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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854 |
tomk......Great post earlier this morning. Anybody looking at it with some good reasoning knows what to expect with an AI'd cartridge.
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065 |
Thanks 257.
Hope its warm there--snowing here, nasty.
Defend the Constitution
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
I think the dislike stems from some 280 AI guys claiming how incredible their round is. Keeping up with the 7 mag, superior to the 270 or 30-06. Things like that. So it's a case of backlash, in a way. The reality is the 280 AI is just fine, but isn't anything special compared to a bunch of other rounds.
Savage 99's case is different, as he is an idiot. Don drives that point home aggressively with every key stroke. I have to agree that when folks start making silly claims about the Ackley that just gets fair minded people to raise the BS flag. For me, it's really about a lot of very small advantages that add up to make the 280 Ackley what it is. - much less case trimming - a small increase in velocity - can build a lighter rifle than the magnum rounds - extra round in the mag box - lots of sleek bullets in 284 - lighter recoil and muzzle blast than the mag rounds it gets compared to - shoots flatter than the 06 - if you compare it to a 270 w/150 gr bullets, the Ackley gets a solid 100 fps gain - and last but not least.......it just looks cool ! ! !
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Headstamp to headstamp doesn't mean schit. Look at 120TTSX in a 280ai and 110TTSX in a 270.
Boolits matter (I stole that line, FYI)
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 80
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 80 |
how much gain would a .280 AI in a 22" barrel? my brother has been thinking of reaming his out to 280AI but his barrel is only 22 inches. He said if he can get 3000 to 3100 FPS with 140 loads out of a 22" barrel then he is happy because he is a chicken when it comes to reloading and can only get 2850 140grain for his 22" 280 REM.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 80
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 80 |
also it is his backpack rifle and he isnt going to put anything longer than a 22 tube on it.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,145 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,145 Likes: 3 |
It's doable.
7SAUM will do 3050 with a 140TTSX pretty easy in 22" tube. The case capacity is nearly identical, depending on brass.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,981
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,981 |
What were your expectations of the Ackley ? I had no expectations, but it showed me nothing (unless extra work to make it feed is something) that a 280 Remington or 7MM Rem Mag couldn't or hasn't provided. Your saying you had problems making a 280AI feed properly....Hmmmmm. I think you need to read what I said again. Read it again and I still read that you was having a problem making a 280AI feed properly. Hmmmm I am surely missing something.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,160
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,160 |
You should be able to get 3000+ fps out of a 22" barrel with 140 grainers no problem. I get 3120 with my favorite 140 grain load with a 23" barrel without pushing it. There is probably a little more there but I have been happy with that load.
.280 AI Fan
"I don't make jokes, I just watch the government and report the facts" Will Rogers
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" Unknown
Trump 2024!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,678 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,678 Likes: 5 |
I've not AI'd any of the several 280's I've owned over the years. There's no doubt of some performance gain, but aside from the possibility of less case trimming, I've just seen no need when the standard case is loaded to it's potential. My current favorite below. MM
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2014
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 80
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 80 |
I've not AI'd any of the several 280's I've owned over the years. There's no doubt of some performance gain, but aside from the possibility of less case trimming, I've just seen no need when the standard case is loaded to it's potential. My current favorite below. MM MM, what is your load and what velocity do you get loading it to full potential? I am curious because I load 280 for my family's 3 guns with 22" barrels and all of them can only push 140's at 2900 MAX with careful increments to 270 pressures. And when loaded to near max 270 pressures, accuracy decreases and I found it more accurate along the velocities of 2790-2850. Now if I can get a "mild and accraute" 280 AI to toss 3000-3100 out of a 22", I'd bite the bullet because that's 200 fps and not reaching near high pressures to do so. Will a deer know the difference at 300 yards (my max), no. But at least I can talk smack to .270 win guys that my 280AI 22" is more efficient. Thanks to some of the guys here for advice, I will tell my brother to make his a 280 ackley.
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,518 Likes: 1 |
I have had three "improved" 280's, two AI and one RCBS. I have also shot a 280 a lot. My 280 with a longer throat, OAL 3.45, is about 30-35 fps behind the "improved" cases at equal pressures. In a hunting rifle, I would use a 22-23" barrel.
The reason the improved cases are more difficult to get to feed as slickly as a standard is because of the reduced body taper. The shoulder angle has nothing to do with that other than most "improveds" have both.
Also the idea that a 280 AI is lighter than a 7 mag is just wrong thinking. Same stock, same barrel, same action...the magnum will be slightly lighter because the chamber removes a little more steel.
I would get the standard built but have the throat extended. Cases and dies are cheaper. Or just get a 270 or a 7RM.
Last edited by RinB; 11/01/14.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”. Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
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I have had three "improved" 280's, two AI and one RCBS. I have also shot a 280 a lot. My 280 with a longer throat, OAL 3.45, is about 30-35 fps behind the "improved" cases at equal pressures. In a hunting rifle, I would use a 22-23" barrel.
Very interesting approach. I've heard here that long throating like this, fixes the 7mm Rem mag How long do you trim your 280 cases? ie. do you let them grow longer than 2.540" with appropriate chamber adjustments for neck length? The reason the improved cases are more difficult to get to feed as slickly as a standard is because of the reduced body taper. The shoulder angle has nothing to do with that other than most "improveds" have both. another good reason to just extend the throat if you have the mag length. Also the idea that a 280 AI is lighter than a 7 mag is just wrong thinking. Same stock, same barrel, same action...the magnum will be slightly lighter because the chamber removes a little more steel. Kimber 84L changes that I would get the standard built but have the throat extended. Cases and dies are cheaper. Or just get a 270 or a 7RM.
Very interesting thoughts, please elaborate on throat lengthening. Cheers
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,936 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,936 Likes: 3 |
Thanks to some of the guys here for advice, I will tell my brother to make his a 280 ackley.
Rechambering a factory barrel that isn�t getting the velocity one is looking for is throwing good money at bad. The barrel is likely still going to be slow, but now it will be slow with a few hundred extra dollars sunk into set back/rechambering and new dies. What I�m trying to not so eloquently say is that rechambering won�t fix the slow velocity issue if the barrel has loose bore dimensions. Also, I�m not sure what being a �reloading chicken� is, but a 280 AI isn�t going to change things. If that means your brother backs down when pressure signs are encountered on the brass, he is a smart man, as pressure signs don�t often occur until over 70,000 psi. Have him load some 120 ttsxs at 3150 fps in the factory barrel, and he�ll not want for a 280 AI any longer. Also the idea that a 280 AI is lighter than a 7 mag is just wrong thinking. Same stock, same barrel, same action...the magnum will be slightly lighter because the chamber removes a little more steel. Kimber 84L changes that The problem there being the throat length to magazine length on the Kimber 280 AI. Long throat, not so long mag box.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,364 |
pg : good to know - the LA rugers are like that too with no extra room in the mag box.
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,678 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,678 Likes: 5 |
Karl Feldkamp @ Kampfeld Custom did the bolt fluting & skeletonizing, the cerrokote & (stock) trigger work. I did the stocking & bedding, B&C MR stock. It's an older, smooth bolt knob Rem 700 Mountain Rifle, factory 22" barrel that allows the bullet to be seated out a bit. With the Leupold 2.5x8 & Talley LWT mounts, it weighs 6lb, 14oz.
MM, what is your load and what velocity do you get loading it to full potential?
59 gr of RL-19, 140 NBT or 140 Barnes TSX, 3020 FPS. I will say that I've never been able to get 270 velocities with comparable bullets in any 280 I've owned & most are a little fussier in what they like than what I've found in most 270's; the rifle pictured is an exception......it's fairly fast & not very finicky. Here are some pics of some load development testing groups with 140 & 120 NBT's & RL-19, Win 780 & IMR 7828 with the 140's * RL-15 with the 120's. MM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 80
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 80 |
Thanks to some of the guys here for advice, I will tell my brother to make his a 280 ackley.
Rechambering a factory barrel that isn�t getting the velocity one is looking for is throwing good money at bad. The barrel is likely still going to be slow, but now it will be slow with a few hundred extra dollars sunk into set back/rechambering and new dies. What I�m trying to not so eloquently say is that rechambering won�t fix the slow velocity issue if the barrel has loose bore dimensions. Also, I�m not sure what being a �reloading chicken� is, but a 280 AI isn�t going to change things. If that means your brother backs down when pressure signs are encountered on the brass, he is a smart man, as pressure signs don�t often occur until over 70,000 psi. Have him load some 120 ttsxs at 3150 fps in the factory barrel, and he�ll not want for a 280 AI any longer. Also the idea that a 280 AI is lighter than a 7 mag is just wrong thinking. Same stock, same barrel, same action...the magnum will be slightly lighter because the chamber removes a little more steel. Kimber 84L changes that The problem there being the throat length to magazine length on the Kimber 280 AI. Long throat, not so long mag box. Prairie goat, my brother has a krieger chomoly #2 finished at 22" ready to be reamed, he was debating on either 280 or improved. what's to hurt by going improve, still be able to shoot the old 280 and look cool. It's his gun, so he can build it whatever he likes. As for me, doesn't matter if I am shooting a 7 mag, 308 or 270, I limit all my shots to 300 yards so deer won't know the difference and so do I.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,122
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Read it again and I still read that you was having a problem making a 280AI feed properly. Hmmmm I am surely missing something. [/quote]
Feed work is common on some custom builds.
Now if the work was performed and the cartridge didn't feed that would classify as a problem getting it to feed. No one ever said that it is a problem to get a 280AI to feed. It was stated that it may require a little work.
Work to complete the build Problem getting it to feed
2 entirely different thing
Shod
Shod
Last edited by Shodd; 11/01/14.
The 6.5 Swede, Before Gay Was Ok
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I think you need to read what I said again. Read it again and I still read that you was having a problem making a 280AI feed properly. Hmmmm I am surely missing something. [/quote] Feed work is common on some custom builds. Now if the work was performed and the cartridge didn't feed that would classify as a problem getting it to feed. Shod [/quote] Huh....Not sure I follow what your saying...Well sure if it won't feed then it is a feeding problem.
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