Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting Is 2400-2500 fps possible for rifles?

Blammer, you mentioned arsenic but I don't understand what you mean. I would want to keep away from that stuff.

My goal in all this is to basically do what partitions do with my 9.3x62 with 286 grainers, which have a velocity of 2400 in my 20.5' barrel. I thought it would be fun to make my own high performance bullets on the cheap. I also need a load with that bullet for grouse loads with a target velocity of 1500-1800.

HawkI, that hornet bullet looks perfect. What alloy do you use and how do you heat treat?

Pabuck, trace amounts of arsenic in Wheel Weights (~1/4%) will not harm you if you cast as normal temps and do so in a ventilated area. The temp required to vaporize it is quite a bit higher than most use when casting.

Take a look here; much discussion about hardening lead alloys.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

pa,

I use mostly heat treated WW alloy (with slightly more tin and antimony) to cast the base and used to use an alloy of 1-20 for rifle noses and pure lead for handguns/shotguns/muzzleloaders.

A good rifle alloy without heat treating would be air cooled linotype shank and a WW nose.

Going "arsenic free" isn't necessary and would make the inexpensive part of casting go out the window; it also limits the flexibility that WW alloy provides.

Digitaldan has the arsenic answer.

it's in the WW alloy already so no worries.

it's also present in magnum shot for shotguns or the hardened lead shot for shotguns, you can spoon in a few oz's of magnum lead shot to get the same effect.

Blammer,
Will your gas checks work on a Lyman #358009 286 gr?
whelennut

Pabucktail
I remember a Handloader magazine that had an article
about cast bullets in a 300 win mag.
I believe they wrapped the bullets in teflon tape. I will look for it.

yes they will

One of the things not mentioned so far is the use of paper patch. I know, it sounds almost like black magic and chitt. It ain't. I can patch 50 bullets in an hour, assuming the patch strips are already cut. 30 minutes with the paper cutter and you got yourself a 5 year supply of the damn things.

Anyway, I mention this only because one can run very soft alloys at absurd velocities with this approach. Here's the general rule of thumb for paper patching with SMOKELESS powder. Do not use these specs for BP.

Bullets may be cast for paper patch with or without grease grooves. I prefer smooth sided bullets intended for the application.

-Diameter should equal BORE dimensions.
-Patch to GROOVE dimension.
-Use a flat base bullet design if you expect peak pressures to exceed 35KPSI and are using pure lead. If using a straight wall case you can get some wiggle room with use of a card wad under the bullet. Disregard this if using harder alloy.
-For typical barrel geometry the following dims will work:
The difference between groove and bore in modern guns is typically in the range of .008". Ergo, for a .308 caliber, your bullet should be cast, swagged or sized to .300". Use 9# onionskin paper with at least 25% cotton fiber, long enough to make two complete wraps around the bullet, extending from the transition between ogive and shank to a point long enough to allow you to twist the tail, or just long enough to fold the patch over the base as you prefer. The strip should be damp to wet when applied. It will shrink and result if a very tight "jacket" that is likewise very tough. Load as you would a jacketed bullet, albeit that you must put a slight flare in the case mouth. Lube the patch with 60/40 beeswax and Vaseline applied by finger wipe. Do not roll crimp the case mouth. Taper crimp or just enough with the standard crimp to flatten the flare. You did use a very subtle touch to flare the case mouth, right? Heal the discrepancy in the same spirit. Harshly crimped patches will lead with amazing enthusiasm.

Pure lead bullets so patched can reach about 2,000 fps effectively. Alloyed bullets, such as 50/50 wheel weights and lead are capable of something around 3,000 fps. If you cast and water quench the bullets I'm not sure there is a limit.

I shoot sub MOA with such stuff in two guns. What's in your wallet?



Something died, many bones broken, organs pureed etc...

I've shot quite a few paper patched loads as well, through my 35 Whelen. They do work really well, and can give equal accuracy and higher velocity than jacketed bullets of the same weight. My best load was a 250gr flat nose from Mountain Molds (traditional lube groove & gas check bullet) at 2800 fps, that shot under 3/4" @ 100.

I found results to be just as good using traditional lube groove bullets, you don't have to use a straight sided paper patch bullet. I also found the best results when the paper got compressed by sizing; I wrap as-cast bullets (.360") in plain white printer paper, then push them through a .360" polished Lee sizer die after they dry. This compresses the paper into a hard almost plastic-like shell.

One caveat is don't bother with paper patched bullets through a muzzle brake; the accuracy is terrible.

what's really funny about this thread, there is a guy i have known for years that says he has three different loading manuals that state you should not use lead in excess of 1000fps or you will get leading. I sent him a link to this thread, he saw it and ignored it, which i think is funny as i have been casting for years and know it isn't true, regardles of what the three loading manuals say.
Like the 250grain jobbers in .375winchester i am looking at right now, at a rather sedate 1800fps. No problems.

Paper patching is interesting and definitely has merits, but I live in the rain forest. I doubt such ammo would be happy at the end of a normal day here. The teflon tape idea is interesting, I've never heard of it.

Pabuck, teflon is a transient fad for those who just heard of it. They recover without help from meetings.

Prudently assembled, paper patch bullets aren't weather sissies. No sir, they hold up just dandy. That mangled wad of lead posted above was launched towards the end of a solid afternoon rain that was dropping about 1/2"/hr up in Mississippi. I sat there for near 3 hours wondering just where it was I'd lost my mind.

Ya see, it's the target shooters that as often as not load with dry patch. I don't know they are lazy or think there's an advantage to tell the truth. My own loads have about 1/32" of paper exposed forward of the case mouth and after the patch dries it gets lubed with 50/50 Beeswax and Vaseline. I'm reasonably confident I could leave them in a glass of water for a day or two and they'd still fire when needed. My bullets are tapered...

Whiskey might be another story.

Nothing to add here. Just marking "My Stuff" so I can Learn something here. I want to know about this paper patch stuff. It is very cool indeed!

Somewhere around I have a pic of a target shot sometime back with the patched .77/44. Only 50 yards, but three shots in .6" ain't terrible offhand. It takes a wee bit of time to learn the craft and just a bit more to work up a load. I've yet to have a significant problem in developing loads for anything tried to date. Wrap up good bullets with the right load and it's pretty much a slam dunk.

Having learned the process and such, it takes about 5 minutes to cut enough patches to last a decade. About another hour to patch 50 bullets. Go have some whiskey while they dry, 10 minutes to lube and the rest of your time allocation goes to conventional loading mechanics. I run about 1600 fps out the muzzle with the .44 and a 300 grain bullet. The .45-70 uses 510 grains and gets close enough to 1800 fps to call it. It ain't a load you want to put in a Trapdoor Springfield.

Gibs, check your PM.