Lucked into an Anschutz 22mag locally for a song. Unfortunately, the previous owner didn't keep it "mint"...
What are my options as far as stock refinishing? Is this something a guy can do himself, or is it not worth it? What would the ballpark price for a pro to do it?
That stock is very fixable. You should be able to handle it easily. Most beginners start off with Tru Oil, and in this case, that's what I would suggest. Strip the finish with any finish remover, taking care to remove or mask off any plastic parts beforehand. Gently sand down the stock (stay out of the checkering!) down to, oh 600 grit, stain if you want, and then apply the Tru Oil in very very thin coats, rubbed in with your hand. Lightly buff with OOOO steel wool between coats. To do it properly and fill the grain, you may need twenty or more coats. Most folks don't go to that extreme though. A rifle that nice though, I'd give it my best effort...
That's the Cliff Notes version of how to do it.....PM me if you need more info. I'd be glad to help.
You only live once, but...if you do it right, once is enough.
The above pretty much nailed it. I have had good luck with hardware store strippers even with a Browning that had about 1/4 inch of that glossy crap they used to use. Apply and let sit, brush or wipe off, use a tooth brush in tight spots and checkering. If you search Midway or any of the other suppliers they will have kits and probably DVD's. It is not hard, in fact it is rather fun and you will be proud of the results every time you use the rifle.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
Step one: PUT THE SANDPAPER DOWN!!!! Step two: Use a chemical stripper such as Zip Strip, Strypeez etc. After it is stripped then you may sand the deepest gouges. step three: Refinish with the finish of your choice. Pick a finish and we'll go from there, i.e. Oil Finish, Polyurethane, Tru Oil or what.
Personally I would choose an oil finish and cut it down 2 or 3 to one with mineral spirits and wet sand it in. It takes time, well over a month, but worth it. in my opinion.
I've redone several. Lots of different ways, some better than others. I'd second second using a chemical stripper. Best advice is don't get in a hurry. Don't try to get it finished over a weekend.
My best results came from dipping 1" squares of sand paper into oil (I've used tru, dutch, lindseed, boiled lindseed, and various combinations thereof) and making small circles the length of the stock. The theory being, eventually the pours of the wood will fill in with the slurry made by sanding. I start with 150 grit and make my way to at least 400. I normally did one pass then let the stock dry a day or two before hitting it again. I wipe off the excess slurry before letting it dry, some don't.
I haven't done too many stocks, but the last one I did I used Citri Strip to remove the old finish.
Here is what I started with.
Once I got all the old finish off I sanded the stock to 600 grit.
Then I used Minwax Antique Oil finsih cut with thinner about 50/50 and followed instructions I found on Kevin Weavers tech page. I don't think it turned out too bad, I've been thinking of sending it off to Alhmans to get it checkered now.
Then I used Minwax Antique Oil finsih cut with thinner about 50/50 and followed instructions I found on Kevin Weavers tech page.
Very nice job!
How does that Minwax Antique Oil Finish hold up in rain/snow? Does it get a blotchy white appearance like some of the other wiping varnishes if exposed to moisture?
Then I used Minwax Antique Oil finsih cut with thinner about 50/50 and followed instructions I found on Kevin Weavers tech page.
Very nice job!
How does that Minwax Antique Oil Finish hold up in rain/snow? Does it get a blotchy white appearance like some of the other wiping varnishes if exposed to moisture?
Thanks
SD
Honestly I don't know, the finish has held up very well so far. It has a ton of coats on it and it did take about a month to refinish. However, I've never had it in real wet conditions. It's pretty much a range and pronghorn rifle. I imagine a top coat of clear urethatne would help in real wet conditions.
I'd have linked the tech page from Kevin Weaver's web site but either it's down or he no longer keeps it. Kevin recommended the Minwax finish when I stopped by and had him install the new recoil pad on this stock. Basically it was just wet sanding the stock again wiping the slurry off until it filled the grain in like I wanted. Then several more coats of the finish letting it dry and rubbing it with steel wool between coats.
Great, thanks for the link! I sort of found a rifle I really wanted today that needed this. Have you personally used this EdM? Karnis is a very talented fella for sure.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
A Tru-oil finish. A good & short vid of stock refinishing.
What a frigging joke! Wetsanding in the oil with 180 grit!!! Bad enough to use fine paper, but scratches at 180 are visible to the average unaided eye...
Sanding the edges of the inletting with the short side of a block???
Sanding in the mud in a circular motion???
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Then I used Minwax Antique Oil finsih cut with thinner about 50/50 and followed instructions I found on Kevin Weavers tech page.
Very nice job!
How does that Minwax Antique Oil Finish hold up in rain/snow? Does it get a blotchy white appearance like some of the other wiping varnishes if exposed to moisture?
Thanks
SD
You nailed it. It will blotch.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
I would prefer to leave as much of the old finish as possible... Start with Formby's Wood Refinisher and apply it on a clean rag. You want it to soften the finish but not take it all off.
Then move the softened finish around to the thin and missing spots. It usually does not take long. Stop as soon as you feel like it is starting to look good. Allow that to dry well and repeat if it looks uneven when dry.
Add Tru-Oil over the top by applying heavily and wiping dry after about 10 minutes. Add as many coats as you need to make it look good to your eye.
If you want a tougher finish use spar varnish for the first coat over the old finish and then thin it with pure high-quality oil (available at better paint stores and art supply places) applied like the Tru-Oil.
With the spar varnish the finish will be diluted by the oil and produce a finish that looks more like oil with every coat, but will bond very well and have a bit more protection.
Knocking back the gloss to whatever level of sheen you desire will require a lengthy drying period and something like rottenstone on a felt rag.
Red flags on stock refinishing that indicate you should go elsewhere include sandpaper, steel wool, rubbing oil in by the drop, sanding mud into the finish, thinning the finish for penetration, and long drying times between coats of oil...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Yes I have used it on a handful of stocks including one laminated. Very easy to use. They used to make a satin mix that did not need to be knocked down. The new one is gloss so a rub with rottenstone is needed for the satin look. My 13 year old son used their aerosol mix on a 10-22 project of his a few years ago and it also came out very nice.
Filling the grain, do not stop short on this procedure, do as many coats as required and take your time, sand between each one and you should be very happy with the results
Then I used Minwax Antique Oil finsih cut with thinner about 50/50 and followed instructions I found on Kevin Weavers tech page.
Very nice job!
How does that Minwax Antique Oil Finish hold up in rain/snow? Does it get a blotchy white appearance like some of the other wiping varnishes if exposed to moisture?
Thanks
SD
Honestly I don't know, the finish has held up very well so far. It has a ton of coats on it and it did take about a month to refinish. However, I've never had it in real wet conditions. It's pretty much a range and pronghorn rifle. I imagine a top coat of clear urethatne would help in real wet conditions.
I'd have linked the tech page from Kevin Weaver's web site but either it's down or he no longer keeps it. Kevin recommended the Minwax finish when I stopped by and had him install the new recoil pad on this stock. Basically it was just wet sanding the stock again wiping the slurry off until it filled the grain in like I wanted. Then several more coats of the finish letting it dry and rubbing it with steel wool between coats.
Thats what I was of afraid of. I have a CZ 550 FS that I'm considering stripping off finish and applying a new finish that will allow the grain/mineral streaks to show. The finish on there now is a sludgy muddy varnish film that hides the nice wood below.
I have considerable experience applying pure oils(linseed and tung both heated and wipe on) but looking for something with a bit more protection for adverse weather conditions. I'm afraid the oil won't be enough to prevent the full length stock from warping and affecting accuracy. I like the look and feel of pure oil finishes, so any help in acheiving the oil look that won't blotch with the protection of spar is appreciated.
Thanks gents!
SD
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by SD65
Originally Posted by taylorce1
Then I used Minwax Antique Oil finsih cut with thinner about 50/50 and followed instructions I found on Kevin Weavers tech page.
Very nice job!
How does that Minwax Antique Oil Finish hold up in rain/snow? Does it get a blotchy white appearance like some of the other wiping varnishes if exposed to moisture?
Thats what I was of afraid of. I have a CZ 550 FS that I'm considering stripping off finish and applying a new finish that will allow the grain/mineral streaks to show. The finish on there now is a sludgy muddy varnish film that hides the nice wood below.
I have considerable experience applying pure oils(linseed and tung both heated and wipe on) but looking for something with a bit more protection for adverse weather conditions. I'm afraid the oil won't be enough to prevent the full length stock from warping and affecting accuracy. I like the look and feel of pure oil finishes, so any help in acheiving the oil look that won't blotch with the protection of spar is appreciated.
Thanks gents!
SD
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by SD65
Originally Posted by taylorce1
Then I used Minwax Antique Oil finsih cut with thinner about 50/50 and followed instructions I found on Kevin Weavers tech page.
Very nice job!
How does that Minwax Antique Oil Finish hold up in rain/snow? Does it get a blotchy white appearance like some of the other wiping varnishes if exposed to moisture?
Thanks
SD
You nailed it. It will blotch.
Buy a tiny can of spar varnish and some fresh oil from a paint or art supply store. Apply the spar varnish full strength for the first coat. Let it stand for about 15 minutes and wipe dry with a clean rag. Apply another coat the same way then refill the can with the oil and stir well.
Continue applying the finish and then refilling with oil every couple coats.
You will have a spar varnish finish underneath and oil on top. It will look like oil, fill like spar varnish, and be very easy to repair.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Do not go to any extra trouble to find Tung if they have good linseed oil. Despite advertising, there is no real difference between the two and they are used interchangeably in the industry in finish blends.
Tung is not used in food as there is a high incidence of people allergic to it... linseed oil is used in food and sets the grade a little lower for linseed as the best oil goes to the food industry. The best tung oil goes into finish... The problem is the oil you can buy is usually not the best grade of tung either.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Then I used Minwax Antique Oil finsih cut with thinner about 50/50 and followed instructions I found on Kevin Weavers tech page.
Very nice job!
How does that Minwax Antique Oil Finish hold up in rain/snow? Does it get a blotchy white appearance like some of the other wiping varnishes if exposed to moisture?
Thanks
SD
Not good at all. The first time you take it out in the rain will ruin the finish {I've seen it personally}. It says "for interior use only" on the can and they mean it.
The advice to use Antique Oil is good. I've done two walnut stocks with it, and both look great. Do sand with up to 600 grit, then raise the grain and repeat a couple of times. Thin the oil on the first coat foe max penetration.
That said, I just made a few wooden things for a niece and I used pure Tung Oil instead of my old standby, boiled linseed oil. One item was in walnut and the other in Cherry, and I was stunned at how nice they came out. Tung Oil filled wood pores far better than BLO does. Next gunstocks I refinish will be with Tung Oil.
As for Antique Oil and Tru Oil, they and several others are just versions of the same thing, which is a mix of varnish, mineral spirits, and an oil, which can be Tung Oil or BLO.
So if you buy Tung Oil, I'm talking about the stuff Woodcraft sells, which is pure Tung Oil. The Watco Tung Oil is a mix like Tru Oil is. And if you want to use the Antique Oil, but can't get it, buy and use the Danish Oil in the original version.
And then there's the real oil finish, which can take months. If I was going to try that, I'd use that pure Tung Oil. Should look terrific.
Steve... Don't be too afraid of it... Get a book on gunstock finishing and go to town.. If you want advice go down to see Frank in Eatonville. He is the kind of gunsmith that will help you out. Good honest man...I'm not claiming to be an expert but he thought me a lot..
Thats what I was of afraid of. I have a CZ 550 FS that I'm considering stripping off finish and applying a new finish that will allow the grain/mineral streaks to show. The finish on there now is a sludgy muddy varnish film that hides the nice wood below.
I have considerable experience applying pure oils(linseed and tung both heated and wipe on) but looking for something with a bit more protection for adverse weather conditions. I'm afraid the oil won't be enough to prevent the full length stock from warping and affecting accuracy. I like the look and feel of pure oil finishes, so any help in acheiving the oil look that won't blotch with the protection of spar is appreciated.
Thanks gents!
SD
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by SD65
Originally Posted by taylorce1
Then I used Minwax Antique Oil finsih cut with thinner about 50/50 and followed instructions I found on Kevin Weavers tech page.
Very nice job!
How does that Minwax Antique Oil Finish hold up in rain/snow? Does it get a blotchy white appearance like some of the other wiping varnishes if exposed to moisture?
Ed, I read your post again and went to the link. The Custom Oil looks like a fine idea. It's nothing new, being just another version of the Oil/mineral spirits/varnish blends. I certainly do approve of Tung Oil, now that I've has some good success with it. As for just an oil finish on a stock, I've got one that I did 20 years ago. Looks great. Lots of ways to do a stock, though I'm not a fan of a layer type finish like spray on varnish, even though that's one of the best of keeping out moisture.
The advice to use Antique Oil is good. I've done two walnut stocks with it, and both look great. Do sand with up to 600 grit, then raise the grain and repeat a couple of times. Thin the oil on the first coat foe max penetration.
That said, I just made a few wooden things for a niece and I used pure Tung Oil instead of my old standby, boiled linseed oil. One item was in walnut and the other in Cherry, and I was stunned at how nice they came out. Tung Oil filled wood pores far better than BLO does. Next gunstocks I refinish will be with Tung Oil.
As for Antique Oil and Tru Oil, they and several others are just versions of the same thing, which is a mix of varnish, mineral spirits, and an oil, which can be Tung Oil or BLO.
So if you buy Tung Oil, I'm talking about the stuff Woodcraft sells, which is pure Tung Oil. The Watco Tung Oil is a mix like Tru Oil is. And if you want to use the Antique Oil, but can't get it, buy and use the Danish Oil in the original version.
And then there's the real oil finish, which can take months. If I was going to try that, I'd use that pure Tung Oil. Should look terrific.
Of all the statements you made about finishes only one is correct... I leave you to guessing which one that is.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Sitka, I reread all of your posts. Your refinishing ideas are somewhat less than terrific. We will agree to disagree.
You were the one that suggested that as much of the original finish be left on as possible. That's why I had to go back and reread what you wrote, since I had quit reading when I saw that first poor suggestion.
As someone frequently consulted for finishing issues on a wide range of wood substrates, a great deal of lab time working on better finishes, and a ton of practical experience over many years, please feel free to guess away as you have been.
To suggest you have any insight over the simple suggestion to leave as much finish as possible, when you have no idea about any other aspect of wood finish is amusing.
Especially when you have no idea which of your statements about wood finish is correct. Read some of my posts for the past 10+ years here and learn a little something about the facts and myths in wood finishing. Anyone suggesting they have used BLO more than once on a non-military stock is a fool, period.
There are many that should be asking advice, not giving it...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
I've been doing finishing for a long time, as you apparently have. I suppose we all have our favorite techniques. Being a woodworker, I am constantly trying new finishes, with the ideal finish being the best finish for the least amount of work. I've used, and been happy with Antique Oil, and have had no blotching issues, though I haven't had it snowed on yet. That was, compared to an old style hand rubbed oil finish, pretty easy. These days I'm thinking that using Tung oil in place of BLO might speed up the process of the hand rubbed oil finish, which is my favorite stock finish.
What I don't normally like on a gunstocks are the old style film finishes, like the one you suggested could be repaired. It didn't look that good to start with, so I saw no logic in keeping it.
As for your 10+ years of posts on finishes, good for you. I'm sure you are good at it, but maybe...just maybe...you aren't the only person worthy of an opinion, as your manner would suggest is the case.
And...it just occurred to me that I do have a bolt action that could use a new finish. It presently has a hand rubbed oil finish that's probably25 years old. If you will, please outline the finish you would recommend. I'm quite serious, in that I will consider using what you recommend. I'm out of woodworking projects at the moment and could use a new one. Please outline it stepwise, so that I don't miss something. Maybe I'll learn something, and will then give you the respect that you demand. Ok?
I do not want, let alone demand anything from you, and least of all your respect. You come in here posting a bunch of utter garbage finishing advice and send lots of folks off on all sorts of bad roads.
BLO is, was, and forever shall be junk as a quality stock finish. Your comments show you failed to notice the very obvious...
Any interior blended finish such as Minwax Antique oil, Danish oils, and such are light years away from Tru-Oil. Your suggestion on the compositions of them are not close and miss the big issues. They will blotch and badly when used in bad weather.
You suggest maximizing penetration by thinning with a solvent. You obviously have never done it on a test board and then cut the board in half to see how much deeper it didn't take the finish. I have many times just to show what happens.
You obviously do not understand what happens to the finish as the solvents leave either.
I do not have to post opinion as I can rely on facts. When it is an opinion I note the fact.
If you do a search you should find lots of examples of finish suggestions I have made. There are lots of choices in finishes and opinions about which is best for a given set of circumstances. As long as the underlying facts about a particular finish are true and understood they may be chosen by opinion based on those facts.
There are several other folks here that have a very good handle on finishing and give outstanding advice. And there are plenty of the clueless sort that continue to fail to understand.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Tru-Oil, which I think you seem to like, is just a wiping varnish like Antique Oil, Formby's, Watco Danish Oil, Waterlox (my favorite, by the way). Wiping varnishes vary in % composition, so they can be a bit different in final appearance or drying time. If the oil is Tung, it'll dry faster than if the oil is BLO.
Tru Oil is 56% mineral spirits or turpentine, 33 % oil varnish, and 11% oil (Tung, I think, though some say it's BLO).
So all I get from you is just a superior sounding blather. Tell me your favorite finish and I might give it a try if I like the way it sounds.
You would do well to actually know something before posting it... Your Tru-Oil composition is amusing and so far from reality it is laughable. The MSDS should show about those numbers for mineral spirits, but please enlighten me on where you get the idea turpentine could be interchangeable and just exactly what "oil varnish" is.
Now, read this carefully, because you are posing and in the worst way. There is no difference between tung and linseed oil in any meaningful way. BLO is never used in a commercial blend as it is a different product made with linseed oil, usually. BLO is where the worst grade of linseed oil goes. Many polymerization inhibitors are used to keep it from curing on the shelf or in transit. There are also curing catalysts, but poor ones.
Tru-Oil is made with whatever oil is most economical and meets Birchwood-Casey's grade that week. It is often a mix but may be either.
I could go on, but you get the point, maybe?
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
I suppose that you aren't going to give me your favorite stock finish info.
Oil varnish differentiates it from a water based varnish (as in "oil based paint"). Tung Oil dries faster than BLO and sets up harder - making it better for water resistance, though Oils and Wiping Varnishes aren't that great at repelling moisture. That said, some of the very finest gunstock finishes are hand rubbed oil finishes - tung based or BLO based.
Hate to be confrontational. Would rather be nice. However, if you've been spreading your 'info' on this forum for over 10 years, you haven't been doing many favors to budding stock finishers. Though I suppose that if you just pointed them to Tru-Oil you've done a good job. But...it's just a wiping varnish, like Antique Oil.
And why the reluctance to share your favorite stock finish for Walnut? I really would like to know what it is. Learning, at any age, is good. That's why I drove a couple hundred miles to spend a few days with a real woodworking professional some years ago. I did learn a few things, but the good thing that I learned is that I wasn't doing anything particularly wrong. He was, at that time, in the process of making some small side tables from various woods and in various styles, and selling them for $6000 each. Once I got my hands on his finishing process, I made a side table for my wife. Just lovely, it is, and about as nice as what he makes and sells. Makes me happy just to look at it. What doesn't make me happy is that walnut stock on my 220. Give me your finishing secrets and I'll give it a go. Thanks.
Last time... You are pretending to have a clue. I pulled out the MSDS for Tru-Oil and find you have the numbers exactly right, proving your source for the "info" but you substituted several things to sound like you have a clue.
Why would a finish manufacturer use a completed finish as an ingredient? Hint, they wouldn't.
Why would the varnish solvents not be listed under the solvents? Hint, they wouldn't.
How would proprietary modified oils compare to that oil varnish as a component? Hint, wildly different...
I have typed out many different formulas for different woods as gunstock finishes and even showed specific test results from at least a hundred different finishes. They are all here and very easy to find.
My personal favorite is a slow-cure epoxy with any number of oil finishes on top, but I do not suggest it be used for refinishing.
I think it is wonderful you are a hobby woodworker and have fine results with indoor finishes on indoor goods... doesn't mean you have a clue about stock finishes.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
My personal favorite is a slow-cure epoxy with any number of oil finishes on top,
Sorry if I am misunderstanding you but, you would put epoxy on first and oil on top??? Sorry but I don't think that will work. If you go the other way as I have and use something like Watco then put a satin urethane on top, that and makes a nice durable finish.
Last edited by Blacktailer; 08/29/14.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
Blacktailer; Good afternoon to you sir, I trust this finds you doing well on the last Friday in August.
Obviously I'm not Sitka deer, but I will say that based upon some his advice I've done at least three stocks now with a base layer of slow cure epoxy - G2 in this case - followed by successive layers of Tru Oil.
This stock was done for the watch Sargent of a good friend - the maple spacers and rosewood tip and grip cap were his specific instructions.
Sometimes actually I've found that G2 will work a bit like shellac in that it will seal an oily wood like such as some exotics tend to be and allow a nice even finish done with oil after.
Anyway that's been my experience with using that method. Hopefully it was useful information for you or someone out there.
Good luck on your stocking projects whichever way you decide and on your hunts this fall too.
My personal favorite is a slow-cure epoxy with any number of oil finishes on top,
Sorry if I am misunderstanding you but, you would put epoxy on first and oil on top??? Sorry but I don't think that will work. If you go the other way as I have and use something like Watco then put a satin urethane on top, that and makes a nice durable finish.
Blacktailer Epoxy makes a great wood finish and is as waterproof as wood gets. There are a number of secrets to making it work well such as never thinning it and warming the stock before applying to aid penetration.
Oil looks better than epoxy and is easy to apply and repair. I have never found a single issue with oil not sticking to epoxy with the exception of some very exotic formulas with various additives for specific functions.
Spar varnish under oil is far better than the reverse. The oil does not make it waterproof at all. Oil finishes are worse than bare wood for fending off atmospheric water. Further, spar varnish does a far better and faster job of filling pores. And the spar varnish will not shrink nearly as much as the oil.
Next, never use anything but gloss finishes on quality pieces. Silica is usually the additive that is used to create satin or matte finishes. Silica does absolutely nothing positive for the finish other than obscure the wood beneath and weaken the finish and leaving the surface rough.
A good rubbed out eggshell luster on oil does not hide the wood... art
Last edited by Sitka deer; 08/29/14. Reason: added "on oil" to last line
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Blacktailer; Good afternoon to you sir, I trust this finds you doing well on the last Friday in August.
Obviously I'm not Sitka deer, but I will say that based upon some his advice I've done at least three stocks now with a base layer of slow cure epoxy - G2 in this case - followed by successive layers of Tru Oil.
This stock was done for the watch Sargent of a good friend - the maple spacers and rosewood tip and grip cap were his specific instructions.
Sometimes actually I've found that G2 will work a bit like shellac in that it will seal an oily wood like such as some exotics tend to be and allow a nice even finish done with oil after.
Anyway that's been my experience with using that method. Hopefully it was useful information for you or someone out there.
Good luck on your stocking projects whichever way you decide and on your hunts this fall too.
Dwayne
Hello Dwayne Thanks for answering the question. I really miss the G1 and G2 epoxies!!! I am out of them and have been for just long enough to know how much I miss 'em!
You are right, the G2 was great for oily woods and like shellac it sticks to almost everything and almost everything sticks to it. art
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
I guess I'll never get that finish info from you, Sitka.
If you are too lazy to do a search then you are likely too lazy to actually finish some wood... Sad part is around here some nice guy is probably going to do the search for you.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
I started using West System 207 epoxy as a base coat on marine brightwork when they first brought it out long ago. Since it has zero UV protective qualities, one is behooved to continue with a build up of a good spar varnish that does. Using it, or more often spar varnish, to fill the pores on walnut gun stocks, by the time I achieved full pore fill-age in preparation for applying an "oil" finish I realized that I might as well just keep going with the varnish and create a decent barrier finish. (Which modified my basic approach to just apply the varnish and rub out between coats until eventually the pores are filled, then do a couple more for good measure.)
9-10 coats of varnish- with or without a base coat of epoxy- sounds like a lot of varnish on a stock, but remember the key words are "rub out between coats" (with 320x on a backer) which means that the final film is actually pretty thin. Final rubbing out (with an extremely fine medium) to kill the shine of the glossy varnish (heed what Art said about the silica in Matte or semi-gloss varnishes) reduces the film thickness even more. For the coup de main I then apply a good paste wax to instill a pleasing luster. Oft times uninitiated folks believe they are looking at a laboriously applied "hand rubbed" (hah! what a joke that is) oil finish.
There are lots of ways to skin the cat, that will result in pleasing finishes but with varying degrees of actual protection. Basically, there are no shortcuts if one's goal is to create a beautiful and weather resistant finish on a gun stock. My theory is one should allow as much time to apply the finish as one spent in actually making the stock- or pretty close to it. As with most things in life you get out what you put into it.
My livelihood, post-yacht carpentry, is centered on creating fine cabinetry and reproductions of archaic scientific apparatus. The finishes I use on that stuff are quite different than the finishes I use on guns that may see a day of hunting in rain/snow- which come to think of it reflect more closely the finishes I used on exterior brightwork on wooden sail boats.
I learned my lesson back in the Dark Ages of my youth when I felt proprietary oil finishes were the cat's meow. Nothing like getting caught out in the rain and watching that pretty oil finish turn splotchy and the pores divest themselves of "filler" to make one re-think his approach to finishing.
Last edited by gnoahhh; 08/30/14.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Art, I cheated, I have it saved in watched topics so I can reference as needed. I might add it works as advertised and much better than the straight oil I had been using for years. --- Mel
The only thing I'm an expert at is my own opinion, and I have plenty of those!
I started using West System 207 epoxy as a base coat on marine brightwork when they first brought it out long ago. Since it has zero UV protective qualities, one is behooved to continue with a build up of a good spar varnish that does. Using it, or more often spar varnish, to fill the pores on walnut gun stocks, by the time I achieved full pore fill-age in preparation for applying an "oil" finish I realized that I might as well just keep going with the varnish and create a decent barrier finish. (Which modified my basic approach to just apply the varnish and rub out between coats until eventually the pores are filled, then do a couple more for good measure.)
9-10 coats of varnish- with or without a base coat of epoxy- sounds like a lot of varnish on a stock, but remember the key words are "rub out between coats" (with 320x on a backer) which means that the final film is actually pretty thin. Final rubbing out (with an extremely fine medium) to kill the shine of the glossy varnish (heed what Art said about the silica in Matte or semi-gloss varnishes) reduces the film thickness even more. For the coup de main I then apply a good paste wax to instill a pleasing luster. Oft times uninitiated folks believe they are looking at a laboriously applied "hand rubbed" (hah! what a joke that is) oil finish.
There are lots of ways to skin the cat, that will result in pleasing finishes but with varying degrees of actual protection. Basically, there are no shortcuts if one's goal is to create a beautiful and weather resistant finish on a gun stock. My theory is one should allow as much time to apply the finish as one spent in actually making the stock- or pretty close to it. As with most things in life you get out what you put into it.
My livelihood, post-yacht carpentry, is centered on creating fine cabinetry and reproductions of archaic scientific apparatus. The finishes I use on that stuff are quite different than the finishes I use on guns that may see a day of hunting in rain/snow- which come to think of it reflect more closely the finishes I used on exterior brightwork on wooden sail boats.
I learned my lesson back in the Dark Ages of my youth when I felt proprietary oil finishes were the cat's meow. Nothing like getting caught out in the rain and watching that pretty oil finish turn splotchy and the pores divest themselves of "filler" to make one re-think his approach to finishing.
603country Someone else here that should be giving advice... and you should be taking notes. There are others...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Art, I cheated, I have it saved in watched topics so I can reference as needed. I might add it works as advertised and much better than the straight oil I had been using for years. --- Mel
Mel Bad enough when you cheat for yourself but letting others look at your paper is really cheating!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
I use linseed oil, mineral sprits for first coat or two with 1:1 ratio to penetrate the wood. could add stain color to maybe get some color into it. other coats I add tru oil to the mix as a hardener and wipe access.
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
Someone else here that should be giving advice... and you should be taking notes. There are others...
Art, just a little off the subject, but I have come into a rifle that has a stock made my a well known stock maker from the Southwest, that I think is just an oil finish. It is in pretty good shape and I would like to keep it that way, and use the rifle too. Any advice or tips appreciated. miles
A good wax is totally necessary when working with an oil finished stock, IMO. Therein lies the secret to making an oil finish viable- to a degree. While a barrier finish is to be preferred for a stock that will see hard use in a variety of weather/humidity conditions, I can understand the desire for an oil finish under certain circumstances- a low humidity environment, the gun sees little use beyond an occasional trip to the range, a commitment to keeping it somewhat sealed with a good paste wax, and simply the owner likes the look/feel of it. I like a nicely wrought oil finish as much as the next guy, but I usually lean toward a good barrier finish as I don't know where my guns will end up when they leave my hands, and I wish to provide the best possible protection.
Last edited by gnoahhh; 07/09/15.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Thanks, Drummond hit me up yesterday about stock refinishing. I told him to check your post. I think he can follow instructions without the pictures, but I'm not 100%.
Most of the "oil" finishes you find today aren't true oil but oil/varnish mixes and don't need wax.
Sorry, but that is not correct. Oil finishes, almost universally, have a large component of wax in them. It makes them level out better and lubricates the application process.
Finishing oil is just oil, usually, and most contain driers.
eta: Waxes as a protection for all oil finished stocks is an outstanding idea with zero downside assuming no silicone is added.
Last edited by Sitka deer; 07/09/15. Reason: add last sentence
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Thinking about refinishing the wood on a new Rossi M92 in 44 mag
Thoughts?
MinWax Antique is not what the poster thinks it is on that thread. It is nothing different from almost all oil-based finishes. Not bad, but hardly the best stock finish, or even close.
Be wary of anyone still advocating steel wool...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
I use linseed oil, mineral sprits for first coat or two with 1:1 ratio to penetrate the wood. could add stain color to maybe get some color into it. other coats I add tru oil to the mix as a hardener and wipe access.
Wood is a great filter... adding solvents to non-curing linseed does not increase oil penetration and even if it did the result would be negative in every respect for the finish.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Thanks, Drummond hit me up yesterday about stock refinishing. I told him to check your post. I think he can follow instructions without the pictures, but I'm not 100%.
Most of the "oil" finishes you find today aren't true oil but oil/varnish mixes and don't need wax.
Sorry, but that is not correct. Oil finishes, almost universally, have a large component of wax in them. It makes them level out better and lubricates the application process.
Finishing oil is just oil, usually, and most contain driers.
eta: Waxes as a protection for all oil finished stocks is an outstanding idea with zero downside assuming no silicone is added.
From everything I have found the Minwax antique finishing oil is a linseed oil/varnish
That is what most of them are, that or a oil and urethane mixture. Daly's, Watco and many others are marketed as oil and they work and look like oil but aren't 100% oil. They mke a beautiful finish that wears and protects so much better than straight oil. You can still get a straight oil if you prefer it but not many do.
That is what most of them are, that or a oil and urethane mixture. Daly's, Watco and many others are marketed as oil and they work and look like oil but aren't 100% oil. They mke a beautiful finish that wears and protects so much better than straight oil. You can still get a straight oil if you prefer it but not many do.
I guess I really must have wasted all those hours in labs formulating and testing oil-based finishes with major components like microcrystaline waxes, carnuba, and all those other waxes...
Have a blissed day!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Most of the "oil" finishes you find today aren't true oil but oil/varnish mixes and don't need wax.
Sorry, but that is not correct. Oil finishes, almost universally, have a large component of wax in them. It makes them level out better and lubricates the application process.
Finishing oil is just oil, usually, and most contain driers.
eta: Waxes as a protection for all oil finished stocks is an outstanding idea with zero downside assuming no silicone is added.
From everything I have found the Minwax antique finishing oil is a linseed oil/varnish
Yes, that is the standard, but it has a large component of fairly soft waxes which keeps the luster down. It also has a pretty high VOC (solvents) level which makes it easy to apply, but slows drying, creates more potential for later telegraphing of pores, less waterproofing, and less value for the money.
Microcrystaline waxes are harder and produce more luster. Carnuba is fairly hard and cheaper, while other waxes from other plants and vegtables along with beeswax are soft.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
That is what most of them are, that or a oil and urethane mixture. Daly's, Watco and many others are marketed as oil and they work and look like oil but aren't 100% oil. They mke a beautiful finish that wears and protects so much better than straight oil. You can still get a straight oil if you prefer it but not many do.
Thank you.
Have you used the minwax antique oil finish?
Sorry but I haven't. I'm a huge fan of Watco Teak oil these days. I've used a lot of different finishes from straight oils to polyurethanes and have yet to find one that offers the combination of looks and protection of this product. It'll make the figure and color of a fine piece of walnut really pop. It penetrates deep and offers good protection, it even has UV protection and it's easy to work with to boot.
I know this post is a few months old... I just bought my son a Rosewood Laminate stock from Richards micro fit. I was looking for some recommendations regarding finishing the stock... I have a couple of questions: 1) Are there special concerns I need to take into consideration since it's a laminate stock? 2) The stock has a pink hue to it... When I called Richards back regarding the pink color, the said it was from the dust, the recommended I take a damp rag and wipe a section down.
Main thing with a laminate is to always use a sanding block with any abrasives sandpaper or pads. If you don't the glue lines will stand proud.
I wouldn't bother with an oil finish for one either but any of the improved wiping Oil/Varnish finishes will work.
Laminates usually wont take stain well or at all but you could add a dye type stain to the finish if the pink color persists. Go very lightly as the darker the finish the more it will show scratches. Record how much you add so you can get it the same when you refinish.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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