Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Why Use Large Bore For Deer?

Ever shot a Gibbs or Tryon rifle Overkill ?
Can you buy one from walmart ?

While they are very good target rifles , in the hands of an everyday shooter , trying to use them for a hunting gun , frankly they are no better then anything else .
Those target matches , well for the most part your not talking about snap shooting or for that mater a hunters definition of taking careful aim
Add into that , getting the accuracy that your insinuating , takes a lot of practice, knowledge matched with a heavy long range shooting discipline.

Then you have to also accept that the Gibbs is also a side lock ignition . Completely exposed to the weather and for the most part firing at low velocity a heavy grain bullet using open sights or depending on the shooter a peep . Add in a set of target sights , which create their own complications.

Even in the heyday of the Gibbs rifle when a few used it to hunt with , they were hunting for the most part un spooked animals in large concentrations. So basically they could set up on a hill and shoot most all day at the same group of animals.
that�s not going to happen today
While the Gibbs would be legal here in the .451 , for deer , if you dropped the bullet under .010 of bore , it would not .
So lets see
Exposed ignition vs. closed .
#11 cap vs. 209 primer
Creedmoor sights vs. variable scope
Loading lose powder ,a conical , with a paper patch , using a false muzzle vs. loading pellets or smokeless powder a jacked bullet in a plastic sabot .

Now this one is tongue and cheek , LOL
Years of dedicated shooting and l earning the long range muzzle loading discipline vs. a 12.99 ramby faykmain shooting book from the local Walbelas

Then actualy thinking about taking a shot at 400 yards + , in the wind , rain , snow
Ya I can see you point , wow , same thing isn�t it . Cant see why anyone would think there was a difference . So very glad you brought it up , very worthy example

My MK85 is not a enclosed breach. It has an exposed breach and a peep sight. What makes it so different. Ive never shot a Gibbs but ive shot a White Sporting rifle enough times to know its just as effective as many inlines. Probably more accurate than most.

Lead seems to kill no matter how the ignition is laid out. The vast majority of deer around here are killed within ranges the ignition type or powder used make little difference.

No matter how you try to spin it, traditionalist are typically hypocrites while they run around in Under Armor, Thinsulate and carry a smartphone or GPS while hunting.

As i said ive seen it far too often.

Claiming to be a traditionalist doesn't make you one. Perhaps the true traditionalist doesn't do anything on your list.

The funny part is, i hunt and tag out usually before our muzzleloader season and i never complain about the CF guys advantage. I have no problem with the guys that can use CF pistols during the muzzleloader season.

When they offer a season for MLs before firearms season, i would have no problem if it prohibited 209 primers, sabots and a enclosed breach.

Anything to knock the bow hunters lengthy seasons down a notch would be a good laugh.

You can use a CF pistol during ML season? You sure couldn't in my state. You can't even use one to finish off an animal after you shoot it with a ML.

What state are you from?

Yep, it started a few years ago. You can even use a T/C Encore in 7mm-08 during our "muzzleloader" season.

You can not use a CF pistol though during the conservation area management ML hunts. Those are ML only and traditional ML only. Depends on the area you apply to hunt.

While the 85 my not be , many others are just as I said .
Would you like to add other designs to you list or would you be willing to restrict to that comparison and never talk about it again ?
In that lays Imo the real issue . As long as we hold to rules that restrict to an even comparison , where is the problem .
But it doesn�t stay that way as within a year or two of making a compromise, the boundaries are pushed . Which then again causes a separation with the modern shooters wanting more and the traditional folks wanting to restrict or hold the line . that�s just the way of it .
Does it really make a difference as to what you wear ?
Is there a state somewhere which requires primitive cloths ?
So why the crying about it ?

The real issue Overkill is that the some folks want to be accepted to the point the demand and force that acceptance .
Laws can change all they want but that doesn�t mean your accepted

I seriously doubt that�s ever going to happen between traditional folks and the modern type shooter even if every law in the land ends up allowing every bell an whistle of the modern movement.
Now folks can say that�s not the case . But frankly I don�t see the issue you rise as being any different then someone with a 2006 4 cylinder rice burner , crying because they are not aloud to be part of a muscle car show or group .
Its not hard to relate the same issue just about everywhere one looks today . Our whole country is divided on just about every subject
Its just not going to change as there is to big a difference in reasoning between the two groups

So im sorry if you feel bent because you feel folks accept a rifle like a gibbs but wont accept a 85.
I wonder , have you ever thought that maybe the reason those folks accept one but not the other maybe very close to the reason why others would chose the 85 over the gibbs ?

Myself a I personally don�t care one way or the other . For us here , the time has passed . IMO it wont be long IMO before there is no dedicated muzzle loading season at all . The things will start all over again .

So im not going to get dragged into a modern vs. traditional argument with you because it will only end someone saying; we all should support every type of shooting we can or lose them all .
Yep agreed . Problem is that support is normally defined only in one direction

But back to the original question . I own an Stutzer that shoots a 10mm conical . It was very capable in its day . Still should be . But even though it meets all the regulations, its to small of a caliber to use for big game hunting here is it accurate at long range ,,, yep but so is my flintlock shooting a RB .
But what I can do with that rifle at targets is a completely different thing then what I can do or would attempt to do while hunting .
But again , the smaller cal rifles are out there and can be remade in eather traditional or Modern , if a person has a want .
but i would make sure your rules allow for them if you intend to use them for big game . which again IMO they are capable of taking

Why Use Large Bore For Deer?

They tend to run less. In fact, none of the whitetails hit with my .54 cal took another step at all.

Why not?

I'm one of those who feel that muzzle loader season should be kept traditional.

I apply for all kinds of center fire licenses and I hunt with center fire calibers.

But when I hunt with a muzzle loader, I don't want to compete with people shooting 300 yards with their in-line non black powder sabotted garbage.

Why would a person want to have a muzlle loader that shot like a center fire other than to have an unfair advantage.

I don't want to shoot my center fire in archery season and I don't want to use a cross bow in archery season.

The answer is ...




















Wait for it ...


























Just to pizz off people like you.

GFY

To piss center fire people off of course!

There's always low life scum that try to get advantage over others, isn't there?

Well, this has certainly been a charming discussion. Never ceases to amaze what a tremendous speed bump arrogance can be.

After reading all this I'm wondering if I should just go slit my wrists. After all, isn't a muzzle loading cartridge rifle sort of an inline. I guess, I dunno, maybe? I admit to owning a round ball flint lock as well. Jesus, I'm so phuocin' confused about my self image...

If someone isn't manufacturing a product to suit one's needs, I'd guess there isn't a market for it, or it hasn't been invented. That either makes one a moron or a genius, not sure which. Maybe time will tell.

Maybe my muzzle loader can beat up your muzzle loader? Who knows?

Who cares?

You did that offhand, right?

nope load development off the rest in the pic of course. But I did do it from 100 yards with an open sight muzzy shooting patched round ball. Almost gives my scoped inline a run for the money!

These statements are kinda contradictory. Crossbows will NOT take animals as far away compund bows. The faster, but lighter bolts shed energy faster.

I am assuming you do use a compound bow though, and not a recurve?

Either way, it doesn't matter. I have never looked at what I hunt with as an advantage or disadvantage in regard to what others use. I don't feel I "compete" with other hunters. I use what I feel like using. That's it. MLs, handguns, crossbows, bows, and CF rifles all get used. I couldn't care less about what someone else chooses, provided they are proficient....JMO

Well, I'm just not that good I reckon. I did do this awhile back with the flinter, offhand on my hind legs at 50 yards. Is it legal to shoot a flinter off a bag rest?



Upper splash, left target....I forgot how light the set is on the first shot. My bad...

Not to shabby!

I shot this one with my flinter at 40 yards with a single shot to the head. That cold late evening will always stay in my mind! My first year with a flinter.

He looks all wore out.

Why aren't you smiling?

Nice buck, neat tacks on the stock.