Home Forums Fishing Freshwater braided lines and ultra light equipment

I was screwing around last month and setting up a rod for a couple kids that are friends with my son. They don't have fishing gear and don't actually go fishing unless with me.

I decided that I might have less trouble with the amount of help they need if I used braided line.

This will pull free, and straighten the little hooks if they tangle, or just break off and pull in whatever they are snagged on. I use little Mitchell 308 reels and 5.5ft ugly stick rods for these loaner setup for the kids.

Those old mitchell reels were never designed for braided line but they hold a ton and work okay for them, on the small fish we target with ultra light gear.

Now........ I caught a SM bass on one of these rods about 5 lbs that blew my mind with the battle that took place with a light rod and a powerful fish. The hooks came out when that fish got to shore so I did not land it, but the equipment was probably not a factor. Just the way it was hooked.

The really was a great fishing experience. I have a newer Shimano Stradic 1000FJ that is a higher end reel. It's mounted on an older St Croix 5.5' ultra light rod. I'm absolutely going to load that with 100 yards of 15lb braid now. The line is no longer the weak link in ultralight fishing. Take that worry out of the mix and you can really have a great battle with a good fish on light gear.

The real problem is hook setting power with ultra light gear. However using a live bait with a circle hook on the meaty fleshy mouth of channel cats is no problem.

Probably not as easy to get a good hook set with a pike or walleye. Bass fall someplace in the middle. I've lost plenty of bass with heavy equipment having them shake the hooks loose. Probably more small mouths then largemouths, but the SM bass are out of the water so much the line goes slack quite often letting the hooks fly!

Braid dramatically increases hook-setting power, as there is almost no line stretch to overcome. Even in clear water, braid with a 4-5ft flouro leader gets it done. Braid's only downside that I can think of is the inability to "pluck" crankbaits loose that are lightly snagged like mono affords.

JJHack, I've used braided line on a light rig almost like you're describing for smallies in rivers. Works great and is a load of fun.


I use braided on everything anymore. It seems to last longer and doesn't get brittle and weak. Nice to leave those loaners set up for a few seasons and not have to worry about the line being kinked or badly degraded.

Ella

There is no question that braid sets hooks better, but the UL rod has no power to do it.

I wonder if measured somehow. Just exactly how much the braided line makes up for with lack of spine in an UL rod?

Using this UL rod and reel with the amount of line that gets ripped off the spool with the drag screaming almost mimics inshore fishing in the gulf for saltwater fish. Saltwater fish in general that are equal in weight to a freshwater fish are about 5 times the fight of a freshwater fish. However, you can almost get that saltwater fish fight, with a small mouth bass using an UL setup.

Do y'all fill the whole reel with braided or start with mono?

I fill the whole thing.

For me, the easy way to do things is best..... In this situation, I fill the whole spool. With this, I can replace a new empty spool on the reel and fill it from an old spool putting the unused line back on top and the worn line from the top on the core or bottom of the new spool.

Just reeling in the line from one spool to another. Of course this assumes a guy has a spare spool. I fond this a great way of using all the line from the core to the top and getting is used equally.

That's a clever approach.

The circle hook is on the right track. Keep them SHARP! With circle hooks, you don't need to set the hook, just tighten the line and you will have them. Hard to break the old habit. Works wonderful on crappies with their paper mouths. hook sets in pike and walleye are not an issue - they usually inhale the bait!

I share your opinion of the smallmouth as the fightin-est and biten-est fish in fresh water.

If you're dedicated to fishing smallmouth with an ultralight rod, the big ones are gonna frustrate you, unless you make alterations to your tackle.

Problem is, the standard treble on a smallie sized lure has a gap that *fits* the mouth of the small to medium fish, i.e., the hook clears the hard cartilage forming the "lips" of the fish, and sets in the softer cartilage surrounding that area.

When you get the occasional big one, the hard cartilage area is wider, and the smaller hook is unlikely to be driven through with ultralight tackle. You'll drive the hook into the skin covering the cartilage, and will have the fish on for awhile, but it's likely to come off during a jump.

To stop that from happening, replace the OE trebles with trebles with a wider gap, at least 1/4" to 3/8". That gives you a better chance of clearing the cartilage with the point of the hook, and doesn't appear to deter the bite. I use the red colored hooks, but can't claim any scientific reason.

The bait for a SM can be huge. They will attack near equal sized fish.

I caught a 6-7" SM on a panther martin spinner, got it to shore only to have a 3 lb ish SM inhale that first fish and run my drag across the pond. He eventually let that smaller bass go and I just reeled that one back in again.

SM bass when hungry will eat giant baits. I feed the one in our aquarium which is about 5" long large goldfish. They are about 1/2 his length. He engulfs them and all we see it orange and silver glitter falling to the bottom of the tank!

Smallies are great. JJhack, one cheap way to stiffen the rod for hook set is to get a longer ultralight and saw it one section shorter. Ask me how I figured that one out. Works better than you might expect for harder mouthed fish.


Ella

I tried braided line on my 6-10# steelhead rod. Didnt like it at all. To many rock ledges where i fish and it proved to be not very abrasion resistant.. Back to mono for me. Izor Line. Just my limited experience last winter..

What braided line? Have you ever tried to cut Power Pro with the little nippers you cut mono with?

Lots of situations have me running braid with a 6' mono leader.

I have seen quite a number of guys struggle connecting mono to braid.

Tying Braid knots seem to give folks fits. Many still struggle tying braid to lures snap swivels and hooks. Braided lines seem to slip and come undone under pressure.

I'll admit I struggled with this on my first few outings too. Learning a few new knots and discipling myself to use them solved that problem.

Albright knot is your friend

I use a palomar knot or a double palomar if the braid is super slippery. I've never had a problem with knot failure with those two.

I like braid. Have it on all my casting setups and many of my spinning rods. I still have mono on my ultralight, but am considering setting up my spare spool with 6# braid just to see.

I run fluorocarbon or mono leaders up to 10' long - mostly to stretch out the length of time to replace the leader. I retie when they get down to 3' or less. I use a uni-uni knot with seven turns in the braid and five turns in the fluoro/mono. Have never had one pull loose.

+ 1

The uni knot is my choice for connecting braid to mono.

Rocky,

I tried 4 and 6 lb braid in my UL reel. The Shimano Stradic 1000FA

They would whip and wrap around the rod tip too much, also the wind seemed to play havoc on the limp thin line getting loops in it.

Switching to 10lb line stopped this 90%, switching to 15lb line was a dream on this reel not a single problem. Still the same size as 4-6lb mono line, but with enough mass to stop the wind knots and tip wrapping.

I still have 4 lb fireline on an Okuma UL reel that is pretty good, but gets those annoying tip wrapped knots too frequenly for my enjoyment.

Thanks for that tip, my friend. Makes sense. 6# braid is the diameter of 2# mono, but is a lot limper.

Another vote for the uni-knot. Best if you get a little spit on it when you pull it tight. I tend to use it for everything where it makes sense.

Power Pro is the brand I used. Repeated drift's through rock/rocky ledges will wear on it. Even used with a bobber and jig sea run rainbows hooked will burn line down or up a river across these ledges. Didn't work for me and where I winter fish. Could easily be the ticket somewhere else.

Been running 15 braid on a Pflueger 8225 MGX, always a Palomar, no leader. Been pretty satisfied overall, almost as happy with it as the 6# P-line CX Flouro, the CX is Flawless in no knots, etc. - low memory, seems as strong as 8-10, and no stretch for good hook sets.

I do wonder if I have my spool a tad too full of braid and that is causing issues with the occasional wind knot. I hate the hassle of undoing them, as I never have it with CX.

I have some 10 braid I may try - but any thinner, afraid it will dig into the spool, etc. and cause problems.

Braid has it's place but ...

There are situations where mono is vastly superior.

This tiny little stadic 1000FJ with a 5.5' st croix rod. Tiny little gear, it took fully 10 minutes to get this smallmouth out of the water. My drag is set to 3 lbs at 10 feet with a full spool.

Caught it on a tiny orange rapala. Using yellow power pro 15lb line. This was an amazing battle with this really miniature gear how fun! My son took video with his phone. This bass came completely out of the water 3 times.

Had I used my more typical gear the fight would not have been anything like this. Ultralight gear is like the meth of fishing gear for me. Addictive to say the least!

It's a ton of fun, but playin' 'em that long can kill fish, if you plan to release them.

COOL! Many thanks for that!

Jim, nowadays I use a 5.5 foot rod and a Shimano 750 ( a bit smaller than your 1000) loaded with #10 Fireline for everything.

Prior�I had been using Shimano 500 ( smaller yet..) on a 4 ft. 9 inch rod�heres a couple catches made with it�

#20 pike�




#4 Smallmouth�



5.5


Ingwewife with #16 pike on the 5.5/750 combo..




I actually find it takes not much longer to land them on UL tackle than on conventional tackle.

Maybe I can horse them in a bit more then I do. I still have mono phobia, assuming that my 4lb test mono is going to break every second I'm hooked up. Now with the little fine diameter braids I can still use 4 pound size, but 15lb strength.

The weak link is now the St Croix Premier and Triumph rods. I feel a lot better using my 5.5' uglystick Ultra light rod, that is not gonna break very easily no matter how stupid I get.

Those are amazing pike on a UL rod and reel.

I see some of y'all discussing 4# and 6# braided line. I don't run line that light but if I did I wouldn't bother with braided...it just doesn't seem necessary at that point. YMMV

Jim, you can indeed put the pressure to them on the braided line. Ive been using Shimano rods and am happy with them. Yes, Ive broken a few, but very few, and I always keep a spare�.


Headed up to AB in August for another Mega-pike trip!

I would love to go with you, but I'll be stuck in Africa hunting with clients until Labor Day.

"stuck" in Africa�


Sucks to be you!!


But honest, you've been around so you know Im not yanking your chain, we have a nice place we go where you can expect to boat over 100 pike per day. They go everywhere from 5 pounds up, but of course as you go up, the numbers are fewer. Still 100 five pounders on UL tackle in a day will keep you on your toes! Its a good time!

These are the little guys�



The medium guys�




You've seen the large ones�.


A little better view of the tackle, this is the Shimano 550/4'9" combo..

I really like Smally fishing with UL tackle. However I tend to favor 7 foot rods, hell I have one 9 foot UL rod that is an absolute ball to hook up a 12 pound channel cat on

I fish for smallmouths a ton. Everything from fly rods to heavy baitcasting. No matter the rod and reel combo, if I were using 15 pound braid, I'd crank the drag more than 3 pounds at 10 feet.

FYI

I caught this one on an 6 ft. UL spinner with 6 pound mono. Grip em and rip em.

With a peak hold scale connect to the line and the drag adjusted to 3 pounds with this little st croix rod it's near the breaking point.

Not sure how many guys realize what 10 pounds of drag is like? I e caught a 100 bull and lemon sharks on 15 pound mono with spinning gear using 10lbs if drag. Measured at 50 yards. Of course it get lighter the smaller the spool or as more line goes out.

I had a tarpon snap my billy Barroo rod at the boat with 15 lbs of drag. that same rod landed dozens of big sharks. Drag setting is an interesting topic. Most, maybe near all guys grab the line ahead of the reel and puil out a stretch to see what it feels like.

I scale set all mine. Hey that's just me.

Forgive me if I'm mis-thinking this, but from what I know of leverage, the effective drag ought to INCREASE as the spool empties. That's because the moment arm gets shorter as the line level gets closer to the spool. The fish is pulling on a shorter lever, thus requiring more effort to pull line out.

It hardly ever matters in freshwater except with fly reels (due to the thickness of the line) and only then with fish that make long runs. But a big fish making a long run is exactly the time you want your drag set right to start with - and that means setting it a bit light with a full spool.

Jim, I never measure mine, but I assure you its wayyyyyy less than the breaking strength of the line. Using this braided line on a lift UL rod, the rod will break a long time before the line does�.

True but in a practical sense, IMHO, it has very little effect on a reel with a silky smooth drag. Increasing or decreasing the angle of the rod will have as much as effect on drag as the spool diameter.

I don't ever recall having to back off the drag when a fish was spooling the reel.

(obligatory fish story inserted here) I hooked a King in the Anchor River that spooled my System II with 125 yards + of backing on it. It had run down the river, out of sight, and around a bend. I had to break the leader when I got down to just a few wraps left or I would have lost the entire fly line. It was a big strong fishy.

Rocky, this is exactly right, and was very applicable in the old days of cork and asbestos drag materials. Once the new space age stuff-i.e. teflon came of age it made a huge difference. It isn't affected nearly as bad as the old stuff, indeed its hardly noticeable, and it also has a slower 'starting speed'�


And as you alluded to, it makes very little difference with most freshwater species. In salt water however, it is a major consideration.Fish in the wide open salt use speed and distance to protect themselves, freshwater fish most often use cover.

No comparison fresh to salt a 30" mackerel is 10xthe fight of and equal pike

A medium barracuda will smoke about any freshwater fish with little effort.

Spool size, I mistyped. It's correct as stated the drag goes up. That's exactly why I set 3lbs at ten feet, with a 30-40 yard cast getting hit hard would have a much higher drag setting.

Also why I set then for sharks at 50 yards. That's about where the bait is from the boat. Palming your spool is one of the best ways to learn additional pressure. Set lighter then needed and palm your spool

I suppose controlling the pressure with the angle of the rod works good too. However fish around the boat often require the rod to be half way into the water so the line does not run on the bottom of the hull.

Drag setting is a great topic here. Lots to learn from many different experiences.

Typing on an iPhone and multitasking is not my strong suit!

On the drag setting getting harder as more line runs out�as mentioned its not the problem it used to be, and try convincing 99% of all fisherman that as the line runs out they need to loosen and not tighten their drags�.

Wish I had a nickel for every time I heard " I just couldn't stop him! Didn't matter how hard I screwed the drag down! He broke the line�."


And Jim you are right, a #10 pike doesn't hold a candle to a #10 mackerel or the like. No comparison�.A pike may run 10 yards on a rare day. A Mackerel isn't even up to speed at ten yards!

My first flats trip to Florida changed my life and educated me beyond my wildest expectations. Fishing with a top notch guide was a brilliant value!

I can only hope folks hunting with me In Africa might feel the same about their experience.

My first 40" barracuda blew my mind! Then the permit and cobia wow. I was the one hooked! After blacktip or spinner sharks on 15lb spinning gear and Florida began sucking all available money from my account!

Had a friend going to the Bahamas that wanted to catch a 'cuda cause he had seen them before and couldn't get them to strike. I told him to put on a surge lure, drag it in front of one and then try your damnedest to move it so fast he can't possibly catch it�..

I have a small reel, an accurate twinspin #6

It's quite small but built like a tank. I'm not convinced it's Stella quality yet. No drag clicker, not as sexy as hearing the clicks screaming. And no automatic bail close. I close the bail by hand anyway so I'm okay with this. And no ability to reel reverse. That's only a rare to very rare need for me but the Stella does all three of these.

The drag can go to 15 lbs. which is a massive amount of drag for such a tiny reel. It's not ultra light by spec, but it's only 10oz weight. All machined aluminum. It's a great looking ultra smooth and exceptionally well made machine.

I have an accurate twinspin 12 as well which I use for sturgeon. That's also built like a tank. I managed to get that one from a writer doing a review on it. So the price was right!

Still don't think there is a better value then the shimano stradic or sustain in the spinning reel market.

I like the Stradics a bunch too, but they don't make one small enough for me!

I think 1000 is the lower limit.

Clarus 5 and 5'6" are two of my fave, b/c they have some backbone...those UL rods feel stiffer than most...

Never caught a Smallie, but they sure look like fun, pretty fish. Down here they call Pickerel "Jackfish", put up a good fight, not caught often, usually on H&H spinners on Caddo lake.

You have Chain Pickerel down there I presume. Used to catch them when I lived in the south. Looked like little pike ( with black instead of white spots) and acted more like their big cousins the musky...

Usually the tendency is for someone to try and stop a run by tightening the drag. Many times I had to coach someone on my boat to not mess with the drag when a fish was peeling line. "Keep the rod bent, don't mess with the drag, and don't worry about how much line the fish is taking."

With that said, I have a tendency, at times ... depending, to loosen the drag when a big fish nears the boat or shore. When a fish starts thrashing is when break offs become a concern.

On the issue of loosening the drag when a big fish runs deep into the spool I think it's a moot point if you have a silky smooth drag that's properly set to begin with. It's also a non-issue if the reel you're using has enough "working capacity" of line that's appropriate to the fish you're after.

-------------------

A very good way to judge if a reel has a silky smooth drag, no matter the type, is to ...

Take the reel off the rod, strip a bit a line out, adjust the drag to where you can lift the reel off the floor by holding the line (it takes a bit of finagling), and if the drag starts without hesitation, and if the reel falls smoothly to the floor ... it's good to go. If not it's time for a new set of drag washers or a cleaning or rebuild.

There's one other thing that can affect drag and that's the rod guides. No matter what material the guides are made of they can become "sticky" with weed debris and dirt. At the beginning of every fishing season I'd clean my rods with Simple Green, check the guides for nicks or cracks, and lube the guides with a silicone based treatment. I used automotive vinyl protectant like Turtle Wax Formula 2000. It does make a difference.

I'm so anal about guides that in the olden days I'd take a Dremel tool with a felt wheel and rouge to buff the stainless guides on my saltwater rods. With roller, ceramic, or titanium coated guides it's not needed.

Blah, blah, blah. I feel like I'm entering DIYguy territory.

If the fish is big and strong, you can hear the line ripping through the guides.

Yeah they make a difference if they are worn from braided line cutting in.

Noise is expected but ...

If your braided line is wearing the guides then you have the wrong guides but you probably don't but it depends on what type of guide you have. Do the fingernail test. If you can feel any roughness, chips or splits, by using your fingernails to feel the guides (it's better than looking) then you have a problem.

I need to correct and add one other thing.

Most of the fishing I've done has been with mono (my first choice) and cleaning, polishing, and lubing guides when using mono is when it makes a big difference.

Super lines and braids are so abrasive (depending on the coating) that any foreign material is essentially wiped away.

This thread had me thinking so I checked my trolling rods today.

Rods with 30 pound braid and 10 pound fluorocarbon leaders were set at 6 and 7 pounds at 10 feet

Rods with 8 pound mono were 4 and 6

Rods with 6 pound mono were 2.5 to 3.5.

Used to be the common feeling that 30% drag based on line strength

Now I think it's more like 30% based on rod strength when using braid!

The rod is more likely the weak link!

True dat!


Or in my case the loose nut on the reel handle�.

When I'm Light-Lining,I'm Long-Rodding,for the added leverage,control and casting distance. Noodle Rods can do nice thangs and I'm typically fishing much lighter rod weights,than everyone else.

That being said,the LAST [bleep] thing I'd do,is stoke a Noodle with fine braid. Cain't think of a rod/reel,in which I gun anything lighter than 20# braided mainline,though I'll of course Light-Line the leader.

20# here.



Though that is more of a Niche Pursuit rod,as opposed to a Utility Grinder. Daily Grinder's are of the 9'6" 4-8# UL variety and I reckon I don't catch much more than a thousand or so Salmonids a year on 'em. 30# PP is their bread and butter,with a mono leader slated to suit the moment.

Enjoyed the Drag Chronicles and the Yardstick Rod yarns. Purty tough to come in second in a boat,so that really isn't much of an evaluation of equipment,in a Finesse Fishery critique.

If I'm driving a 6' rod,it's a stand up in one of my boats and it's laden with 100# braid.

Hint.(grin)

After getting back from muskie fishing last night I thought of this thread and played around some more.

Muskie rods are loaded with straight braid and the drags are set at 4-6 pounds.

Spinning rods with 8 pound mono (used exclusively for smallies) were set at 2-3.

Conventionals with either braid or mono were between 3 and 5.

Never actually thought much about drag other than to stop em or pop em.

Boxer: your noodle rod set ups are a niche thing, and well thought out for the prey at hand, and their propensity to try and avoid capture.
My little 5.5 footers and #10 braid get used on small trout in creeks that can't travel far, and big pike in big water that don't want to travel far. Works for both.

Just forsook my fave Fireline to thread up with some PP for this summer's pike.

It better work better than H335�..

I tried power pro braid on my 4'6" ul a few years ago for crappie. I liked the sensitivity but I ripped their lips and lost more fish than usuall. I use nanofil with a 6 - 8 foot mono leader and I know the mono leader helps with fish lose. But I only use this line set up on a medium light walleye type jigging rod to bass fish deep with jigging spoons and grubs/small jigs. Works like a charm. I tie the mono to the nanofil with a modified sugeons knot.

You guy have got me thinking of trying something else. I have a small el cheapo 7' Shakespeare fly rod that I changed the first two guides on and replaced with microwave guides. I was gonna put a tennesse handle on it andI use it as a spin/fly rod. With the tennesse handle and reel attachment rings you can put the reel anywhere on the handle you want it, rear for fly reel and front for spinning. Since the tip is very soft and the action is fairly parabolic I may try superline on it. Its a awesome rod for suspending a tiny jig under a float and casts really light lures really well but lacks the power to get a good hook set at the when fishing a slip bobber deep. I bet that super line would be the ticket for that UL set up. I'm gonna try it.

Sounds like a fun plan�.I never thought of crappie ( haven't fished them since the advent of braided..) but the complete lack of stretch would rip lipids..easily.
Its precisely why I like it for pike, it enables me to set a 3/0 hook with ultralight tackle.

Lipids, laugh

Actually�thats a typo�.

The power pro 4lb diameter is 10# test I believe, and the 6lb diameter is 15lb test.

Use the diameter to decide what you need on your reel.

I only use 40 yards at most of braid, with backing. I also like uni knots, but you have to be careful thing them with light fluoro.

I used it when it first came out and ground it was too limp, I like a tiny bit of memory so my spinners don't catch the line as Im casting�.the Fireline has provided that. Im trying the #10 Power Pro, as Im sure it will be great on pike because of the huge lures and steel leaders, but I will have to try it on the trout streams too�.

Some of the best slang words and such come by way of mistake. Rip them lipids sounds pretty good especially with a southern accent. Of course you would have to drop the th and say it like rip em lipids.

Rippin' lippids on pigs?







That kinda goes together.