Home Forums Birds & Dogs Upland Game The 410 is crap

I will most likely get flamed to no end but I own one and I just hate it.The 3th worst piece of hunting advice I ever accepted.What's it good for.Slug's from a 410 just flat out sucks and bird shot is no better.Sorry for the rant just looking at that shotgun tick's me off.

I forgot it's rated as a caliber.

My daughters first shotgun was a H&R Pardner youth.
But it was a 28gauge with a 22" Modified choke and straight-grip stock designed for youths length-of-pull.
That was 1994 for her 6th birthday!
Since then we've put on a full size buttstock for her but it is her first gun and she said it will never be sold by her!
She has taken grouse,rabbit,quail,pheasant,doves and with Bismuth shells she has shot teal and wood-ducks.
That little single has road many of hunting trips for her but now she seems to always reach for that Stoeger Uplander SxS 28gauge that she bought on her 18th birthday!
That was her first act as a adult she told us all at her birthday dinner that evening,the next was to head over to Walker,Mn the next day and buy herself a Marlin 1894CS in 38/357 so she has something proper for calling varmints up close and to have for when she ever(??????) does move into her own place,when she is done with college.

I shoot a Franchi 48 in 28gauge as does my father.
My wife shoots a Browning Citori Lightning 28gauge.
We do not own a 410caliber shotgun in either house.

That 3/4oz at 1300fps works great on upland critters out at 35yards as well any.
Mike

love the dbl barrel 410 for jack rabbits in the tall sage brush.

too much fun

Ok, I admit to liking a 410 for squirrel out here in the tall pines. But for birds? 28 gauge and up. My daughters, one a junior in HS. and the other a college soph, have been shooting 20 gauge's since they were in grade school. Light loads when they were young, now regular loads. The wife and I shoot 12's. Except for the furry rodents....

No, you're pretty much right.

Makes a great gun for gophers in the garden. Or squirrels in trees.

Separates the men from the boys on the skeet field.

Lets kids shoot a grouse on the ground without going home crying.

But for wingshooting game? Leave it at home.

My favorite gun for quail in the West Texas sticker thickets is my Winchester Model 42. It ain't crap. It'll run with the big dogs. Some days I shoot kinda crappy, but I'm capable of that with a 12 gauge too.

What do I tell my friends who kill their limit of quail with the .410, or shoot a half dozen rabbits on the run in a morning?

The .410 shoots like a rifle. It will help you sharpen your aim. Use it on clays and then watch the improvement with your 20s and 12s.

I agree Lee. I picked up a Golden Eagle .410 O/U last year. It did great on early season doves. I probably would have had to quit shooting earlier in the day with a 12 or 20, but I would not have had as much fun. I hope to try it on quail this fall and give the 28 ga. a rest.

I switch between a Winchester 101 in .410, and a Browning BSS 20 gauge, depending on which way I prefer my barrels stacked that day. There are times a prefer a .410 - if you have ever centered a ruffed at close range with a twenty, it isn't pretty.
I also like to shoot the odd round of trap with the .410. I typically run about 20 with it (which is less than what I shoot with my BT-99), but it sure sharpens you up in a hurry.

What brand is your 410? Do you want to sell it?...........<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

It's a Winchester model 9410 traditional .No because I like to collect.Even if I think the 410 is useless

Years ago I had an opportunity to go on a quail hunt with an old gentleman along the Savannah river in South Carolina. We were hunting his land with his dogs and his gun was a Winchester Model 42. To make a long story short, I watched him shoot five birds with five shots on a covey rise. He put the gun up and said he was done for the day. I can't do it, but I have seen it done.

Also had a H&R break open single shot.Gave it to a family member.

I only like the .410 for nostalgic reasons. I shot my first pheasant as a young boy with the family .410. I will always remember that day! I inherited the gun from my Dad, but don't ever shoot it anymore. My daughter shot her first clay pigeon with it.
Who knows, maybe someday a grand kid will use it as his/her first as well.
Wayne

In my younger years I could get a limit of dove with less than a box of shells with my dads Mossberg 410 bolt action. Then on Christmas 77" recieved S&W 1000 semi auto in 12 gauge. Never was the same (bolt action) thing after that. Know almost 30 years later I have re-discovered the 410 shotgun. Nothing beats the low recoil of that little devil and as for honing your skills wingshooting there is nothing better.

I've never owned a .410 and never will. I read an article that went into the physics of it and I don't see a need. Just too feeble.

Mark

p.s. I would love a sxs 28 with a straight english stock.

My cousin tom and I got three geese one morning with a single shot bolt action 410 and some fast running to catch the cripples. I dont know if my brothers sold that gun or if it is in my mom's attic now.

I bought my son a 28 Ruger Red Label - a great kids gun - still though I have a 24" 410 barrel for my T/C Carbine because they are the 22RF of shotguns.

Look at those CZ SxS shotguns in 28 and .410, under $900.00.
The Ruger 28 Red Label is a nice light gun.
So is the Weatherby Orion in 28.

Never used the .410, as I started out on a Stevens crack barrel 20.....kicked worse than most of my big bores. Now I like an 11/16 load in an old short 16 shell, in a 5 1/2 pound double. BUT I have been next to a guy at a dove shoot who went better than 50% kills with an old model 42, while I was struggling to get a limit on two boxes of 20s from an A5. And I've seen some might fancy quail shooting done with .410s. Just not by me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I shot a .410 as a kid and later I got a 20 just like the one you mention. It is my belief that if you endured the recoil of that little monster as a child, you have nothing to ever fear from recoil again.

My Winchester Model 42 is 58 years old and still looks "brand new". I bought it with the money I made at the first job I ever had... helping my Dad paint apartments when I was 12 years old.

I took the $95 I made and took a city bus downtown (Dayton, Ohio), went into a big sporting goods store and bought a new Model 42 Winchester shotgun... the .410 version of Winchester's famous Model 12... for $85 plus 3 boxes of 3" .410 shells and a soft case... spent all of the $95 I had except for bus fare.

I carried the little shotgun home on the city bus together with the 3 boxes of shells and the soft case... and no one raised any eyebrow because kids didn't shoot other kids at school back then... nor did anyone crash airliners full of passengers into tall buildings or hijack airplanes back then either... it was a different era.

I hunted rabbits and pheasants with that little gun for over 12 years... and killed a large number of both rabbits AND pheasants 'cause it was the only shotgun I had... and it served me well.

Then, the 2nd. Christmas I was married, my wife gave me a new Browning Lightning Grade, Belgium-made Superposed in 12 gauge and that became my "hunting gun" for the next 40 years.

The trim little Model 42 sat, unused, in the corner of my gun safe for over a half century until last year when my youngest son (who was then 42 years old) invited me on a pheasant hunt with him and his dog, "Jet", a white lab. But he insisted on using my Browning, so I had to choose between my Charles Daly 28 gauge over/under or my Model 42 in .410 bore... and I decided to give my Model 42 a "try".

I sighted down the little gun's ventilated rib at 4 different pheasants that morning... and fired 5 rounds, brought down 4 pheasants... missed one pheasant (stopped the gun swing & shot behind him), but brought him down with the 2nd. shot when he was about 30 yards away.

I guess no one ever told my Model 42 that ".410s won't kill pheasants". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

You are 100 percent correct. The 9410 is crap. I't an open choked gun chamber for 2 1/2 inch shells.Cool as a collector now. But a real .410 is full choke nad 3 inch and will kick Pheasant butt in the right hands. love my 42.--Jim--

....No question the 410 is a bit anemic when compared to even the little 28Ga. BUT it is, in the expert wingshots hands,sufficent to put down upland birds within it's range limits (i'd peg it sufficent out to 20-25yds with a well choked pattern).I've used it for bunnies,and squirrel on rare ocasion,but little else. I'd always prefer a 20 or 28 to the micro Ga (the 410 is a 67Ga).I have seen expert shots,men who are far my superior, bust 25 in a round of skeet! Such folks could bring home quail dinner for the family out of a box of shells...By the way,410 shells are far overpriced when compared to the bigger guages.

....No question the 410 is a bit anemic when compared to even the little 28Ga. BUT it is, in the expert wingshots hands,sufficent to put down upland birds within it's range limits (i'd peg it sufficent out to 20-25yds with a well choked pattern).I've used it for bunnies,and squirrel on rare ocasion,but little else. I'd always prefer a 20 or 28 to the micro Ga (the 410 is a 67Ga).I have seen expert shots,men who are far my superior, bust 25 in a round of skeet! Such folks could bring home quail dinner for the family out of a box of shells...By the way,410 shells are far overpriced when compared to the bigger guages.

Ron T.

Nice gun, nice story. Thanks for sharing. We're of the same vintage, and my first gun was a hammerless .410 Lefever single barrel that I inherited from my grandfather when I was 11. I never could hit and kill reliably with the .410, so it got relegated to tin cans and clay birds as soon as I could handle a 12 gauge. I can remember things like working to buy my first new gun, a Winchester M69 .22, and carrying a gun on the bus with nobody blinking an eye.

Paul

Chaser1
The only good thing about the 9410 is it's pleasant to look at .Performance wise it stinks.

Thanx... Paul39.....

Yes... the little Model 42 is "THE" sweet handling .410 bore... light... fast... and deadly accurate.

Speaking of "nobody blinking an eye"... I remember when the first airliner was hi-jacked and the hi-jacker jumped out of the aircraft over (I believe) Colorado with a parachute, but the authorities never found him.

At the time, I remember thinking to myself... "Wow... I never even CONSIDERED that anyone would DO something like hi-jack an airliner full of innocent people!"

Then... a few years ago, they discovered some bones and perhaps (I don't remember for sure) a parachute laying near the bones in the wilds of Colorado... and they figured they might be the remains that very first hi-jacker who didn't get away with it after all.

Didn't that hi-jacking happen 'way back in the mid-1950's?

Anyway, compared to "today", it appears we were rather "naive" back in "those days", eh Paul?!? Ahhhhh, yes! Comparatively, those were "innocent times" when we were "young-uns". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Owning a .410 is like playing golf. You better be prepared for failure!

The .410 works for some people and that's great-- I've got nothing against it. But, I personnally have to be very efficient with my limited field time. The places where I hunt are not all heavy cover with no shot more than 30 yds or so, and I can't afford to choose my shots. The .410 with its tall shot column and paltry payload, and the relatively tight chokes needed to increase pattern density even at close range, make it unsuitable for me. I shoot a 12 gauge because, with a 12 gauge, the physics of shotgun ballistics are in my favor. I can get excellent pattern density with less stringing, larger payload and use more open chokes. I can't afford the handicap of a .410.

If you can find an iver johnson 410 they were backbored and are among the best shooting 410s. back boring has been re discovered in the new long range turkey guns. what goes around comes around.

My father had a 32-inch Iver Johnson single shot that he used to down crippled ducks. We had a duck hunting club, and guided the members, all city fellows, doctors, businessmen, some really good shots, some lousy.

When the flight turned and the shooting stopped, my father would reach out 60, 70 and 80 yards to drop a wounded one before it got lost over the woods. He replaced it when he found something with a second shot, an 30-inch SxS Ithaca 3-inch magnum that had belonged to a market hunter from Long Island. It shot some doughnut and S patterns with 6s and 8s, but closed up with 4s and shot 2s like a rifle. 90% of the 2s would go into an 8-inch circle at 20 yards, and it would spin a mallard at 60 yards like he had hit a tree limb.

One of the big reasons most 410s suck is that tey are choked to tight i had a 870 express that was choked mod. and killed a lot of quail,pheasant and doves. DARREN

Wow... I've been hunting for 5 years now with some make or model of a Remington in 410 and I absolutely LOVE it. I dove hunt with it and love it and pheasant hunt with it and love it, oh, and I've quail and chukar hunted with it too... yep, love it. If Icould figure out the hevi-shot thing, I'd use it on my decoying ducks too! But, just like ANY gun it has it's limitations. I wouldn't bear hunt with it (well, not Alaskan brown or polar bear anyway, maybe blacks with a heavy load of #5's).

Once hunted in an area that was shotgun only. had an old gun smith drill and tap a bolt action .410 for a scope. shot a 1.25" group at 100 Yards with a smooth bore. was a good starter gun for youngsters, I know of 4 youngmen that harvested their first buck with it.

My dad always liked the 410 for squirrels. Did not think you needed anything bigger. My sons started with a double barrel 410. My oldest did not want to stop useing it as he was deadly with it. His younger brother took it over and now feels the say way about it. It's funny what confidence a kid can get when using an"experts gun" as it is sometimes called. And by the way, he shot 10 doves Saturday and it was a very slow day. His brother got his limit of 12 with his 20 guage.

rmill--try the Bismuth on ducks if you can find them. Thats what we use.

Bump for POP

We use ours a lot in moose camp for potshooting grouse. For wing shooting, I stick to my 28.

No, the 410 isn't crap. In a decent gun with an expert wing shooter driving it, it is an effective upland game killer.

It's like using a .222 to kill deer. It will work, but it's not for beginners.

My first gun was a .22/.410 Stevens over and under. It must have been built during the 2nd war as it had a Tenite (plastic)stock. Talk about being ahead of the trends!
In hindsight I now realize I wasn't properly trained in its use and consequently got very little game with the .410.
However, it worked very well for collecting woodchucks around the various farms I hunted as a boy. The .22 barrel was an absolute tack driver.
In later years I bought a Savage .22/20 gauge over/under. The 20 gauge was one of the meanest kicking guns I ever owned (and I presently shoot a .338 Win. Mag. for moose.) Also, it had the heaviest trigger pull of any gun I ever owned. It went about 8 lbs. after it had been worked over by a gunsmith.
Some of our older gun club members who shot a lot of competition in their younger years have now developed flinches. Often they bring out a .410 to try and overcome the flinch. I hate shooting skeet with them because they shoot so much better than I do using larger gauge guns. Some day I have to buy some .410 shells and borrow one of my friends guns and see how well I can do.

I have encountered a lot of grouse and rabbits that didn't seem to understand how useless a .410 is. They probably didn't spend much time studying things like charge weights and pattern density. If they had, they might be alive today.

7STW and Chaser,
The early 9410's were open choked, the later ones offered chote tubes.........However the open choke model 9410 I tested, shot full choke patterns.......How???? Choke is a matter of pattern performance not constriction. The standard constriction for .410's were developed and deterrmined early on when the hulls were brass or paper, the wads were felt and cards, the shot was near pure lead, and the crimp was a card overshot and a roll crimp. Guns like a model 42 or the old singleshots needed constriction with the type of ammo of the day.
Take the 9410 and pattern it against a model 42 or 870 full choke gun and I think you'll see it'll throuw as dense of a pattern.

That all being said, the .410 is a 25 yard gun in an experts hand. You might squeeze it out to 30 yards on doves or quail. I think the 28ga is much more effective at wingshooting, with it's 3/4 oz payload.

Lee24,
How many #2's can you stuff in a 410 3" shell, and what do you think a pattern/velocity at 60 yards would look like?? Someone might kill a mallard at 60 yards by luck with a .410, but not consistently. And 80 Yards?? Lead ain't that good.

All the grouse I killed last year except for one were with a Mossberg 500E .410, with 3in shells #4 or #6. I didn't lose any birds and all but one was a one shot kill. Great rabbit gun as well.