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1 Timothy 1

New King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the commandment of God our Savior and the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope,

2 To Timothy, a true son in the faith:

Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
No Other Doctrine

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia�remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust

What??? 21 views and no comments??

Where's Ringman??

For all of us.

The law was given to the Children of Israel after God delivered them from the Egyptians. It was given at Mt Sinai as a response to Exodus 19:8

When you read it in English it just says that we will do whatever the Lord says to do. When you read it in Hebrew you can see that it was prideful boasting by the people, telling Moses that they were well able to do whatever the Lord commands them to do.

The law was not given so that man could live holy. It was given to show man that he could not live holy. To prove to man that he needed a savior.

Jesus came and fulfilled the law. A man who never broke even one law. He could do this because he was not born of the sin nature.

The covenant of law is gone for the believer. Those born again live under the new covenant of grace. We are one with Jesus and are righteous by faith in his righteousness. We are righteous because Jesus is righteous. Keeping the law has never been possible for anyone except Jesus and we are to only judge our relationship with God based on his grace toward us because of Jesus.

Those who live by the law , live under the curse. Christians are to live by grace , not law. We are not under the same covenant as was given by Moses.

Senior Clark, I think you are right on.

Thank you sir. Grace is a subject I love to discuss. I can give plenty of scripture references for anyone who wants to discuss farther or has any questions. I have just returned from vacation and gave a quick summery last night.

The lack of understanding grace and the different covenants have confused many Christians. Many still try to live under the law and apply grace to their constant breaking of the law. Those who do so live under constant condemnation and will do very little for God.

Grace is not a license to sin but a way to be free from the bondage of sin. When we understand God's love for us and who we are under the new covenant of Grace, we lose desire to sin. If I see myself as an old sinner saved by grace, I will just act like an old sinner. On the other hand, if I see myself as an adopted child of the Most High God who loves me so much that he suffered and died for me, as my old personage being dead but now a new creation, created in the image of Christ, it changes my desires from within.

Is obeying the New Testament commands written by apostle Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit trying to live under the law instead of grace?

What commands are you speaking of?

Anytime you base your relationship with God on your obedience, then you are not under grace, at least in your own thinking.

Are you implying that Paul lived under the law?

1 Corinthians 9:20


NET� 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew to gain the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law) 1 to gain those under the law.

I asked a question. There was no implication. Let's go with a little more of the Same Passage you posted and include verse 21. Apostle Paul was "under the law of Christ." In another Scripture he writes, "Follow me, I follow Christ."

"To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ,"

So what do you think the Law of Christ is? The Law of Christ is grace. Paul preached extensively about not judging yourself or others based on the law of Moses. Paul preached a message of grace.

Maybe the one He commanded three times. Does that makes it Unanimous?

John 13:34-35

34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
NIV

John 15:12

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
KJV

John 15:17

17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
KJV

How 'bout what Apostle Paul wrote, "the things I write are the Lord's commands."? He wrote about half the New Testament. You guys go into attack mode as soon as you discover some one loves the Lord enough to actually obey the New Testament.

One thing I can say for you, Rich, is that you certainly are full of your false pride. You figure it out.

Like I said, you go into attack mode. In addition to being full of false pride I excel at ignorance. I have no idea what you want me to figure out. Do you mind enlightening me?

I would like to say to you that I am very sorry that our last conversation ended badly. I do not agree with you but I should have treated you much more civil.

What's your stance on grace? You seem to base your relationship and judge others on their obeying the commandments. Are you talking about the law? I really would like to discuss this civilly.

What I want you to see is that obedience isn't even the issue. Born again Christians don't want to sin. The very nature of being born again is to have the sinful nature changed to one that wants to obey and please God.

However as long as our focus is on ourselves, and how well we can do, it is not on Jesus and what he has already done. As long as the focus is on ourselves, we are fighting sin in the fleshly realm where we cannot win. On the other hand, if our focus is on the Lord and what he has already done, we have already won.

The thing is though that no one ever could obey well enough. God's standard is perfection. Jesus obeyed perfectly, fulfilling the law. Our obedience is the obedience to accept Jesus's sacrifice for us. I can't ever be good enough and God knew that. If righteousness came by obedience, then Christ has died in vain. Do you agree?

The law was never given as a way for man to be holy. The law was given so that man could see his sin and recognize that he couldn't save himself. By looking at the law, man only sees and recognizes sin. When we have our mind on sin, it is the very thing that we are drawn to. It would be like me giving you a house with 100 rooms and telling you that you could go and live in every room except number 99. If you go in number 99, you will lose the house. You wouldn't even be able to think about the other 99 beautiful rooms, for the desire to go in room 99. I am giving you an illustration of the law.

Apparently considerably different from yours. I will answer this in more detail later.


First, in the New Testament we are commanded to judge those in the church. Second, I don�t fellowship with �Christians� who immediately attack me when they discover I love the Lord enough to obey Him. Never-the-less I will associate with them. One fellow who was a member of his church�s board told me, �I thought I was a Christian till I met you.� As soon as he started obeying The New Testament he was asked to leave the church. I was not surprised. The vast majority of �Christians� are not. They play a game and don�t want anyone quoting Scripture to them. They love, like you, a mushy kind of god.


Unless I mention otherwise I talk about the Law of Christ found in the New Testament. I did write an essay about why I don�t do the Sabbath when asked by a Seventh Day Adventist. After he and his elders went over it and found many holes I redid it and resubmitted it to them. They could find no holes in my theology. I remember one of the Seventh Day Adventist saying, �You�re not like most people. You don�t attack me.� I responded, �You�re not like most Seventh Day Adventists. You actually seem to be a Christian.� We were friends for years.


That is the only way I like to discuss anything.


When the �Christians� go on the attack it is almost always the issue. Why else do they attack?


I agree with your statements. You don�t seem to agree with your own words.


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You have two things going on here. I got saved for me. I focused on myself otherwise I would not have realized I needed a Savior. The idea of how well we can do, in ourselves, is foreign to Christianity. Once we accept what He has already done, then we begin to obey the extremely basic, �Grow in Grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.�


Whose talking about fighting sin in the flesh? Whose talking about fighting sin? I am talking about obeying the New Testament.


If we focus on the Lord we will want to obey His Word and NOT attack those who already are.


Are you back to the Law of Moses? Why?


Where do you read that in the New Testament? I missed it.


You are confusing righteousness and obedience. Consider Romans 10:9-10. Righteousness resulted from belief, BUT salvation resulted from the obedience of confessing. They are two sides of the same coin.



Again you are stuck on the Law of Moses. The person who is in love with Jesus doesn't concern himself with Moses and obeying or not obeying the Law of Moses. You miss the idea a Christian is either new or loves the Lord enough to want to obey His New Testament commands, precepts, instructions, and ordinances.

Please check your private messages.

Ringman, if you could see my heart you would know that I bear no ill will toward you. I would hug you just like a brother if I only could. I simply want you to know and see that salvation is not based on you or your keeping commandments of any kind. Yes, we absolutely should keep all commandments but my relationship with God is not based on my obedience, it's based only on the obedience of Jesus. It's there in the scriptures, if you will look for it.

I believe you bear no ill will toward me. You make no sense, though, by constantly repeating the mantra that salvation is not based on me keeping the commands. You can't seem to get to the point I keep trying to get you to. That is, if you love the Lord you will obey the New Testament instructions and you will be delighted that I am obeying and you will not constantly try to get me to give up obeying. If you are not obeying Jesus, you are not saved. We obey because we are saved by His Grace and love Him.



If you don't mind, would list three different commandments we should obey?