Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting What are you looking to improve next time ?

After every season, it seems it is time to re-evaluate and improve on ones kit. I have to admit, mine worked out pretty well this year, at least by seasons end. A few minor improvements I will likely make

- Just use a dedicated gravity water system , and maybe augment it with tablets. I have been making a sawyer based system , but by the time I weighed the complete system it was more than my platy , slower and more fussy. If water is good, I'll probably take the platy and call it good

- I'd still like to improve my sleeping pad situation. It's not that I have bad pads, because I love my Down Mat, and I like my combo prolite torso and CCF. The problem is the combo is not good if you are situated on bunch grass, and while the down mat is fine, it's not easy to pull a way from camp for possible bivy. I don't know if the ideal set up exists for me,

- Clothing, I could do a better job of re-applying DWR before hand, and will probably carry a poncho tarp like item with some built on orange panels for really crappy wet weather.

- I may re-eval BiPod / Tripod type of stuff, or I might not.

- Food ..as always. I'm not a big mountain house type of person. I generally subsist on nuts , jerky and some bars. After a few weeks of being mostly in the field , I could not take any more bars. Some more substantial type of food would have been welcome.

The rest of my kit worked pretty well.

Shelter system - your LBO set is on the "need to get" list.

Will probably do the Stone Glacier 7400 before next year, just to see what the fuss is all about. Like the idea of more capacity and easier access, but can't quite come to terms with letting my Terminus go.

I need to work out my "unplanned overnight" gear a bit, or just start planning to spend the night.

Might take the plunge on high-tech rain gear, or at least a jacket for next year.

I feel like our gear has been pretty well dialed in the last couple years. Heavier than lots of folks, but I think the weight is spent in the right places.

I will have to replace my rain jacket before next year. Will likely get another Marmot Precip, plus maybe another lighter one for backpacking.

I'm evaluating sleeping pads as well. I'd really really like to be one of those people who can get a good nights sleep on a CCF pad only. Maybe one of these would help? http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/accessories/lunapad.htm

My gear worked pretty well. Water, I'm undecided. I like the sawyer filter bottle for ease of use, but I need to carry a lot of water. Maybe straight tabs?

Boots - I need a pair. Love my trail runners, but for wet cold muddy weather (right now) they're not that great. I want a set of La Sportiva Boulder X Mids for hiking / active duty, plus a set of the old bunny boots for treestanding in cold weather.

I also "need" a 22 mag bolt gun for predator hunting. Thinking about a stainless Ruger 77/22 if I can trade into one reasonably.

I scrapped the poncho tarp this year. Hunted one day in light rain/sleet/snow. The original idea was that it would cover me, my pack, and serve as an emergency shelter. The reality is I've carried it for no other reason than raingear and that it stinks as raingear. Just hate a poncho.
So I purchased a lightweight Cabelas rain shell and I'll carry it. I don't spend a great deal of time in the backcountry anyway. My raingear is more for the occasional times I may need it.
I really need a new and lighter weight bag. That may be my big gear upgrade this year. Last year it was a Paradox pack, which has worked well BTW.

Other than that, I'm fairly content.

I sleep well on a CCF / Prolite small combo unless it is alpine bunch grass (which is frequent). I could get you a custom EVA mat if you desire

The La Sportiva are a nice balance of minimalism and function. Certainly not the comfort of some boots but they work pretty well and are good for climbing etc since they are essentially a waterproof approach mid.

I try to keep weight on the feet a minimum, but sometimes it doesn't matter after a bunch of mud collects. I hunted one day in Kenetreks where there were a lot of cactus, and it was muddy, and at one point I looked like a member of the KISS army. Each boot must have weighed 7 lbs and a trail runner would have weighed just as much, except I would have had a bunch of holes from cactus in my feet.

Yes, cactus are why I really prefer an all leather boot.

The one thing I would like to improve is my normal outerwear. I currently use Cabelas Microtex, which works fine and did better this year after I hit 'em pretty agressively with some DWR spray. However, I'd like something with a bit more weather/wind resistance. I'm thinking one of the new soft shells might fit my needs, but not sure.

Kevin,

I'm no expert but I have used an MSR gravity filter for about three years now and wouldn't use any other system. If I think the water is going to be real funky I bring some tablets but I have yet to use them.

FWIW to you.

As far as gear improvements I need to replace my tried and true Keens as my go to shoe. The quality just isn't what it was and they come unglued before hunting season even starts. Fuggin' lame.

Everything else I'm happy with right now. Especially since I switched to the BA sleep setup with their big ass Q Core. Heavy, but I don't give a schit.


Travis

At some point I need to address that the Big Agnes sleep system of pad into pad sleeve no longer works for me. I loved the concept, but I'm too much of a side sleeper. Taking the pad out of the bag and side sleeping leaves me cold - no insulation on bottom side of bag.

I'll need to go mummy/semi-mummy and a good pad. The Lost Ranger/Insulated Air Core was a good combo and has served me well for many years. But as temps near the 20 degree mark, I get cold. And that is sleeping in base layers, socks and beanie.

I'm a side sleeper too. Square bag. Square pad.

Like I said, heavy. But I don't give a schit. Sleep is important.



Travis

The BA -20 degree Park bag and a Q-Core gave me the best sleep I have had in years this deer and elk season.

The pads are spendy but I am after one for my base camp bag now.
I believe I paid more for the mattress than I did for the bag originally.

Kind of likespending enough on a scope to get the rifle to perform its best.

This year, I replaced my 2-man tarp tent with a SO 6-man tipi and large stove. It worked REALLY well on this year's CO 2nd rifle season elk hunt�.Thanks Kevin for your help with the purchase! This combo helped me and a hunting buddy to cook, sleep and stay warm for the better part of a week in the backcountry. Best purchase I've made in a long time.

With regard to water purification, I'm keeping my MSR Mini-works water filter. I can't see fixing something this isn't broke.

My sleep system also continues to work well. It consists of a Therm-a-Rest LuxuryLite cot and a Mountain Hardware 0 degree Phantom bag. As a whole, my kit is probably too heavy for backpack hunting but, 3 of the past 4 years, we have used horses. Just too old for a pure backpack hunt. I'm in good shape and I tried it 2 years ago and it kicked my butt.

With regard to clothing, this year, I've come full circle and have gone back to using wool pants and a military style wool sweater with a Gore-Tex Pro shell jacket. I think I'm done with the synthetic stuff, except for the jacket. I'm staying with my Kenetrek boots as well.

Yep. I used my wife's bag for a trip this year. It's a regular and mine is a long. The long is also girthier in the shoulders making it easy to sleep on your side. If one is near the size limit of the bag, go up. I know I could tell the difference. IMO, the BA system is best for side and/or restless sleepers.

I cannot do the regular size bags. I'm 6' and 220.



Travis

I'm pretty happy with most of my stuff. There are two things I want to do.

For the most part my backpack "hunting" is late summer scouting and one late summer hunt I sometimes can get a tag for. It can be pretty buggy so one of the things I want to improve is my bug gear.

I should have enough preference points to draw a mid november muzzleloader elk tag. If I can find a just-right packable tent I might try that as a backpack hunt. Our wet near-coast snow is really heavy. It can run as high as 3-4 inches of water per foot of snow compared to the 1:10 ratio found farther inland. Tents that work in light fluffy snow fail in a specially epic sort of way.

Tom

Me either. I'm 5'10" and 290# of pure manliness. I was sorta like a taquito in the regular bag.

Bigger bag for my MR Nice frame for 5+ day hunts, better filter system and a merino wool base layer.

I went to the 10deg EE Revelation quilt, LxW, coupled with an exped Downmat 7UL LW.
under 4lbs all up, and comfy as home. Worked well with layering down to the teens, all zipped up , and unzipped sprawled out with my legs out at 50deg.
Best upgrade ever to a good nights sleep.
With bourbon a close second.

Favorite sleeping pad I've used is the REI Flash. 3" thick insulated inflatable, weighs 16 oz, packs smaller than a water bottle for $100. I'm a side sleeper and don't have any trouble with it and a mummy bag, I just roll the whole bag sideways with me. 3.2 R value may not be enough for really cold temps, but it's higher than CCF.

For water I use a Katadyn Mybottle purifier along with a Platypus hydration system and a spare platypus bladder for dirty water. The hydration pack is refilled with safe water when available, the dirty bladder is used to fill the Mybottle in the backcountry and boil for cooking. Probably a better system out there but it works well for me.

I do the same with nuts/jerky for a 2-3 day trip but it gets old after that. Summer sausage and cheese and the 90 second jambalaya rice pouches are great. I try to keep it over 100 calories per ounce but could use more ideas.

I currently use an alcohol stove but could use something better for group cooking, it's a pain for each person to have to carry all of their individual food and cook separately. It would be a lot nicer to have a stove large enough to take turns cooking and still be lightweight.

My kit sucks. It all works too well to abandon, or rather well enough that I don't feel I will be abandoned. There isn't anything else positive I can say however. I look back in my mentality while putting all this stuff together and realize that it was all tempered by healthy dose of the attitude that safety defines functionality. I can safely spend the night out over and over again in single digits on a thermarest in my 20degree down bag under a unsuspended poncho. Good enough!!! I can safely eschew raingear as long as I sleep in my wet clothes every night so they dry. Good enough. And since all my clothes are heavy- it's important to keep that one set I'm wearing "serviceable" because I doubt ill carry any extra. So again- serviceability drives the bus while comfort stands in the station wondering why he can't ever seem to get there intone to catch the bus. I eat like the op- but add hot drinks, ie tea coffee bullion even just hot water. I use a whisper light though because there is nothing less functional than canisters in the cold at any altitude above 1500'


Anyway. I have placed too much premium on durability- feeling a piece of kit should be able to endure the same level of abuse and hardship that I am. This has lead to myself and my kit needlessly enduring alot of hardship.

On a recent NON-backpacking 1 week steelhead fishing trip with nights in the low teens I brought my "backpacking" kit while my buddy brought a kingdome8 and a cot and a posh pad etc. he was like- dude- we have a Crew cab longbed f350, why didn't you bring something to sleep on"

"Exactly- we've got the truck. If its that bad- I have a contingency plan"

Freaking cold trip. 2 nights it was cold enough i let my lab sleep in his truck.

You do this in a down bag for more than one night at a time? I think rain gear is one of the last things I'd eschew.

Plenty enough times. Obviously not when it's very cold- 40s or so. And nothing is cut and dried. But- if it's col enough that I'm worries about staying dry, it probably will be reasonably easy todo so as the precip is likely frozen. If its not so cold that I'm worries about being wet, then I'm just like every other guy on the mountain. I almost always have Patagonia something or other rain jacket - but eithe tima realist or a pessimist and it doesn't see the ligh of day much. Why? Well, how many threads are there about what to wear to stay dry, and nothin works. If water can ge out- water can get in. If water can't get out- it can't get out. If its raining in either in a bivysack, or movin around to generate some body heat and maybe find an animal. Glassing in the rain... You've seen it usually in the ak section- what to wear while glassin in the rain??? I can't glass well enough in the rain to see a return on the time spent doing it, so I go with what I know and cover ground with my feet.

Who among us stays dry when it rains on his trip? 2 days of rain and nothing is dry. Stop kidding yourself. May as well let the rain wash out some salt to help keep my clothes serviceable when they dry.

None of us, if we eschew rain gear. I go with rain gear. None of it's perfect, but it's better than getting soaked and drying out your clothes by sleeping in a down bag.

Like I said- my kit has room for improvement, but I need a new mindset first. Some people never learn they are impervious to water. Some never learn they needn't be. It's not like I'm giving advice on the matter. I will absolutely stand by my assessment that if its raining- and you can't/ wont get in a structure- you and your [bleep] will be getting wet. The realities of keeping things dry and in use in multiple days of rain are pretty grim. Dry, maybe. Dry and in use- to include your person (not just kit)- no so much.

I don't know what to tell you. You probably just need better rain gear. It's one of the last things I'd do without.

And yes, I have been in the rain outside all day, for more than a day and stayed reasonably dry. Hanging out alone in the backcountry in a 35-degree rain without rain gear is not something I'd do on purpose.

Where do you keep your rain gear while you sleep? How do you keep water from condensing inside it overnight?


35 degrees and rainy is pretty much a total loss. Anywhere tha it's hunting season in this country and rainy and 35 during hours of visibility stands a very good chance of being very cold and icy overnight... I would count on being wet and cold all day. If I had already spent a night I would not pack my sleeping bag and would elevate it on something in the tent or hang the bivysack over a rock or limb to avoid any potential of building standing water that could present an issue. If it were the firs night the bag would stay in a "warerppoof" stuff sack until I was ready to get in. I would keep a baselayer dry in a zipper type bag and use them only for sleeping in. Depending how soaked things are would define just how many and what wet layers get worn over the sleeping base layer to dry. 35 and raining will have me wearing whatever raintop I have while moving around- or sitting stationary. Much warmer than 35 and ill sweat enough while moving that it becomes a tossup. Not saying I sweat enough to simulate no wearing raingear but that partially evaporated pint or so of sweat bouncing back and forth between the moisture wicking baselayer and the waterproof breathable membrane sure starts to feel the same as being soaked after a while.


You saw where I mentioned safety vs comfort. You aren't going to throw up a fringe set of the exteme low end of "wet" weather- and get me to argue against raingear. There are times when doing what you can to limit exposure to the wet is a survival issue. There are times when it isn't.


Haha. I was going to type:
By virtue of the fact that I can even post this you have to assume I can effectively tell the difference and outfit myself accordingly.


But then I realized I'm on the Internet. And that's the last thing anyone would assume.

All I know about rain is it'll stop and thingsll dry out or it won't and they won't. I learned this outside

I keep it in the tent, which most of the time is floorless. I don't keep water from condensing inside it at night because there aren't any sources of water vapor inside it after I take it off.

35 degrees and rainy describes most of the early elk season I hunted in two years ago. It was miserable but my rain gear made it manageable.

I tell ya what they told me.

A) you already have a waterproof breathable membrane
B) your only wet on the outside. (Strictly speaking this one is false)


Point A is the one I'm going with now...

Actually- addressing your tent/ raingear - in my experience (gotta love that one) things in the tent (assuming its occupants are alive) get a pretty decent coat of condensation. Not drying wet clothes overnight would certainly reduce this. I can't remember off the top of my head how much water you give off exhaling all night... Bringing us to point a

The Waterproof breathable membrane- doesn't know if its condensed vapor or beads of sweat or rain that it isn't allowing into your body. They are all just wet- and back to B, but only on the outside.

Let me see if I've got these pearls straight, I don't want to miss anything that "they" told you.

1) By waterproof, breathable membrane, are you talking about your skin?

If you are, and it sure sounds that way, that has to be one of the most inane comments I've seen lately. Unless you've found a way to use your skin to keep your base layer and insulation dry. And if your skin makes a waterproof/windproof shell unnecessary, why not just hunt in your birthday suit?

2) I'm not sure what your point is regarding condensation inside a tent. Some backpacking tents are much better than others at either preventing condensation or making it not a problem, like well-ventilated single-walled tarp tents that pitch with the side walls up off the ground, or double-walled tents. And some are big enough (tipis) that it doesn't matter.

But what does all that have to do with whether going without rain gear is a good idea? Besides the fact that without rain gear, you'll be spending more time in the tent? With a decent tent, condensation will not be a problem.

Edited to add: The only reason I'm not dropping this is it's a bad idea to suggest to people, especially inexperienced people who may be reading this, that it's a good idea to go without rain gear on a backpack hunt. It's not.

In my limited experience, 2 days in the rain and 10 days in the rain are very different animals (for obvious reasons). You can stand to be hunting in the rain for 2 days straight and still be hunky-dory. But hunting out of a backpack and a tent, for 10 days straight, whilst staying dry, is an extremely tall order, and maybe even an impossible one. I had the best rain gear that I could buy, and my schit still got wet fairly regularly when I was exposed to over a week straight of hard rain and low ceilings.

Also IME, wet rain gear does not dry out in a tent while it is still raining outside. It simply stays wet.

Tanner

It dries real fine if you have a wood stove:)

Wood stoves don't work too well with no timber to burn!

Not that we have that problem in Colorado, but we don't normally deal with 10 straight days of rain either.

I had been meaning to ask you if you had figured out why I don't put much stock in raingear advice from folks around your home turf. Funny part is that you were in a relatively dry part of the state

175, if you want to test drive anything I've got, you are more than welcome.

Oh yeah... wasn't too hard for me to figure out why.

I'm stoked to check out some places like Kodiak and the Peninsula, but not looking forward to the weather at all!

Tanner

When it's wet, it's wet. The goal is to stay warm, not dry. Cold weather clothing systems are designed to work a certain way to accomplish that but apparently few understand how they work....


Don't think I would get in a down sleeping bag to dry out clothes.

A couple of things here - first I too have been able to dry clothing in a down bag. I am always amazed by how wet I can get my down bag and still have it work. Once I spent three straight days in the rain with just a bivy and the bag was SOAKED but it still worked - down bags do stop working when wet but they absorb a lot more water and still work than people generally believe.

All that said - once you've camped with a teepee and woodstove there is no going back. You can dry everything above the stove every day. Even the wet down bags. I don't need to dry my gear with body heat in the sleeping bag these days. I got a stove to do it for me.

Also the woodstove is really good for another reason that often slips under the radar. It means you don't have to eat freeze dried food. I can't believe how people have any energy to hunt after eating mountain house for days on end. I eat slow cooked on the stove rice and beans meals. REAL FOOD. No pouring the water into the bag and eating to survive and then retreat to the sleeping bag to sleep. In our teepee with woodstove we kick back and wait for our food. Dry our feet - talk - and eat eventually. Far more satisfying.

I also live on Kodiak island where it is supposed to be real wet and windy. I generally find dry willow and alder up to around 2000 feet. On a sheep hunt in the Brooks Range we found good wood up to 4400 feet. In the Brooks range we did a 10 day hunt and only used the 2 lb wood stove for cooking - it saved a serious amount in terms of propane cans.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying that if you want to improve your gear a lightweight woodstove might be a good idea! And I will add that a good tip is to bring wire - 2 summers ago I was in a place where it was too hot to cook inside a tent and so we set up the stove outside. We used the wire to fasten the stovepipe to a wood tripod. Far far better than trying to cook on a bonfire.

Patrick

Good stuff. I need to look into a stove and tipi setup more seriously, sounds like....

Tanner

A lot of valid points here and really no one is wrong. I still have not found the perfect rain gear that keeps me dry from the inside and outside. Personally, my best luck, has been wearing something water resistant, and then using something like a poncho / rain kilt , or even DWR dancing pants on the outside (I use what works not what sounds tough). I do live in dry Colorado, but I still find my way into the mountains when it's wet a lot.

The wood stove has a lot of benefits, especially for drying gear.

I'm with Patrick on the NO Mountain House. I don't know how you guys can eat those things daily. I've made some of my own dehydrated meals that work well before, but nothing pre-packaged has done the trick. Honestly, I'd rather carry sausage and other food if I feel the need for real meals.

You don't think the two are related? Especially with a breeze?

As far as Mountain House, there is a middle ground, if you supplement them with olive oil and/or small packets of meat. I still don't eat 'em every day but they have their place. Especially when you get to camp in the dark, maybe cold (and wet) it's nice to climb in the bag, boil some water, scarf it down, and crash.

I agree. The one breakfast Mtn House I tried was a giant fail. But otherwise, the spaghetti, lasagna, beef stroganoff are all pretty good IMO. I usually carry some summer sausage, swiss cheese, pita, dried cranberries and maybe some almonds and I'm good all day. Maybe just eat that instead of Mtn House.
I'll say this, freeze dried and dehydrated have come a looong way since my Boy Scout days back in the mid 70's!

But yeah, end of a long day of hiking and climbing, back at camp, pour some water in, scarf it down and hit the sack. I've made some of my own dried meals and used rice, dried soup mixes etc, etc, but simmering and preparing a meal and dish duty I typically have little interest in at the end of a long day.
Mtn House serves its intended purpose.

disclaimer: I've never eaten them more than about 4 days straight.

Some yes, some no.

Before I spend two hours (because I am an incredibly slow typer on a phone) describing how clothing works when everyone may already know (though not with some of the responses), will you explain your (as in anyone can answer this) understanding of how base layers, outer garments, insulating layers, and water proof shells work?

I have to confess that I actually like Mountain house. There, I said it. I can't quite understand the complaints about it. But food in general is one of those things that I look at as an annoying necessity, and I know that many have a different viewpoint.

First off, I'm talking about temperatures where you have liquid precipitation.

My understanding of how the layers work is really my understanding of how they work for me and how I use them.

I normally have a pack and only wear the base/insulation layers I need, and try to minimize sweating. Extra layers stay in the pack. Besides layering I use zip-front base layers and shirt to ventilate, gloves, and hat that go on/off without stopping to fine tune heat retention. I stick to none or lightweight long john bottoms because you can't adjust those on the move.

Base layers should wick sweat away from the body, and both base and insulation layers need to be hydrophobic, not clump or collapse when wet, and insulate when wet.Insulation works by trapping dead air, and it generally works best without liquid clogging the pore space; water is not a good insulator.

Unless you're sitting on the ground where you lose heat through conduction, or at night where you lose it to the sky through radiation, you'll be losing most of your heat through convection and evaporation.

Good hydrophobic base and insulation layers will insulate when wet, although not as good as when dry, as long as you don't have significant convection, which equates to being cooled by moving air. If you've got wet insulation and can't get out of the wind you'll be losing heat through both convection and evaporation, not a good combination. So a windproof shell over wet insulation will cut down on both and keep you warm, and if you're already warm and/or on the move you obviously take off the shell and let the moisture evaporate.

If you have a windproof shell, you may as well make it waterproof or water resistant and not get your insulation soaked in the first place. It's easier to stay dry (most of the time) than to get dry.

Like a lot of others I don't put much stock in waterproof breathable shells for keeping inner layers from getting wet with sweat. Water vapor from your body is warm and the outer shell is cold so no matter how permeable you'll get some condensation in the shell.

The reason I carry a shell is to cut down on both convective and evaporative heat loss. And to keep my insulation as dry as possible.

The biggest drawback I have seen to Mountain House is the side effects after an hour or so.

If there are several Mountain House eating folks sharing your teepee, flammable gas buildup might get to the point where ignition is a real danger.

Back in the '70's a friend and I hiked the John Muir trail starting at Yosemite. First night bears ripped us off big time (did you know bears can polevault?), eating all the granola, gorp & other trail goodies but leaving all the Mountain House dinners some rice and the Tang. This left us eating primarily freeze dried dinners for the next 16 days and 240 miles. This may have been the real cause of the near extinction of the condor in that area as air quality was severely degraded. We lived but I went from 165# to 145.

If you remember to stay low to the ground (crawl in an out of the teepee) and not open your eyes too wide, Mountain House will serve as a simple means of keeping you alive for a short time.

Count me in for another Mountain House lover. It does do some interesting things to your guts after 2 straight months of it, though.

Tanner

I, too, like Mountain House, at least most flavors. A lot of it is lot better with just a little garlic salt and black pepper. (Of course, what isn't ... besides ice cream?) The Italian stuff can be improved a lot with a touch of parmesan cheese. You can make it a whole lot better without adding more than a couple ounces to your pack. The olive oil trick is one I haven't tried yet but should ... it'd be handy to have to fry a trout, too.

Tom

Grated parmesan and olive oil make the MH spaghetti with meat sauce downright edible.

To be clear I responded to you because you quoted me, not because I necessarily found that you were wrong. A rain shell is one of the last clothing items that I would leave on a backcountry trip.


Really the whole thing is about equilibrium. You, me, the environment- all want to keep everything balanced. In SE Alaska and environments like it there is no way to stay dry if you are outside. I have never been able to stay dry, no one that I have ever talked to has been able to stay dry, and there is no possible way with what we have to stay dry. In that environment all I care about is clothing that will keep me alive while I'm wet as there will be no comfort involved. For sure it may be possible to be less than sopping wet, but you will always be damp.

I don't think that is what you're referring to however. Instead I believe that you are referring to the Rocky Mtn. area of relatively low humidity, high elevations, and cold. If we are sitting still it is possible to stay mostly dry in this environment during an afternoon storm. If we move we will perspire and if we are wearing a "waterproof, breathable" outer layer at some point the wet from inside matches the wet from outside and then all we have is a windbreak, which may be very important. All this is to say that you are generally correct, however my initial post was more to do with 175rltw's assertion that rainwear isn't needed, though it sounds like he learned clothing and comfort from the same local that I initially did.

I use a simplified 4 layer system for about 95% of what I do.

Synthetic or merino wool Base layer- main purpose is to help move moisture away from skin, secondary is for added insulation.

General outer layer- Mainly used to protect base layer or skin. Can be synthetic, wool or Cotten depending on conditions.

Insulation layer- puff pants and jacket either synthetic or water resistant down- for warmth and to help provide a micro climate.

Waterproof, breathable shell- princapply used for those who particapate in exertive activities not to block rain, but to create a micro environment within the clothing system to "pull" moisture away from their skin and base layers.


Going back to the equilibrium thing, the base layer absorbs the moisture from direct contact. Next to skin is a high humidity environment. Between base layer and outside layer is a lower humidity environment. Because the air wants to equalize the high humidity next to skin is "pushed" in to the lower humidity of the general outer layer. The goal is to get the moisture as far away from the skin as possible, so while hiking in you soak yourself with sweat, your base layer is absorbing that moisture and pushing it to the outer layer. That's all good except that if it is cold enough- when you stop it can do to good a job and produce cold injuries. So the moment you stop throw the insulation (puff suit) top and bottom on AND the waterproof, breathable outer layer on even while still hot- in fact because you are still hot. You're using that heat to help "push" the moisture away. Again the environment between the general purpose layer and insulation layer is lower in humidity and will pull the moisture into the insulation layer. The humidity between the insulation layer and waterproof, breathable layer is again lower and will pull the moisture from the insulation layer into the waterproof, breathable layer and then out into the air.

There is of course more to it and while it seems that you know what you're doing, it is very clear from a lot of the responses in threads that a lot have no idea that clothing IS a system and understand how that system works.

Thanks Smokepole you saved me a lot of typing. I have made many multi-week trips to the Aleutians. Adak, Attu and Amchitka. Rarely did I see the sun and the wind never stopped. We mainly camped in abandoned WW2 structures and AEC era structures that leaked copiously. Old school polypro, pile, and 3 layer Goretex kept us alive and functional. This was in the '80s and gear is better now.

Fires are nice when possible but the Amchitka National Forest is a few Fir trees planted during WW2 that were about 3' tall when I was there.

My 1st meal of freeze dried was Chili to which that we didn't add enough water. I awoke in a new down bag that reeked beyond human levels.

mike r

Back to the OP's question, what I'm really looking to improve for next year;s hunt is my conditioning for humping loads up steep slopes by doing more of that and less work in the gym. The gym is good, but it'll only get you so far.

Its probably not what its doing, but rather what it is not doing. If you have a lot of gas it probably is because you are not getting enough enzymes to help your digestion.

If you are going to eat [bleep] on a long hunt, take along some vitamins and some enzyme tablets.

-Carry less stuff
-Eat more on the trip even if I am not hungry.
-Remember and apply lessons learned this year...thermals, terrain etc
-maybe lighter boots....Cabela's Miendls right now
-ballistic scope?
-and again, carry less stuff.
HD

Once you try it you may never go back. Very little weight penalty for tremendous benefit. Drying gear, warming up at bedtime, and generally just feeling very comfortable when it's miserable outside.

After my experience two seasons ago I decided this is the way to go. Got caught in a very heavy wet snowstorm on the hike in. Well after dark I realized we would not make it all the way to our main campsite. We were pretty cold and wet after working through willows and just the very heavy snow. Quickly cleared a spot, I set up the tent, another got some small branches and within about 15 minutes the tent was set up and we quickly fired up the stove. Within minutes we were warm and the gloves were hung over the stove to start drying. Burned it for about an hour and went to bed warm and comfortable and got a great nights sleep. Priceless.

Edit: as for improvement, I want the tipi with two doors. Much easier to get in and out of vice squeezing around the stove.

I use Mtn House for dinner and MREs for lunch. No need to carry a stove to heat water with the MRE. I'm lazy, and I think they are not too bad. I am still refining the snacks, but almonds, PowerBars, dried fruit, some gatorade packets and instant coffee are working pretty well. Getting the volume down to what is really required could be better. I need to consider rethinking my water purification. I have a Sawyer, but it says that freezing will damage the filter. Pretty hard to keep from freezing with temps in the teens. My camelback hose was frozen while hiking.

Hi

The two doors are really useful. Keeps you drier by not climbing around stuff, thus we do two doors in most designs.

For gravity style filters, I blow them out before I go to bed and stuff them in my sleeping bag. Not an infallible solution but it has served me well.

I've used the sawyers a lot, but if I I am not bivy hunting I may go back to the Platy system for ease of use / simplicity and speed

I've got a few things to address, but the biggest thing is to bring a spare ink pen. I lost mine the first day out and I needed one to fill out my tag after I shot my deer.

Many easterners have no experience with high desert and Rocky Mtn rain. Often it can be pouring rain at 60% humidity. The evaporation rate is pretty high when that happens and chill factor plummets. The rain water in the east can be like taking a shower but the rain in the Rockies can be 50F or colder, even in midsummer. The risk of hypothermia is far higher when the humidity is low because of that evaporation rate that pulls out your body heat. So, yes, staying dry and staying warm are HIGHLY related. It does speed drying stuff a bit, though.

I always bring just a 2-inch stub of a pencil. No moving parts, and nothing to leak. And in a pinch, you could even shave it into tinder.

Tanner,

Boy oh boy I can relate to several days in the rain. 4 years ago on a 11 day backpack Alaskan bear hunt it rained 9 days... HARD! The wetness just krept into everything, even with good gear. Cold wet days followed by damp cold nights. No way to dry out. At least I got a good bear.

Lefty

It took me a while to get used to that sort of wet, coming from Colorado... Awesome bear!

Tanner

I heard it's not a problem because all the guides have umbrellas?

What is this "dry" you speak of?

The elders out here on the NW coast have spoken of such a thing but most of us have not seen it.

I am adding a stove to my tipi. I got a sierra designs mountain tarp and stove from liteoutdoors. Just working out the kinks this weekend. I experimented with mre this fall. It was hit or miss. Okay as lunch like chili and chicken, but the beans or pasta was bad. Mountain house or freeze dried is much better and lighter.

My sleep set up sucks. I'm too damn old for the little Z Lite pad. I want to check out the BA set up. Looks comfy.

MM, check out the combination of a light closed-cell pad like a 3/4 length z-rest or evazote with a Neoair on top. It's outstanding to sleep on, not too heavy, and the foam pad has a lot of other uses like sitting on when you glass, eat lunch, or lounge around a campfire.

Will improve my tipi stove.

I'm glad I built one and tried it in fairly deep cold before selecting and buying an obviously better commercially made stove.

My first stove was 5x5x9.5" with flat top useful for cooking. Used in -20 to -25F range, when red hot it would keep the temps above freezing in the upper half of the tipi. Frost never left the lower tipi sides and cooking on the stove plus breath of two people kept building frost condensation on the walls. Even so it felt wondrously warm in the tipi compared to outside.

The stove galloped between red hot and almost going out in cycles of about three minutes. It would not maintain warmth in a space as large as the 6 man tipi in temps that cold. It had to be fed fairly dry sticks constantly. A better designed stove would undoubtedly improve performance but the voracious appetite for fuel soured me on really small stoves. I have already built a cylinder stove that is 10 inches diameter and 13 inches long. The tipi, extra cord and quite a few stakes fit inside the stove.

Also have some ideas about first time rolling of a titanium stove pipe but that is probably better in a thread of its own.

!!! !!!