Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Barnes or Accubond **Update**

Well, I hope not to offend anyone who are die hard Accubond fans...but I gonna have to stick w/ the TTSX's out of my 300 wsm.

A while back I was wondering what to expect using a 165gr Accubond on moose. In some areas that I hunt, the terrain can get very thick. I wanted a bullet that would leave a good blood trail, so I thought I would try the Accubond.

On Sept 19th my hunting partner shot a 51" bull from across the slough we were hunting. The shot was about 270ish yds away. We saw the bull fall in chest high weeds. We got in the boat and headed our way to him. Once there, he was gone. Suddnenly we heard him next to the tree line about 100 yds away. One shot to the neck and he was done. Since it was nearing the end of the day and we had a boat ride back to camp, we just rolled the guts out, flipped him on his back and let him stay until the next morning.

The next morning we rode back to him and started cleaning, sawing, breaking bones....another bull heard these sounds and came in to fight. He was across the slough from where my friend had shot the previous evening. I grabbed my rifle, went to the edge of the water and shot him at about 200yds. He lifted his front leg and started to walk directly away from me. I shot once more and thought I had misssed. Found out I just skinned him.

We got in the boat and found that he bedded about 60 yds away.. A shot to the back of the head and he was dispatched.

When I started skinning him, I noticed that the front shoulder was very deep, purple, blue, and red...Upon further inspection, I did not see where the bullet made it past that shoulder at all.I did not find the bullet, but it was not a pass through. I would not believe that one small bullet made such a mess out of the shoulder. If you have been around a moose, you know they have huge shoulders. Almost the entire shoulder was wasted.

I think I may have used too light of an Accubond and if maybe i had used a 180 or 200 gr bullet, it would have penetrated and behaved better.

So I think that in the Bigger Game area, I will stick to the 168gr TTSX's

I have a picture of the moose before skinning if somene would like to see it.

Send me your addy and I will send it to you.

Steve

Your experience mirrors my very limited Accubomb experience...

I have taken 14 big game animals with 180 gr. Accubonds, therefore being a true believer. I am not a spokes person for Nosler, but they work for me. I have yet to try Barnes in my 300WSM. I am interested to try them in my 260AI for african plains game animals. Will see next April when we travel to RSA for our 3rd trip to the "Dark Continent". MTG

It is quite possible that if I had used a 180 gr, I may have gotten a better experience. I have a friend of mine that uses 300 gr AB's and he said he does not have the issue I wrote about at all.

I have had excellent luck with the accubonds both 150 grain and 165 grain. However, my rifle is a 308 Win and muzzle velocity is 2700 fps at best. Not a lot of stress on the bullet compared to the velocity out of magnum

Those TTSX's open pretty wide compared to most hunting bullets. They don't penetrate as much as you might think.

200 Partitions would have been my choice.

I've shot several elk and several deer with 180 gr AB's out of a 300 WSM. My experience has been that they destroy way too much meat. Every time the near side will be hashed, even before the bullet hits bone. I hunt to fill the freezer, not feed the coyotes.

I couldn't tell much difference in accubonfs and BT's , I shoot TTSX's in several guns . 168's in a 308 don't penetrate as much as you think ?? That's funny

Yeah, it is funny isn't it.

Yep the TTSX's get through. My experience with them on elk is an example of two, a cow at 272yds with a 140gr from a 280rem-in at the base of the neck, recovered at the tip of the rear loin and a bull at 476yds with a 210gr from a .338wm-in high behind the left shoulder and out the center of the right ham.

I've shot a fair number of both deer and antelope with 180 AB's and 180 TTSX's from the same rifle (.300 wm) and my take on it is the AB's do a great job but open quickly and the wound channel tends to be larger. Thant being said I've yet to recover a 180 AB, but I've never recovered a 180 TTSX either. Both great bullets, both very accurate but for me on large game and where the shot angle may not be the best, Barnes get the nod.

The big difference is the BT's are more accurate, and over 3k the accubonds hold together better.

My experience of killing animals is two bears and 12 deer.

I killed both bears with a 30-06. One with a 150 TTSX and one with a 168 TSX. Both shots were within 75 yards. One broadside and one head on on all fours. The broadside was a total passthrough. The head on shot stopped the bullet after penetrating nearly 5 1/2 feet of bear. I found the bullet right next to the anus as i was gutting him. 100% weight retention. No meat loss with either animal.

The deer have been a mixed bag of bullets from the 150 Nosler Accubond and Ballistic Tip, Hornady SPI in 150 grain, one with a 180 Hornady SPI, and one with 158 Hornady XTPs out of my .357.

The meat loss with all the above bullets save the XTP was substantial considering the 100 pound deer we have around here. I switched to the Barnes TSX and TTSX in 168 grain and found the accuracy to be the same and the teminal performance to be better and more importantly, the meat loss is a LOT less. Small ring of bad meat on entry and exit, and thats it. Internals totally demolished, but i dont eat the guts.

FWIW.

And lots of broken bones!

Yeah, there is that too....

I think it is more of a case of using light for caliber bullets for larger game. Call me Elmer but a 180 or 200 grain projectile of almost any make I think would have worked out differently.

With Mono's light is fine but does not carry over to even bonded cup and core bullets. I would call the 165 Accubond a deer bullet or Deer/Elk bullet. I sort of look at the length of the bullet when comparing a Mono to a more conventional bullet.

A 165 mono is very roughly equivalent to a 180 jacket & core type bullet IMHO.

But congrats even if you ended up with a three legged Moose.

But congrats even if you ended up with a three legged Moose.

^^^ Now that's Funny!

Thank you.

Steve, Congrat's on your moose!

From a puny 338-06 with 210 ttsx, at about 125 yards, mine broke a 50 inch bulls neck, through the opposite shoulder on the way out, and caught by the skin.

Not bad penetration on something over 1000 pounds and from that small of a round.

TTSX do fine for us and I've actually yet to have an issue with an Barnes bullet.

I can't say the same for the others. All of the others. I'm sure the Barnes day will come though sooner or later.

I'll take a barnes over a partition any day if I have the choice.

RE 165 non mono for a 300 mag... thats just a bad choice really. Even a 180 partition would not hold togetehr like a ligher barnes.

I've used a lot of X varieties on a lot of critters and only watched a small handful of Accubombs used. I have yet to see a pass-through with an Accu-bomb and that includes 300gr 375s shot broadside at bears.

I have personally put quite a few 270gr Xs lengthwise through big bears without catching a single one.

To this day the only X bullets that I have seen fail to fully penetrate were 80gr TTSX in the 25-06 in moose and a deer, lengthwise. I have seen the little things go through a LOT of bone and still get away...

Moose are often considered easy to kill and I won't argue that that isn't generally true. However some people seem to think they are easy targets as far as penetration goes and in that they're mistaken. While I have driven Interlocks, NBTs, Corelokts, and Gamekings through various moose - as well as Partitions and copper slugs, I have also caught various Barnes bullets in several moose as well as Grand Slams, A-Frames, Partitions, Gamekings, Interlocks, Ballistic tips, and Corelokts in others.

Plenty of projectiles can kill moose - pretty much anything 30 caliber can. Bullet selection for big tough animals should favor what will kill well versus what can (but may include a rodeo).

BTW, the two messiest moose kills I've been involved with included a Corelokt on one and a Barnes X on another. (If you don't get the heart shut down quickly, there will be lots of blood in the bullet path).

I have killed 20 or so head of game with X bullets. With one exception, all were complete pass-throughs. I killed a mulie buck where the 165 grain bullet traveled about 30" of muscle the length of the neck and into the backstrap- breaking the spine. I found that bullet. It's the only one. Too bad I can't get them to shoot for beans anymore. I quit trying.

I have just one experience with a rifle that suddenly decided it did not like X bullets. Every other rifle I have used them in was very fond of them right away. They are the only bullets I shoot these days in big game rifles I actually hunt with.

I still have hundreds of pounds of C&C bullets destined for being buried in a range berm...

I love the ttsx. Accuracy, penetration, and drt's are common.

I do like accubonds to, but as others have suggested, id go heavier with them than I would ttsx.

If you intend to eat the critter, a TTSX will leave more edible meat...

Art, you are correct. Never had any substantial wasted meat with a TTSX, including shoulder shot critters.

I hit a blacktail deer with a ttsx from a 250 ackley and I lost lots of meat. It was a running shot, which is the norm for me and blacktail bucks. Took out the front shoulders.

I have had my share of bloodshot meat with every type of bullet. X bullets a little less trouble than most. I would have to say that a 500 grain cast bullet in 458 is pretty easy on meat too.

I have not found a sub 1.5 MOA load since Barnes abandoned the original flat base X bullet. I tried several boxes of the blue coated bullets- several free boxes from Barnes and they wouldn't shoot very good for me. I have a box of 168 TSX that I am loading for a 300 Winchester right now. Headed to the range in about 10 minutes. Hopefully, I will see some improvement.

I don't and won't use an X bullet smaller than 7mm myself. I have seen several fail to expand in the smaller diameters but never in the 7mm and up sizes. I will agree that the medium sized ones are utterly reliable, just not particularly accurate in my rifles.

I have some in 458 but not sure what I would use them for.

Dennis what powder are you loading in the 300wm?

I am trying H4831 and R22. I used Magpro with the 200 Bergers but stopping trying to shoot them.

I had some decent success with the 168s and R22 this morning. I guess this rifle is just not a shooter and I will have to settle for what it is.

I'm using H4831sc behind 168ttsx's .050 off in Win brass with great results, RL22 gave good groups also @.010 off , IMR 4831 is another one I've had good results with behind the 168's ...H4831sc is what i have settled on with this bullet for now!

You using a factory or custom rifle?

Curious if you guys ever have a concern with the mono metal bullets penetrating through and hitting something else behind the animal. Antelope and Elk travel in herds. Ever been concerned about them passing through an antelope and hitting a few others behind causing injury?

I was planning to use a general purpose Barnes TTSX load I developed for my 280AI; 150 gr. but someone alerted me to this concern.

I'm developing a load for a 140 gr Accubond as a result of that concern. That and I like the idea of a flatter shooting bullet out of this rifle for the smaller game species of big game.

I'm going to try 150 TTSXs with my AI. Too accurate not to.

Taco280AI - I'm getting excellent accuracy out of mine. 0.5 MOR or less (my shooting skills are a factor beyond that level!) behind 56.5 gr of IMR7828SSC with Nosler brass 0.060" off the lands.

Are you planning to use it for antelope or something else?

Duplicate

I would suggest caribou are the ultimate herd animal in NA and we use the TTSX almost exclusively... but if you listen to the numbers of folks claiming they always get pass-throughs with the NPT you have to realize any bullet can go all the way through more than one critter.

You should only shoot when the situation allows it...

Pass throughs are a big concern with Barnes type bullets. Don't shoot when there is another behind. Sometimes though, you can't help what happens. I shot a spike bullet at 20 yards through the head with a 165 grain X bullet from my 300 Wby. Muzzle velocity was 3450 or so. I had a clear path in front of and behind. I took the head shot because it was 20 yds and I had a ponderosa pine rest. Snuck up on an entire herd sleeping and waited until they woke up and milled around.
At the shot, the bull dropped of course and I walked over there as the rest of them scattered (about 10 head). I looked up on a little hill behind where they had been dozing and saw a calf up there about 20 yards behind the main bunch that I couldn't see from my original vantage point. I was now standing over the dead spike as the calf came off the hill and jumped on top of the spike. I could see a little blood on the calf's shoulder and my heart sunk.

I grabbed him (generic use of him) and pulled him to his feet. I then got behind him and an pushed him, trying to get him to leave. My thoughts were that nobody would ever believe I am trying to pull a calf elk along!. I finally put one hand under his neck and the other lower on his hind legs like you see the guys do when the load a recalcitrant racehorse into the gates. He got the message and took off, running about 30 yards before doing a nice cartwheel and dying in the snow.

I went up the hill where he had been standing and found blood in the snow, dug around a little and found where the bullet had gone into the ground.

Only thing I can figure is that the bullet ricocheted off the base of the antler and went up the hill at an odd angle and hit the calf that was not visible under the tree canopy and at least 20' higher than my field of view through the 2X scope. I don't think any other bullet - at that time- would have done this.

I never tried a head shot again after this either! I killed a lot of elk with the 165 grain X bullet and only quit when I got interested in experimenting with other bullets and the new incarnation would not shoot in my rifles.

It is a Remington 700 XCR-II with a Vortex PST 4-16 tactical scope. About as high end as you can get at Sportsman's whorehouse. Belongs to my buddy and he had trouble with it. I got a couple of good groups today so I will refine seating depth tomorrow and see if it is ready to hunt.

Of course, I would never shoot at an animal with another one directly behind. Not unless you want to possibly wound or kill 2 animals with one shot.

Last Fall I had to wait a minute before shooting a mule deer buck. Tall sagebrush and he was with two does. I could see heads but not all 3 bodies.

Ended up shooting him in the shoulder when I was fairly certain the doe was clear(243 Win/90 grain target bullet, didn't exit).


Several years ago a pronghorn buck caught a 150 Partition/300 WSM, broadside shoulder shot(bullet was a pancake on the off side). Bullet length is key I guess with Partition(or maybe Accubond).

Only TTSX load I've tried was 56.5 IMR4350 around 2950 from a 24" which was under half MOA. Thinking of my deer/elk/everything load.

I have shot quite a few critters with the Partitions and have a large pile of recovered bullets from them... maybe 40...

Considering the number of critters I have shot with the X varieties I am still waiting to catch my first one in an animal I shot. Riley has quite a few more than I do because he is shooting little bullets at very big, hard game...

Like Art, I had a hard time catching a Barnes. I have one and it went lengthwise. I haven't used as many Partitions but I don't have any of those yet either. The 1/2 dozen I have used were all pass throughs too. I have yet to shoot an elk with a Partition though.

I have had great results with Accubonds and both deer and elk. Have two that I've recovered, one from a deer and one from an elk. Don't know the weights, but they did mushroom and hold together nicely. Am sure they dropped weight as designed, just don't know how much.

I have never used Accubonds in my 300 WSM, but this is the 180 gr TTSX that was laying against the skin on the off side of this years Wyo elk.





With this kind of performace, I probably will never switch to Accubonds in the short mag.

BTW, this was the second consecutive year, with the same results. from the TTSX.

donsm70

With smaller animals any bullet has that potential. I can think of several doubles I've had with caribou (where we have a 5/day limit) where a second animal is not much concern other than the possibility of an ugly wounding shot.

One such case happened for me when I stuck a large bull with a 100 Corelokt in 6mm. The pass-through struck a cow in the jaw and she took off like she had a fire under her tail until I gave her another, more lethal, shot.

I have also doubled with the 200 NBT in a 340; a 100 XFB in 7mm-08; a 150 XFB in 30-06 (which passed through both); and watched my son tag two reindeer with one 150 grain Interlock (contract over-run) with his 280.

I think I only ever caught one 100 Sierra Pro-Hunter in my 6 while killing several dozen caribou with it; never doubled, but the potential was probably there. I also never caught a 140 XFB in 7mm-08, also without doubling, so it also could have. (I did catch a 120 TSX in 7mm-08 the first time out with them...go figure!)

I have bullets of every flavor I've collected from moose- from Interlocks and Gamekings, to Partitions, A-Frames, and Grand Slams, as well as several X iterations of .338, .358 and .375. I've also gotten pass-throughs on moose with everything from NBTs and Core-lokts through Fail-Safes and XFBs so you always need to be aware with any of them.

That's an eye opener for me. Thanks for the info.

FWIW Greenbrier, I used the 165 TSX in a 300 WSM exclusively. I never recovered a single bullet. All three of these animals were killed inside a 60 day span with a 165 TSX in my 300 WSM and none of them went 50 ft. Small to big animals, it just seemed perfect and very little meat damage. My non scientific opinion is that the TSX's shine when pushed fast in speedy calibers, were as an accubond probably works great when pushed in either slightly slower calibers or when heavy for cal bullets are used.

What a great looking trio of animals....sure wish I had a freezer full of sitkas!

Stuff does happen as the saying goes but I'd not say you used the wrong bullet necessarily but the wrong bullet-cartridge combo. In the any of the big thirties I probably would have felt more comfortable with the 180-grain AB at least for hunting moose. And the 200-grain would have gotten strong consideration; that is if I'd chosen to use an AB at all.

I have gone from the "X", to the TSX, and now to the TTSX. I had the now well known pressure problems with the X but the later two have been both very accurate in my rifles and of the three I've caught showed nearly a hundred percent weight retention and very quick kills.

Two were 270-grain TSXs from a 375; one was stopped by a very stout mare zebra at about a hundred yards after drilling both scapula. It started out at about 2750 fps but mushroomed completely, trampolining against the off-side hide. Another hit a small branch about twenty-five yards in front of a waterbuck but remained on course but flying side-ways. It coursed through his chest that way and was also seen as "a knuckle" protruding under the off-side hide.

The last took a big bodied mule deer buck at the base of the throat at about a hundred yards as he was facing head-on. It was found near the anus on dressing and was a grain or a couple less from the original 140 grains; this was at 3000 fps mv out of a 284 Win.

There are roughly twenty-some I didn't catch or find but I've not experienced any blood-shot meat nor have I seen evidence of any not opening or "penciling through." Even the big NE Sandhills whitetail I took at five hundred yards with the 284 and this time with the 150-grain TTSX, showed bullet expansion on a broadside chest shot. If I were to see "penciling through," I would have almost expected it on that shot.

They have been the most accurate bullets in the three rifles I've shot them the most in--a 375, a 30/06, and the 284. In fact the smallest group I've shot with an above-thirty caliber cartridge was with that 270-grain TSX in my 375 using H4350. As mentioned It runs around 2750 fps. That combo resulted in a three-shot, one hundred yard group of .38".

I have found I like the 165-168 weights in the '06; the 270 TSX shoots wonderfully out of my 375 but I want to try the 250-gr TTSX for my presumed moose hunt next year. And the 140-grain does all I need out of the little 7mm.

Edit: The two 375s to the left and the 284 at right. The 375 270-grain went to .820" and the 7mm 140-grain to .620" after four and a half feet or so of mule deer innards. I am sure the 375 in the middle would have been long gone had it not traversed the water buck (like a small cow elk) sideways. It's hard to beat that for performance and dependability.

53gr triple shock found just inside the hide of a mature mulie.

It's the one one I've recovery it retained 100%. Can you imagine those blades twisting through your body.







I also use acubondacubond on deer and don't expect them to hold togethere. I've found prices but never a mushroomed intact bullet. They also kill very well.

I've shot a number of elk with 180 AB's in a 300 WSM. I've had several come apart upon entry. If they hold together, they'll penetrate very well but they don't always hold together. The amount of destroyed meat on the near side is always very large, even if it doesn't hit bone.

I'm not saying the AB will never fall apart, but I haven't seen it happen yet on probably 60 head of big game. My buddy stumbled into a big mule deer buck........

[img:left][/img]

and killed him at a grand distance of 30 yards, with a 7STW and 140 AB's sizzling along at 3300fps upon impact (according to jbm anyway). Bullet entered rear ham, and was found under skin on off shoulder, and retained almost 65% of it's weight. Couldn't ask for much better performance, as the buck dropped like the proverbial rock.

[img:left][/img]

There was a period maybe a year after AccuBonds were first produced when some faulty bullets went out. Demand was very high, and the problem was traced to one person on the assembly line who tried to speed up the process, resulting in unbonded bullets. Nosler recalled as many as they could, but some still got out there, and may even turn up now and then. Much of the �AccuBomb� reputation occurred because of those bullets, because of course the people who used them complained a lot.

My experience with AB�s is probably more extensive than JG�s, and runs from 140 .270�s at 3200+ fps to 260-grain .375�s at 2800. Some of it occurred in 2007 when I went on a big cull hunt in South Africa where over 180 animals were taken by several American hunters. At the time both AB�s and Barnes TSX�s were the hot new bullets, and probably 90% of the hunters used one or the other, and many used both. There was only one �failure� among the AccuBond�s, when a 180-grain from a .300 Winchester Magnum hit a huge eland right in the shoulder joint and didn�t penetrate much beyond the near lung, but the bull was hurt enough to not go far, and a second bullet in the same area soon brought it down. Among others, I saw a big blue wildebeest bull, considered perhaps the toughest of African animals, drop within 75 yards after taking a 140 7mm from a 7-08 behind the shoulder.

The least percentage of retained weight I�ve seen was a 140 .270 that went into a bull caribou�s spine lengthwise, after a frontal shot, and was recovered at the rear of the ribs, weighing 75 grains. The caribou, of course, dropped right there.

AccuBonds are not TSX�s, or E-Tips or any other monolithic bullet, and to expect them to perform like one is unrealistic. But if you pick the right one for the job, which in my experience would be a little heavier than a TSX of the same caliber, especially in faster cartridges, then they�ll perform very well. One of the more successful trophy elk hunters in this part of Montana uses a .300 Rum with 200-grain AccuBonds, because they penetrate great, and drift in the wind less than lighter bullets with less-sleek profiles. He hardly recovers any, and then only on severely angling shots. But if you want to run lighter bullets at higher speed, then no doubt a monolithic is the way to go.

Great info MD. Thanks.

I have and have shot several Accubond loads and are very intrigued by their incredible flight characteristics. I shot my .375 Wby with 260gr ABs at a muddy berm several times when chronographing the bullet at a tight average of 2,974fps. It blew large holes in the side of the muddy berm, which generated awes and gasps from the others at the range at the time. I assume that would kill almost anything that lives with a decent shot. I had perfect success with the same rifle with a 300gr NP moving at about 2,550fps impact velocity on a 9�-2� brown bear. If the NP and AB are fairly similar in results, both are very effective in that velocity range to be sure. And my view is that in the sub-2,800fps velocity range, both the NP and AB might be the best thing going.

However, this TTSX 225gr load (3,160fps MV; 3,050fps imact) went through both front quarters, and much bone, of a large AK moose and ended up just under the far left front quarter hide:





I shot the same moose within a few seconds later twice with the same TTSX loads and they both exited.

I have no reason to know or believe that the excellent Nosler bullets would not have done as well or better, but at the 3,000+fps range, I find it hard to believe that, on large game, anything would do better than the TTSX in terms of penetration and expansion. The picture above of the 3,300fps AB makes me think that, while it may work fine at that velocity, the Barnes mono-metal bullets might be a bit more reliable at that velocity. JMO.