Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Winchester Customer Service For Poor Accuracy?

Has anyone ever contacted winchester over a rifle that just didn't shoot like it should?

I have tried multiple types of factory ammo and I'm lucky if I can get this thing to do better than 2" at 100 yards and some stuff was as bad as 4-5".

I was starting to question my ability but I shoot my 300 wsm and 30-06 sub moa regularly when I do my part.

All I've ever done with them is order some SS hex head action screws and they were prompt and courteous about it?

What checks have you done as far as troubleshooting besides different brands of ammo?

Mike

I sent a WSSM back for a customer a while back that shot as you describe. They promptly sent us a list to have him choose a rifle from as a replacement. He's much happier with his 25-06 extreme weather. That's great customer service considering the WSSM was a New Haven gun and they don't make them anymore.
Another guy a couple years ago with a 325wsm featherweight that shot 3" groups received a new barrel and test targets.

Give them a call, I think they'll treat you right.

All I've really done is check the torque values on the action screws and verified that everything is good to go with the scope mounts.

Any suggestions beyond that?

Not Just for Kimbers....


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8495340/1

David

It's funny that you mention his replacement rifle was an extreme weather.

The rifle I am having trouble with is an extreme weather in 7mm-08.

2" at 100yds is not really that bad for a factory rifle, in fact it's pretty darn good. I doubt there is much they would do for you on it.

Heck I paid over $3K for an FNA3G that was gaurenteed to shoot .5MOA, it even came with a nice target with a .2" group shot on it. This gun wouldn't shoot better than 6". I sent it in, they sent it back with another tiny little target basically saying it must be me. Still not better than 6" so I tracked down the guy at GAP that supposedly shot the target and signed it. Problem is he kept records and he never shot that rifle! After bringing that up to FN they agreed to replace the rifle. 18 months, yes 18 months!, later they finally sent my replacement rifle. And it shoots tiny little groups finally.

This isn't the first FN BACO I've seen like this. Good luck.

EW doesn't mean it's going to be accurate. My buddy had one chambered for 300 wsm and it averaged 3.5" with premium factory ammo. If I remember correctly, he tried the custom HSM, Barnes Vortex, Hornady custom, federal premium and some other $65.00+/box ammo I'd never buy. Nothing worked... Send it back. Let Winchester deal with it..

I have to respectfully disagree. Nearly every rifle I have ever owned shot moa or damn near with little to no tinkering.

I will be calling Winchester tomorrow with hopes that they will agree to make it right. I bought this rifle last December and think I've given it enough of a chance to prove itself.

They have a 1 moa 3 shot group guarantee if you shoot premium ammo. If it's shooting 3.5" average, I'd send it back..

Just because it's an EW doesn't mean it won't shoot either. I work at a Winchester service center and IME they take pretty good care of problem guns. I'm not sure why guys come down so hard on the FN guns, no they aren't pre64s but in my experience they are a damn sight better than the classics that everybody gets so giddy over these days. I've seen so many more SS classics with crap bbls right out the gate it isn't even funny, have one in the back of my truck I use as a jack handle. I took two 300wm classic takeoff barrels on a hunting trip one year to use as stakes to hold my cook tent down in the wind.

To the op, give them a call and a chance, I bet they'll make it right.

I have never owned a "factory rifle" that I could not get to shoot under 2" at 100 yards...and I've owned quite a few.

Its the trigger Kid. Plain and simple. There are just some things people won't forgive.

That's kind of forgivable. I actually really like mine as it's adjusted down to 2 3/8 pounds with the ernie the gunsmith spring in it. My rifle also has an EW tube on it. However, it did get it's azz handed to it the other day by both the classic stainless 7mm rem mag and the older pre 64 30-06 fwt. The unforgivable aspect to the new Winchester model 70 is the fact it is made in Portugal. That's despicable and far worse than the MOA trigger could ever be..

Maybe I missed reading it, but did you try a different scope just to confirm that it is the rifle?

Once they slide down the slippey slope of changing the trigger...there is no end to the fall. Shameless.

I had a M70 in .338 that must have been made in Africa by cannibals! The sumbeech wouldn't hit due east!

When I got finished with it.....it was excellent!

Well, just had a less than pleasant call with winchester. The representative told me that their spec on the gun is only 1.5 moa and when I tried to tell him that the website said different he told me I was misunderstanding the text and that I must have been looking at the m.o.a. trigger system.

He then told me I could send it in on my own dime and that they would shoot it but if they don't see any problems they would just send it back.

Not happy.

There is nothing wrong with something being put together in Portugal. Browning had stuff assembled there for years. FN also has assembly/manufacturing plant in SC USA where they started making machine guns in 1970s. The SC plant is still making small arms for the military. One might ask themselves what does South Carolina have on Portugal with exception of funny speaking Anglophiles.

I think some M70 purists don't know the difference between "made" and "assembled".

Give a call back and either talk to a different representative or if you get the same one, and the same story, then demand to speak to a supervisor. If that supervisor does not provide satisfaction go further up the food chain. Don't settle for an answer from just whoever answers the phone, also get their name, title, etc and document every call.

It may help if you explain that if they do not fix the issue then you will be posting it on one of the largest forums with literally thousands of members. That should make them re-think their attitude.

I an issue with a target scope a couple of years ago after 3 returns and it still not being fixed I asked for a new or different scope, they refused. I mentioned that I would be posting my issues with them on a benchrest forum and within a week I had a new scope in my hands.

drover

I just read my Winchester catalog and it says "you can 'expect' moa accuracy " but it stops short of a guarantee.

Yea, i caught that too

p.s. - to my earlier reply.

A suggestion for when you talk to the rep at customer service, or preferably someone further up the ladder.

Let them know that if this issue is not resolved to your satisfaction then you will post your experience on your social media accounts. It really doesn't matter if you don't have one, or do not really intend to, they don't know that. What they do know is that social media has the power to reach millions of people and they know that one bad message can cost them many thousands of dollars, much more than the small amount it would cost to fix the issue.

"you can expect" is a tacit implication of a guarantee. They may try to wiggle on it but it is still a guarantee.

drover

Just picked up an all weather extreme. With the short magazine length, I can seat my bullets 240 thousands off the lands. Winchester said it was perfectly normal. Worst money I've ever spent on a rifle. Their costumer service isn't worth talking to.

Just tried again but they close earlier than I expected. Hopefully I will get a chance tomorrow while they are open.



BSA,

What did your buddy end up doing with his extreme weather?

TheKid,

Am I out of line in believing that winchester should be proving me with a shipping label to return the gun?

He put it in the back of the safe and started using his pre 64 model 70 308 fwt again. True story.

"Am I out of line in believing that winchester should be proving me with a shipping label to return the gun?"

NO.

You have an expectation that the rifle they produce should be reasonably accurate with reputable factory ammunition.

If it is not, let them prove that it is.

I'm not sure what the status of Remington since the sell out, but, Remington had a two year guarantee. It was pretty much no questions asked. You call in the serial number--they send you a label--that simple.

What chambering? Keep in mind that the S/A M70s are built for cartridges under 3" in OAL. Some of the rounds that fall into that range have SAAMI specs with long throats..

Weatherby rounds have long freebores and usually shoot very accurately. Just because you can't reach the lands doesn't mean that the rifle may not shoot very well. Quite frankly - the entire accuracy issue lies with the quality of the barrel itself - and most manufacturers have about $50-$75 invested in their barrels (with some exceptions) so you can pretty much figure it's a crap-shoot re: accuracy from rifles made by Rem/Win/Brown...etc.

So I just got off the phone with winchester again with slightly better results.

I think I may have spoken to the same person (stupid me forgot to get a name) but I was much more assertive and finally got him to agree to send me a shipping label.

The representative I spoke to claims that spec on the gun is only 1 3/4" and states that what is listed on the website is "just what could happen if you get lucky".

He then went on to tell me that if they shoot one group that is 1 3/4" they will just box it up and send it back with the target as proof. This rather annoys me because I have been able to produce groups around that size, not consistently but I have done it. Either way I don't think this is an acceptable accuracy spec for a rifle that has an MSRP of nearly $1300.

"Get extreme accuracy under any conditions. The Model 70 Extreme Weather Stainless utilizes a Bell and Carlson� lay-up composite stock that provides a solid feel and features trim and lightweight ergonomics. It has a textured charcoal gray matte finish for rugged good looks and improved grip in adverse conditions."

300 win mag.

I have only tried barnes bullets so far, at different lengths, with 5 inch groups. I'll keep trying, maybe there's a bullet out there it likes.

The bolt is rough, and the brass comes out of the chamber scratched. A sako it ain't.

Just figured I should update this thread a little bit.

I sent the gun back to winchester in November and received an email with a service number and a password so that I could check the status of the gun while in their possession.

I wasn't checking often figuring it would be a while before anything was done with it but last week I checked and it said they would be replacing my rifle.

I am surprised though that I have not at least received a call to inform me of this and maybe to tell me what was wrong with the original.

The status hasn't changed since last week but I'm not really in a rush, just glad to see they are making it right.

I wouldn't expect to ever hear about "what" the problem was with the original.

Glad to see they are replacing your rifle. And thanks for updating the thread with your experience.

Good to know that they are standing by their product.

1 more update to this. I finally received my replacement rifle and to my surprise when I opened the box the new one came with a black bell and carlson stock with gray webbing. I know this is only cosmetic but I do think it gives the rifle a little bit better look.

After checking the Winchester website it appears that this how they are being offered now.

Now if only this weather would break I could take it out and see how it shoots.

Nice!!! That is actually a pretty good customer service story. Any pics of the new rifle?

Here's a quick cell phone pic.

EW 7mm-08, Leupy VX3 2.5-8x36, Talley lows.

Nice!

Post how it shoots when you get to it.

When the weather breaks I will be heading to the range with a buddy of mine to try out this one and my buddies new super grade in 7MM mag.

I'll be sure to report back afterward.

Good luck I have had 2 AW and they shot fine. Its funny for such a crappy rifle they are awful hard to find on the shelves out here I have yet to see a black shadow on a shelfe It took e a couple months to find a FW 7-08.

When it comes to factory firearms, "you pays your money and you take your chances." I have a few factory rifles that shot well out of the box, but damn few. Most needed a little help, either free-floating or bedding the barrel, bedding the action, re-crowning the barrel. If none of these things help, it may be the barrel. Take it to a good smith and have him do two things, scope the bore with a borescope looking for any obvious defects and slug the bore looking for loose and tight spots in the barrel. Ideally, the tightest spot in the barrel should be at the muzzle. If there is a tight spot before the muzzle the smith can either re-crown the barrel at the tight spot, or, if that is too far back, he can try to lap the tight spot out. If neither is successful or possible your only option is to re-barrel the rifle with a match quality barrel from Shilen, Rock Creek, Lilja etc and ask that they taper lap the barrel. Rather than specify a specific barrel length to the gunsmith installing the barrel, just tell him to slug it and to cut the barrel at the tightest spot. If it was properly taper lapped, this should be near the end of the blank.

I shoot custom rimfires in benchrest matches and we deal with these issues all the time. Barrel quality varies and factory barrels are really a crap shoot. Re-barreling with a quality custom barrel is really a pretty cheap fix and you'll be surprised the difference they can make. Most of the time, however, I've been able to improve a factory gun's accuracy with properly bedding the action and re-crowning.

Follow-up, I went back thru all the posts as see that they sent you a replacement. They most likely found a problem with the barrel. Hopefully the replacement meets your accuracy requirements.