Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Who was not influenced by Jack or Elmer?

Aagaard & Barsness for me. I suppose it helps that I've hunted with both, and know them to be good men as well as great writers.

I've hunted with another writer or two who were excellent with the written word, but turned out to be royal pricks in person!

Between JOC and Elmer, I'm definitely more of an O' Connor fan, and enjoyed his writing growing up.

Both were way before my time. If I had to choose I'd say I lean more towards the JOC side of things but I'd wager Keith left a larger mark on the shooting world as a whole.

Jack Lott cost me a lot of money on my early short fat seven wildcat. I don't know if I'm still angry or not and it's been about thirty years.

Okay, that made me laugh. Thanks.



My aren't you the well read fellow. I do find it amusing that your "opinions were determined and set". Do you reckon your set opinions will now never change? Got it all figured.

Personally for me both were influential.

Keith was an influence with heavy Sixguns and O'Connor seemed to strike a sensible balance on rifle cartridges for big game.

As a funny side note I started using a .338 Win Mag for everything and my dad started buying me JOC hardbound books. Seems he was trying to swing the balance back to centerline.

That's an interesting comment. I would agree Keith left a bigger mark especially because he gave us Hagel as well.

John Barsness is a terrific writer because he never tells you everything he knows on a subject, not to withhold a % for superiority, more an instinct to know when enough has been said.
Liked Hagel and Sitton very much. Wooters was a genuine teacher and always an easy read. Many others today, are too thin on knowledge to be writing.

Thanks for the kind words Bob. You may remember Col Allison had a .30/06 converted to 7mm RM before his epic 3 month hunt throughout the US back in the 70's? When I hunted Reds with him just before I came here he was still using it. Never saw that many 7 mags in hunting camps over there but it really would be a good choice for the majority of it.

Yeah you're right John, seems its 308s, 243s and 223s for 90% of hunters in this country. The other 10% of hunters will experiment with any number of cartridges but in the main Aussie shooters seem like an unimaginative bunch; hence a dearth of cartridges like the 7mm RM. Having said that the 7-08 is really catching on now.

Last piece of Col's that I read he was using a Zastava 30-06 and 125g NBTs on hog deer. Semi retired on the NSW mid north coast now. He's certainly one writer I'd enjoy having a beer with. His knowledge of customs and stockwood is something that would be interesting to tap into.

I started reading O'Connor at about age twelve; I was given old Outdoor Lifes from a favorite uncle. Mr. O'Connor got me interested in bolt action hunting rifles as apposed to military weapons and lever actions from the Westerns. I started with Keith at about 14, he was entertaining; but about his only influence on me was making me want a .44 magnum a long time before Dirty Harry. If a rifle is accurate, at least somewhat practical, or is historically interesting, I like it.

I had a subscription (thanks to various jobs I did as a youngster) to Outdoor Life so read O'Connor. However it was the fact that the single best hunting book and almost the only gun related book in the 'local' library was an O'Connor tome which I nearly wore out - and I 'knew' I would someday own a M70 in 270. Another useful book was "Hatcher's Notebook" which lead me into the world of ammunition curiousities - which lead to the blowing up of a 22 rifle (using the powder from a couple gallery shorts in a LR case) as well as my continued interest in dumping powder into and pressing primers and bullets into the cases of various cartridges. Keith arrived on my horizon when I bought "Hell I was There" in order to fulfill the purchase requirements of an Outdoor Life Book club commitment.

Then there was Hagel, Jamison, Waters, Timm, Howell, Barsness ( ) and a whole bunch of others. I have bought things as a result of reading most of them. (Some have cost me a lot! ) Does that mean they influenced me to some extent? (Still don't have a M70 270 )

While I don't think of myself as either a Connor or Keith devotee like a lot of kids of the 60's &70' s I read every outdoor rag I could get and as such was no doubt influenced by both . I do agree with what someone has already mentioned Connor did preach about bullet placement over sheer power and my limited experiences have reflected this to be true. Since I mainly deer hunt big bores have never been my thing.

Like others have posted, I can't say that I was influenced by either Keith or OC, as they were a touch before my time.

I will say I have spent the weekend reading "Hell, I was there." and I gave up on an earlier attempt to read "Sixguns".

I don't know that I have ever had an opportunity to read OC, per se.

Aagaard and Askins were two of my favorite writers when I was growing up.

12 seems to be a magic age; I discovered my 1st Outdoor Life in a Drug Store for 25 Cents, August, 1955 issue. Still have it. Do not recall how long I bought off the newsrack until I subscribed, but was not long. I tried to read everything I could get my hands on in those early years. Let my sub expire to OL when O'Connor left. Enough of an O'Connor fan that I have pursued acquiring all his writings.
For those who comment they prefer one or the others style,
O'Connor was a Journalism Professor; Keith was a Cowboy/Guide, with not much formal education. His style you see in print most likely had a lot of Editorial assistance. Not to demean his content; he had me wanting to shoot a deer with my 44 Mag, and handguns were not legal in Texas in 1961. There is a story about when the Game Warden found me in the field one evening with it. Good thing my family was friends with the Sheriff!

John,
My apologies for incorrect internet interpretation.(The dreaded iii Factor)
My opinions were set at the point of firstly discovering JO'C meaning were found to lean towards his view, secondly, you cannot be a "learned" or "well read" reader for something that is not available to read. We are after all, talking pre computer and internet stage.

And again, Because my experience with handloading and cartridges measure better by the wheel barrow load in consumables, it is an incorrect assumption to assume I am inflexible to learn after any point.

The internet teaches me both the value and detriments associated with what we assume, is communication.

John

I am too young to have grown up reading Keith or O'Connor. I grew up reading Carmichael though and always enjoyed his writings. One specific article that struck me was "Wind, Wolves and the Golden Boys." He is a big reason I grew up enfatuated with the .338WM...and the .260Rem. I always thought he was a class act.

My wife is from Idaho and while visiting family a couple of years ago we checked out the O'Connor center. It was great and I picked up several pieces of his works while I was there. I loved his writings too.

I gradually started picking up some of Keith's works over the last couple of years too. He amazes me. Not for his remarkable skill but his sheer tenacity. The knowledge he had was completely based on living in his time, in his wilderness and on his ranches. That is experience so many of us will never have or even have an opportunity to gather. Instead we depend on literature.

Neither Keith nor O'Connor were truly remarkable shots in my opinion though. Each have written extensively about the shots they miss and walk into game. Practices like this would be highly criticized if today's writers printed such. Instead, practice at the range is preached so single, accurate shots can be taken. Practice wasn't touted so much in older writings, probably because of cost factors and "wasting ammo" in bleak economic times. Could I have done as well in the field next to them? Probably not, .

My biggest influence though comes from my Uncle first, the man who really introduced me to hunting, and social communities secondly. Sites such as this have moulded my thought processes more than any single thing up to now.

Burns you really ought to write a book perhaps named " Astonishing Tales of Bedding Blocks...."

Sounds fair, but by your explanation JOC had some degree of influence if only to add validation to your opinions.

Anyway just take a note from my playbook and error on the side of modesty. Such a tactic has served me well and I would bet not more than half the members here think I am a pompous ass.



If anyone could write that book it would be me.

When I was a teenager, I was an avid rifle-guy; Jack was my go to reading each month and I was heavily influenced by him - except for the 270 Win; I loved the 30-06.

John
Let me clarify and then I'll drop it.
1. I never heard on O'Connor until that G& A publication after his death.
2. Most of the cartidges in that publication, I had already used.
3. I had formed some opinion of them through that first hand experience.
4. By coincidence, I read that he had similar views to mine based on his experience.

It is as simple as that and there was no pomposity stated or implied by myself though we are back that that internet interpretation again.
JW

Glad to find someone else who found it a difficult read - pictures apparently thrown in at random and definitely a stream-of-consciousness style.

Being born in 1971, and in a Philly Suburb, JOC and Keith were before my time. I read a lot of stuff written by Bob Milek and Finn Aagard, enough of each to have been influenced by them. In hunting style and gun tastes...... And now I live on the opposite side of the Bighorns from where Milek did.but its only about 130 miles or so!!!!!!!!