyway, my Stiller shoots good and I have no regrets. Here's a couple of groups I shot friday at 400 and 500 meters respectively. The 400m group measured .242 MOA and the 500m group measured .309 MOA. I know, I know, they're only three shots, but I was running low on ammo and wanted to spread it out over the different distances. I never missed a plate from 300 to 600m which was as far as I was shooting that day. Not saying a 700 wouldn't have done the same, but I ain't gonna flip my Stiller for a blueprinted 700 just to find out.

John

400m, 8" plate, .242 MOA



500m, 8" plate, .309 MOA

About impossible to recover all your costs for action truing and accuracy work on a Rem 700 action. Custom action or high-end production will hold value and be built right to begin with.

Not really much needs be done to make a Rem 700 shoot with precision. Truing? Mostly unnecessary. A trigger job and a minimum oal chamber will deliver the sub .5 five round groups, at least in .308win family ctgs.

A Shilen or Hart rebarrel is another matter. Those guys will accurize your action and number your barrel to match the receiver. One of their jobs has tangible and verifiable value. Somebody else installing their barrel and doing the "work" not so much...

Well, I guess I should have clarified my definition of "truing" and that would be, truing the action face, bolt face, lug seats, lapping in the lugs and cutting the threads to accept the new barrel. If someone is going to replace the entire bolt with a PTG bolt and install a side bolt release, well I didn't realize we were talking about an entire action rebuild.

If the 700 isn't brought up to the same specs as a custom is it a fair comparison?

John

The OP asked if a trued up 700 would shoot as well as one of the named customs. IMO, a trued up 700 (what I described as trued up anyway) will in a hunting rifle platform.

with bat and the defance deviant you get machined in lug and scope base. I think YES the extra stiffness you get with a machined in rail makes the action more accurate. look at the legendary out of the box accurate rifles, remington 788 and tikka come to mind. both are port style closed top actions. I will never build a custom again on a remington its not very smart or cost effective. besides define "trued or blueprinted" remington. in my book that could mean a jacked up monkeyed with action.

Let's talk about accuracy for a second. Think back 10-15 years about all the "accuracy" gunsmiths who gave you a 1/2 3 shot group guarantee using a 700 "blueprinted" action. Were these guys replacing the bolts on these rifles ? I don't think so and maybe a few were installing bolt bushings at most. Now, most of these same accuracy smiths are using custom actions. Any of them offering a better accuracy guarantee ?

I have 'Dedicated Hunter Status' which allows me to own quite a few rifles. We do however have to license additional barrels, and are not allowed to headspace them myself (have to be done by a registered gunsmith)

Pieter

It is pretty expensive to get one of the custom actions to South-Africa but not impossible. The thing is, if I am going to put in a lot of money in a build like this I would like to have at least a .3" or .2" gun. I understand that hunting accuracy is a total different story by I do like to punch paper as well and enjoy seeing a single hole just changing shape slightly as more bullets travel through it
I think basically I would just like to go in the right direction in the first place. The rifle would most likely be around 10 1/2 pounds (light varmint class) with a 22" barrel.
Does the extra thickness in the custom action's sleeve help to get that extra bit of accuracy out of it? I also think a custom would look a lot nicer, but apart from appearance and feel, do I gain a lot more accuracy from it?

Thanks for the great info guys, I really appreciate it!

Pieter

Sturgeon is one you might consider as we'll- another remy clone.

In the end it really depends what your build is for - bench, hunting, varmint?

Most hunting application probably don't require a custom action to get what you need. .. But this probably comes down to what you want.

With a 6.5-06 or 6.5-284 your barrel life is going to be in the 800-1,000 area, so given you can't do a swap barrel ? Depending on how much you shoot this one it might be worth getting a second barrel, and having the smith hold onto it so he can swap it out for you later.

Good barrels, and actions tend to have a long waiting list, so these are things to consider, Mc stocks do as well.

You will not be able to find a Surgeon action very easily these days, as Surgeon has stopped sellings actions to the public. You might find someone selling one, but you will be paying a premium!!!

Look hard at Defiance Machine - probably one of the quickest to get in custom specs of your choice.

BAT Machine is at 1 year from the time you order until its ready - awesome actions but a very long wait!!!

I have owned a number of custom actions as well as trued Remmys. You will be hard pressed to take advantage of the premium of a custom action in a hunting rifle. The custom action is to men akin to women wearing expensive heels - mostly glitter and sparkle. From a function perspective, you can true up a remmy for far less than a custom action. When you start adding in ptg bolts, fluting, side bolt releases and 8-40 base screws, all you are adding are fluff, not function. The costs between the two will be more similar with those items considered, but you will have a hard time convincing me of the accuracy benefits a side bolt release creates.

Now, I will still generally choose a custom action because those items do hold some value to me. I do also like the tolerances of a custom, or the smoothness of the bolt, or perhaps the type of extractor or ejector. Personal preferences that mean little to the potential of the action.

With that said, you will find a lot of .2"-.3" guns, but few .2"-.3" shooters and even fewer when you want your gun to do that "all day long" rather than the occasional good group.

If you want a custom, get one. If you buy something else instead, you will always wonder how the custom action would have served you, and you will likely not be content. Been down that road a few times too.

You reckon? We may be not to different in our opinion, but to make a Remington close to a custom, you will need to do the things that you think are fluff. Most "hunters" can kill anything with a Mossberg or Savage. My point is that a Remington can be made equal to a custom, but in doing it involves more than squaring the face of the receiver and lapping the lugs.

I completely agree, but the argument is often made to compare the expense of building up a remmy to that of a custom, and since the resulting price is so similar, a custom makes sense. If all those extras have value to you, this may be true, but many of the extra things do little to enhance the accuracy of the remmy action- that can generally be had for quite a bit less than the custom action will run.

Like you have stated though, a trued remmy is still a remmy when it comes time to sell it. A custom will retain more value

Ordered another BAT just tonight, no BS = 1 year wait!!!

I am a rifle shooter, and my gunsmith of the last 20 plus years is a rifle builder. I have had him build me rifles with trued remington 40X and 700 actions. Trued Winchester pre 64, Nesika and Borden actions. I can tell you that my $4,000 Borden bench gun gets out shot readily by a Remington built on a 40X action. It has a very nice Hart barrel on it, which I think is more important. The bench guys, who are all fanatics have switched from one action, barrel, stock to another based on what the last tournament was won with. The last time I looked at the used gun selection at a used benchrest place up in New York, there were a whole lot of Kelby Panda action guns. Everyone switched to BAT, they said. Tomorrow, they may all be shooting Farleys. If you look at 6MMBR's web pages, and read all the articles they run the gamut.

I would buy a heavy barreled Remington 700 in your caliber of choice. Shoot it! I've been told that most of them are almost good enough to shoot in competition. You get a good one, have the gunsmith of your choice clean it up. Do a bedding job and get a nice trigger. Drop it in a nicer stock if you want one. If the gun is poop, you have the action and bottom metal to start your custom job...I would spend money on a barrel before I would on a custom action. That's what every gunsmith I've ever dealt with has said. We like Hart, Bartlein, and Krieger barrels right now. Tomorrow, if someone wins big with a Top Flite barrel, everyone will want one. That's my 2 cents.

I was watching some of the videos posted by Gunwerks. One involves setting up a factory rifle. They chose a heavy barreled Remington which they bedded and installed a trigger. I don't believe they recut the crown. Then made some loads and went out and shot it. The guy commented how well it shot. Actually it worked just the same as their handbuilt rifles that cost four and five times as much.
Another guy I know builds rifles that are regularly used for competing long-distance matches on the East Coast. He told me that he can't see much difference between Remington's that are "blueprinted" and those that are not Same for custom actions. It just makes the guys feel better.
I bought a custom action and then spent between $300 and $400 to buy a trigger, magazine box, follower, spring, pins, and bottom metal. You can pick up a used 700 and for another 250 bucks it's ready to go.

One of the Brunos, Lester IIRC, said he held a BR world record for a time shot with a 700 that had the lugs lapped and action face squared. Me? Well I'm not lucky enough to get an inexpensive shooter like that, so I like to remove as many variables as possible.

John

I got in contact with a machinist yesterday who makes a Rem 700 and a Barnard clone. He guaranteed me that if I order an action and barrel from him (he does cut rifling) and let him assemble it I would get a .25" at 100m rifle. It sounds pretty promising. I have read of a few guys getting 1/2" groups at 200m with his actions and barrels. The action and barrel would cost me around $2200 assembled.

This is a very good price for around here and looks like the way to go.

I really did not know of this guy and his actions looks really nice. Guess the 700 clone would be the smarter option regarding stocks that is available on the market. Somehow I need to figure out how to get a McM stock to South-Africa

I think as quite a few of you guys mentioned, the custom action might have more resale value in the end and is going to look nicer

Thanks for the info, it help a lot.

Pieter