Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The day Israel attacked America.

On tonight 9:00 CST.

What network?

Fu*king Jews anyways..........

Well, bet you can skip past Fox in the search.

Or cnn for that matter.

Or ABC, NBC, CBS, Msnbc, BBC, or any of a 1000 other channels...

Bowsinger will be along shortly to set us all straight.

The video clip looks like Al Jazeera America.

I understand that network is full of [bleep] unless they are talking about police abuse, jews and negros - than they are spot fuggin on....

I should have said Bowsinger and RWE will be along shortly to set us all straight.

The purpose of the attack was to destroy the USS Liberty, jam her communications so she couldn't report what was happening to outside US personnel, and to murder every man aboard without exception. The attack was only called off, and the playing of innocence begun, after the Liberty's crew managed to jerry-rig an antenna and get a message out to a nearby US fleet, intercepted by Israel.

Such good friends we have in Israel.

IMO, Al Jazeera America isn't too bad. Way better than MSNBC,CNN and the other 3 networks.

You might give it a shot some time, they actually do a bit of investigative reporting...

KARNAK THE KOOK speaks!

Yeah, God's chosen people.

The self-Chosenites can do no wrong!

Just ask them.

I've seen some of their domestic stuff, its OK.

But you always have to look at whos paying the bills.

Looking for objectivity on Israel from Al J is almost as laughable as TRH's CV.

I agree.

kwg

I didn't watch the clip posted by Ghostinthemachine or any of the other Youtube videos on the subject, but I suggest that you do a little Google fu on USS Liberty and see what happened.

There was never any recourse or full disclosure of reasons for our lack of response to that attack, much like the Benghazi incident.

That incident happened the year before the USS Pueblo fiasco, if you are old enough to remember it. Never seemed to get as much attention as the Pueblo got, though. I was in the Navy at the time, doing the same type of work that those crews were doing and, but for the luck-of-the-draw, I could have been on either ship.

Those two incidents made me so furious that I told the Navy to stick a 10 grand re-enlistment bonus where the light didn't shine, and got out.

Myron

P.S.
It still makes my blood boil every time those are mentioned, that the guys out in front doing the country's bidding, get no support or respect when the chips are down.

Originally Posted By: The_Real_Hawkeye #9053788 - 07/26/14 06:26 PM
I believe I've been clear on my position vis-a-vis Israel. It's a terrorist/apartheid state, an abomination to the Lord, and has been a curse to the world since its inception (which should have been no surprise to anyone who's read the New Testament). It should never have been permitted to be founded, and now that it's founded, it should disappear as a political entity, but it won't. It will continue to be a curse to the world till the Lord comes to set all things aright.

Uh, no.

The distinction is the Israeli government's actions here, not the predominant faith of it's citizens.

Capiche?

Don't like the messenger's evidence?

Please offer your take...

Jorge, I respect your tactical training and mindset.

That is the best you have?

WHY did Israel want to attack and eliminate the entire crew of the Liberty, if indeed that was the plan? What was the end game?

Your ignorance is 100% willful.

And the USS Liberty incident only goes to support my statement above.

Now, let's hear your defense of Israel.

Being a Jew and the Judaic religion are two distinct things. A Scotsman can adopt the Judaic religion, but he won't become a Jew anymore than becoming a French cuisine chef makes one a Frenchman. A Jew is a Jew even if he's an atheist, and this according to Jewish authorities.

Two reasons. Firstly, Israel wanted to start war with Egypt via surprise attack. The US informed them that if they initiated the war, the US would stay out of it. Israel agreed that they would never start the war. So, in order to start the war without the US knowing it, they had to blind US intelligence operations in the region to their activities, which meant, in large part, destroy the USS Liberty. Now, as they saw it, there'd be no use in doing so if there were any survivors to report the attack, thus the destruction/murder had to be complete, starting with the jamming of all communications. Secondly, its utter destruction would serve the purpose of enraging the US against Egypt, whom Israel planned to blame for it, thus also serving as a false flag to bring the US enthusiastically in on the side of Israel against Egypt.

TRH, you're wrong. The war was already going on when the Liberty was attacked. At the time, the US and Israel weren't as "friendly" as they are now. France and the UK were still supporting Israel while we were noncommittal. They didn't know who we would give the Liberty's intelligence gathering to. That being said, it was a despicable act that shouldn't have gone severely unpunished.

War was raging, for sure, but the Liberty's destruction (and murder of all crewmen) was part of a continuing operation to interrupt US intelligence in the region for reasons of deceiving the US about their operations against the Arab states, particularly Egypt. Didn't matter that the Israeli initiation of the war occurred three days earlier, since their operations to interfere with US intelligence operations were ongoing, and the attack on the Liberty was a part of it.

I remember this incident, but not any details. I seem to recall it being portayed as an accident.

It might be interesting to watch, but just keep in mind who is presenting the story. I have noticed a decided bias in the commercials for their "news" shows. I can imagine what the actuals programs are like.

Al Jazeera is owned and operated by people who are not our friends, nor friends of the truth. Whatever the facts are about this incident, you can be sure that the reason they are presenting it, and the slant they give it will above all, be designed to weaken our relationship with Israel.

The documentary only restates the information that's been available about the incident for decades to anyone interested in seeking it out via original sources. The reason most aren't familiar with the details is that the MSM and the education establishment, not to mention the US Government, has been dominated by organized Jewry for that long and longer, which is heavily invested in America having a favorable attitude towards Israel and an unfavorable one towards her immediate enemies.

"Accidents" don't last as long as the attack on the Liberty lasted. It was clearly marked as a US Navy vessel and was flying our flag.

Really? haha

thanks SAC, now if we only got TV at our house



cracks me up you still have that poster as your sig line

you might as well have Pelosi and Reid in that pic


they were in charge and we got the unACA, and increased salaries and benefits for the Senate and Congress


I'm not sure we'd be better off with the two gas bags in your pic, but the two gasbags I mentioned really do suck donkey schlong....doncha think?

Imagine, the US Navy being unable to figure out that the Israeli government blew up and sunk without a single survivor, a US Naval vessel, and then put false Egyptian flags over the whole operation.

This plan was doomed to fail from the start.

But yet, they weren't punished. They paid monetary reparations 15 years later, but so what? They still thumb their noses at us whenever they want but want our protection and we give it to them.

I've written my opinions on the subject and on what I think happened extensively. Same goes for my opinion on the existence of Israel and how it came about. That said, TRH's "factual" description of what happened, down to apparently the most minute detail of Israel's reasoning, is insanity, coming from an insane's mind...

I don't have an opinion on the story at this point as I've not done the research. I simply don't trust Al Jazeera to present an honest version, based on who THEY are, anymore than I trust the MSM to tell the truth about the Democrats. It's possible to relate factual information in such a way as to decieve. The MSM does it all the time.

Didn't say it was an accident, just that that's the way they played it. Even in my lifetime, lots of countries have been caught in dirty tricks. Ever hear of the Gulf of Tonkin?

Countries are going to do whatever they think benefits them at the time. Nobody's hands are clean.

I agree with this. So watching the show (or not) with an understanding of probable bias makes sense.

I bolded a sentence which I also agree with. I believe the sentence would also be true if you inserted CNN, Fox, NBC, TBN, TCM, or MSNBC.

Broadcasting is a business. People start, run and operate Networks to make money.

If you find a network you think you can trust, watch out. They are making money off you.

It is a business, not a service. get it?

Sycamore

Right you are. For a lot of them, it's also a crusade. That's even more dangerous.

See Jorge's post immediately below yours. I was being sarcastic.

You do realize that 96% of the entire western world's media, the MSM, is owned, operated and controlled by Jews, right?

If you think you're EVER getting the straight poop about Israel or any other Jewish interests you're sadly mistaken.

Friendly fire incident and the IDF was up front about it from the start, to say other wise is pure BS, Its not like we never had a Friendly fire incident in our history now, I can recall a few in the last 15 years, there is the smart bombs that landed on an A-team and members of the northern alliance, then there was that mistake in Gulf War I were a pair of A-10 hosed down the british, then there is the opening days of Operation Cobra in world war two, B-17 unloaded on our own troops and the highest ranking American officer to be Killed in Action was the result of it. In war this sort of thing while tragic, is also to be expected, that is if you plan on winning the wars you are forced to fight, while the Israelis are no angles, nobody is, they are pretty restrained when it comes to their ability to project power, they fight when forced to no more no less and for them all it takes is for them to just loose one, and they are gone, so in the 60 + years of their existence , they have a military excellence that is second to none, never mind what they do in the hard sciences and engineering, few in number but a lot of noble prize winners! I will take the Jews and Israel over anybody else in the Middle East and in Europe with the Exception of Great Britain any day of the week if it came to pass that I would have to leave America! But I will put my two cents into what happened with the liberty, an World War Two era ship, a lot of nations at the time had similar vessels, the Israeli Airforce was flying around the clock, we are talking about an air force at the time of 200 airplanes or less, flying 5 to 6 strikes a day, my guess it was a combination of mistaken identity and pilot fatigue. Lack of good rest is better understood now than then, it was a accident nothing more, it happens

What I realize is that there is an abundance of evil in the world, and it's pretty much evenly divided up between the various races, religions, and nationalities. At some point in history, just about every nation has been guilty of some treachery or atrocity. Someone looking for someone to blame for their troubles or the world's troubles doesn't have to go very far. Race baiters and dictators have been living off this stuff all through history.

I try to form my opinions on facts and reason rather than blind predjudice, propaganda, and hate, but then again I also prefer to use my sheets for bedding rather than evening wear.

And there it is.

Anybody that questions the dubious motives of Jewish media domination is either a Klan member or a Nazi. Right?

You been programmed very well by your Jew masters.

Don't understand your statement at all. You're calling the crewmen of the Liberty liars. What do they gain by lying? The ones that gained by lying were Israel and LBJ.

My father's division liberated at least one death camp at the end of WW2. The books published by his regiment and division after the war have lots of pictures that show the result of the kind of programming your masters engaged in.

Oh, I forgot; that never happened. Right?

This has been posted many times and has been found to be a complete waste of time for those anti-Israel individuals who do not want their little conspiracy world messed up with the facts.

SansSouci -Were you good with Israel declaring war on us and murdering US sailors?

The only thing that was �proven� was Fog of War.

The attack on the USS Liberty is a fine example of anti-Israel propaganda.
Never mind that all those many investigations found it to be caused by the fog that occurs in all wars.

Including Israeli pilots who testified under oath that they first radioing for a S&R for Egyptian survivors.
Never mind that...all part of the cover up.

Except...that in 48 years it never happened again and no one has ever come up with any reasonable reason why Israel would attack their biggest and most steadfast ally.

YOU CANNOT FIX STUPID.

All of the supposed 'death' camps were liberated by the Russians. Are you Russian?

You're right, I don't believe in the Holohoax.

Because we weren't their biggest ally at the time. Also, to claim it was a friendly fire accident is wrong. It wasn't just one or two passes, the attack continued for some time. I've seen pictures of the Liberty, it looks just like a USN vessel. They claim that they thought it was an Egyptian cattle ship-BS. It's amazing how people will believe governmental findings back then, yet not believe them today.

Did they ever do it again?

Kaufering, a sub-camp of Dachau, located in Landsberg, Bavaria. Liberated April 27, 1945.

I can understand your confusion. There's probably no mention of Kaufering in the KKK comic book you apparently learned your history from.

At first I thought there was the possibility of a discussion here, but this is like trying to teach my dog to stop pissing on the strawberries. It ain't in his nature.

Typhus and starvation killed the vast majority of them near the end of the war after the Allies destroyed their food supply lines. The poison gas was for killing lice in their clothes. Lice carried typhus. The same reason for the shaved heads. The showers were just that, showers for lice elimination.

Large numbers of Jews were arrested because world Jewry had declared war on Germany since before open hostilities had begun. We did the same to the Japanese after Pearl Harbor. Had the Axis powers destroyed supply lines to our internment camps and conquered the U.S., they would have discovered lots of dead Japanese, dead from starvation and typhus.

Right! And the ovens were for baking cookies.

They were for disposing of the victims of typhus, of which there were many.

Hawk,

I say this with the utmost respect. But you are crazy to believe the ovens "were for disposing of the victims of typhus"

Hard to believe that with all the evidence, trials, testimony, etc etc etc ad nauseum people continue to deny and feel obligated to defend some terribly horrible, evil people.

I ain't no genius but I know a human being when I see 'em and treat them accordingly.

That's because you have never really looked into it. To believe the myth, you have to believe that the Germans were cremating roughly 4000 Jews at day with very few 'ovens' at the six 'death camps'. A body needs 2 hours to be cremated at very high heat. The numbers simply don't add up at all and the logistics are impossible. In addition, the amount of coke needed to keep those fires burning nonstop would've had to be 200 feet tall. There isn't one photo showing large quantities of coke at any of the camps.

This-Man
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/17/a-uss-libertys-heros-passing/

So our state dept. had to get permission from Israel before the Liberty shipper could receive the Medal of Honor. WOW

Wow,
Sad,
Phuqed-Up................




Yeah.

The Liberty survivors had no idea why they were being shot at by Israel. Getting shot at and watching your shipmates die would tend to form strong and biased opinions.

The seven US and the three Israel's investigations between 1967 and 1982 proves that the Fog of War continued long after the Liberty attack.
Swore testimony and radio transcripts does not agree. The ship did or did not look like a Egyptian warship or freighter. At a speed of five knots and the ship flag with no breeze was seen or not seen. Same with the blue Star of David on warplane fuselages. Some sailors clearly saw the markings and some were certain the planes had no markings.

In 2007 NSA did a summary of events:
[...]
How the attack unfolded
National Security Agency documents recount the hours leading up to, during and after the attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli forces that killed 34.
EVENTS OF JUNE 8, 1967
6 a.m. An Israeli reconnaissance plane spots an unidentified ship 70 miles west of Tel Aviv.
9 a.m. A second Israeli reconnaissance plane spots an unidentified ship 20 miles north of El-Arish. Liberty's position is plotted on a map in green, designating a "neutral ship."
10:55 a.m. A naval liaison officer at Israeli Air Force headquarters informs Israeli Naval Headquarters that the previously unidentified ship is an "audio-surveillance ship of the U.S. Navy" named Liberty.
11 a.m. The acting chief of Israeli naval operations orders removal of Liberty from a plot table because he is no longer certain of its position.
11:30 a.m. The Israeli Navy receives an erroneous report that El-Arish is being shelled from the sea.
12:05 p.m. Three motor torpedo boats (MTBs) are ordered to proceed toward El-Arish.
THE ATTACK ON THE LIBERTY
1:56 p.m. Two Israeli Mirage III aircraft, followed by two Super Mystere aircraft, begin their attack on the Liberty.
2:14 p.m. The chief Israeli air controller in Tel Aviv tells the controller who is directing the attack on the Liberty that the ship is "apparently American."
2:20 p.m. The Israeli naval commander orders the commander of the Torpedo Boat Division to attack the Liberty. At almost the same time, the Naval Operations Branch orders: "Do not attack. It is possible that the aircraft have not identified correctly." The commander of the Torpedo Boat Division says he never got any order to cease the attack, although the deputy commander says he passed the message to the commander.
2:24 p.m. Liberty sights three MTBs 4-5 miles away and closing fast.
2:26 p.m. Liberty raises its largest American flag, the "Holiday colors."
2:27 p.m. Three torpedo boats begin strafing the Liberty and launch their six torpedoes.
THE AFTERMATH
2:29 p.m. Starting time for an NSA tape of Israeli communications after the attack. A previous tape, which presumably would have captured the air and torpedo attacks, is missing.
3:07 p.m. Israeli helicopters sent to rescue Liberty crewman from the sea arrive and "orbit" the heavily damaged vessel.
3:12 p.m. The helicopters' communications with the ground are intercepted by an American aircraft circling high above the scene. One helicopter pilot reports that he sees an American flag flying from the Liberty's mast.
3:16 p.m. An Israeli ground controller orders the helicopters to return to El Arish
Sources: National Security Agency documents, Chicago Tribune reporting

I don't defend any of the many horrors committed by all sides during that war. I resent being propagandized however, and prefer the truth to lies.

PS With the application of vices to testicles, all sorts of confessions and testimony can be acquired.

The topic at hand aside, that's good stuff.

One time. Just once. Back your �truth� with something other than just your opinion.
You were challenged back in July to support your �truth� that Israel is a genocidal ethnic cleansing State.
You never did.

We have had this dance before.

Originally Posted By: Ghostinthemachine
There were no gas chambers and the 6 million figure is a load of schit.
Riddle me this. If roughly half of the world Jewish Population was gassed in WW2, please explain how in the hell their world population rose by 1 million from 1938-47. Quite a feat.
The entire thing is a hoax.

Originally Posted By: BOWSINGER
The cataloged 42,500 European sites that have been identified, mapped, and cross-checked researched varied greatly in size.

The biggest site is the Warsaw Ghetto witch topped out at about 500,000. The smallest hometown ghettos processed as few as a dozen each.

The breakdown: the biggest category were the 30,000 slave labor camps, followed by 1,150 Jewish ghettos and about 1000 prisoner-war camps and 980 concentration camps; 500 sex slave brothels and �thousands of other camps used for euthanizing the elderly and infirm, performing forced abortions, �Germanizing� prisoners or transporting victims to killing centers.�

It all started in 1933 with about 110 concentration camps that held more than 10,000 political opponents of the Nazis.

As Germany invaded and occupied Eastern Europe, they built more and more camps for the Jews but also for all the homosexuals, Gypsies and Jehovah's Witnesses, Poles and Russians and other ethnic groups that they came across.

So the total estimated number of killed and imprisoned has increased to 15-20 million.

They have been put together in the past 13 years by researchers at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Because the numbers have been revised so much higher, the researchers doubled-down making sure they are verified.

And before you numb-nuts can holler �Jewish Propaganda,� these numbers are being used in the courts of many counties to settle claims against insurance companies. These numbers are solid. .

That's worth saving.

This one, too.

Now tell us again how the people of Germany loved Jews for hundreds of years and welcomed them as valued members of German society until the Jews treacherously provoked them to commit mass murder, which the Germans otherwise would never have done, the poor, gentle lambs.

Oh, right, that last part never happened.

You have GOT TO BE the biggest MORON in the history of this forum and if you are REALLY a teacher in this state, no wonder our kids are where they are today. What an idiot.

The Germans were and are meticulous in their record keeping. Ghost just refuses to entertain the notion there were volumes of documents, recovered and ADMITTED to by the Germans on the accuracy of the number of jews killed, which was not quite 6M. Hatred apparently consumes the brain it seems.

are you high?

To be perfectly candid, I really don't know what happened and for damned sure, MORONS like TRH sureasfuck don't either.

Based on my experience of many thousands of hours overflying ships doing SSC and trying to ID ships, often time almost in stall buffet so we could see better, flags are almost impossible to see. Given it was wartime for the Israelis and indeed a war of survival for them, I can see where they could have fired in error given their ROE. That said, I do not, nor have I ever trusted the Israelis and would not have put this by them as they are of the "anything goes if it mens the survival of Israel" mentality. As to LBJ, he was a disgusting, criminal SOB and a pox upon this country. We will never know what really happened, but when KOOKS like TRH and others put forth their theories as FACT, well I'm just not going to let them get away without a response. Cheers, jorge

This right here as well as many other of you and your buddies little gems prove how stupid you guys really are.

Rereading my posts about the Fog of War I see I forgot to include that the day before the attack, Israeli warplanes bombed the $hit out of one of their own armored columns.

Translation:

I agree with the kooks but I have to be politically correct on the matter, so I'll agree with them and bitch about them at the same time and see if it gets me by.

Well, at least you're admitting you're thinking is "kookish". Good first step. As to me EVER being politically correct is a clear indication on how clueless you are on the issue and so full of yourself, you didn't even take the time to comprehend what I wrote.

That said, please provide factual evidence the attack on the Liberty was a deliberate one. Starting with the pre-strike briefing of the Strike Lead conducting the mission would be a good start.. Also, while am at it, just how many times have you overflown ships at at least 200kts and tried to identify their nationality?

HINT: about 50% of the time we overflew ships, unless they were obvious warships (The Liberty incidentally was not), we were not able to identify them until the film made it back to CVIC (the Carrier's intel shop). BUt do carry on with your expertise on the subject..

*shrugg*,...all I know is what I read in the jewspaper.

All I can say is wow

Must be the USS Liberty attack in 1968. Israel deliberately attacked a US Navy ship in international waters and killed a number of sailors.

But .. but ... but, Israel apologized. Doesn't that make up for the attack?

How would you rationalize the tattooing of serial numbers on Jews incarcerated at Auschwitz? Many were small children when they were given the tattoo.

I've seen in person with my own eyes the tattoo on a couple of elderly Jews.

I also attended high school with several Jewish kids who were children, grandchildren, niece and nephews of Auschwitz survivors. They said that their relatives still had the fading tattoos.

Might as well not waste your time. There are a lot of good folks on here, I know because some are my friends. This small bunch is the "fire" crazies.

Tattooing people was the least of the bad acts committed by governments during WWII.

Yep...

re: USS Liberty

see:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-liberty_tuesoct02-story.html#page=1

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/06/23/who-perpetrated-the-holohoax/
Who perpetrated the �Holohoax�? Tell us!
Posted by Orac on 6/23/06
Holocaust deniers sometimes refer to the Holocaust as the �Holohoax,� as if the whole thing were one huge hoax perpetrated on the world by Jews.

Indeed, if you have the stomach to dive into the deepest, darkest, most disgusting parts of the Internet, where Holocaust deniers freely spew their lies, you will even find explicit assertions that the Holocaust is nothing but a hoax that the Jews used to justify the formation of the State of Israel and to collect reparation money.
Indeed, do a Google search for the term �Holohoax� and you will find well over 43,000 entries. That the Holocaust was a �hoax� is almost religion among a significant number of deniers.

Years ago, I used to have a bit of fun with pinheaded Holocaust deniers on alt.revisionism by asking them explicitly in as innocent a tone as I could manage: If the Holocaust was indeed a hoax, who, specifically, was responsible for it?

I would qualify my question by adding that just saying �the Jews� is not an adequate answer. I wanted to know which Jews.
Just saying �Zionists� was not adequate. I wanted to know which Zionists. I wanted names! I wanted dates! I wanted the who, what, when, where, and why! But, above all, I wanted evidence to show that these people actually perpetrated this �hoax.�

Are such questions all that unreasonable? After all, it�s the deniers who are arguing for a conspiracy that would have to be so massive and secretive that nothing like it had ever been seen before or has ever been seen since.

Oddly enough, no Holocaust denier was able to answer my simple, direct question.
[�]
If you want evidence of the utter ludicrousness of the whole �Holohoax� claim by Holocaust deniers, plunge in.
If you have a really strong stomach for racist conspiracy-monger (and tolerance for self-abuse), you could even read the entire original, unedited thread for yourself.
There�s some unintentionally hilarious stuff there, but there�s also some really idiotic pontificating. (Come to think of it, a lot of the idiotic pontificating and hand waving is pretty funny, too. Funny and pathetic.)

And, of course, deniers whose off-topic or unresponsive answers were removed whine and cry about �censorship.�
Par for the course for Holocaust deniers.
Come to think of it, the whole thread me of the old days back in alt.revisionism, if it had been a moderated newsgroup. Deniers haven�t changed a bit.

So, the next time you hear anyone use the term �Holohoax,� try to pin them down. Ask them who perpetrated the �hoax� and how. Don�t let them get away with saying just �the Jews� or the �Allies.�
Make them be specific. Make them name names. It�s great fun to make deniers squirm that way.

Edinburgh, Monday, November 26, 2001

Mass Graves Confirm Sobibor Holocaust
Allan Hall
In Berlin
POLISH archaeologists have found mass graves at the Sobibor extermination camp -- damning evidence that gives the lie to Holocaust deniers.
Sobibor, one of the four main extermination camps of the Nazi regime, was evacuated and destroyed on the orders of the SS chief Heinrich Himmler in October 1943, after an uprising by inmates.
The British Holocaust denier David Irving claimed during his libel trial -- which he lost last year -- that he had never heard of the camp. In an exchange with a lawyer, he was asked about the existence of Nazi death camps in Poland and said: "Treblinka I am becoming uncertain about. Sobibor I know nothing of." [Website comment: See transcripts, page 242, day 2, Jan 12, 2000]

Like the three other extermination centres -- Belzec, Treblinka and Chelmno -- Sobibor was situated deep in Poland where an efficient rail network married to remote areas gave the Nazis the perfect means to build their human abattoirs. Sobibor was grassed over and reforested after the SS pulled out and has only recently been under forensic examination.

The discoveries of the seven mass graves will provide invaluable material for Holocaust academics about the numbers who died there.

According to official Polish accounts, 250,000 people were killed in Sobibor, which was opened in May 1942 and lies close to the eastern border with Ukraine. Most victims were from the Warsaw ghetto and died within hours of arriving there, although there was an adjacent work camp holding Russian prisoners of war.

The detainees were told they were going to be deloused and were led to the "showers." These were in fact gas chambers linked up to the exhaust systems of large diesel engines of the sort used in U-boats: it was a crude method of extermination; the victims, many of them children, often took up to 30 minutes to die.

"We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of 15ft. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay. That means that in the final stage the victims were burned," said Andrzej Kola, an archaeologist. He said the largest grave measured 210ft by 75ft, the others 60ft by 75ft.

"We also found a hospital barracks. The people there were probably shot, as we found over 1,800 machine gun cartridges," Mr Kola said. "In the woods we found remnants of barbed wire, which enabled us to reconstruct the boundary of the camp."

Just 52 people survived Sobibor from the thousands sent there. Among them were some of the 300 who broke out of the camp on 14 October, 1943. Eighty were caught soon after escaping, but a handful survived the war...

Bad enough that this evil ever occurred in the first place, but we now, even two generations after, are subjected to the spectacle of moral defectives trying to cover it up.

No vice hear, but lets hear the truth.

Public School Teacher of what and where?

Methinks your claims here have been a little stretched and as much as you'd want people to think your some kind of educated authority, I think you are just as guilty of propagandizing - in wholistic Troll-like fashion.

That's disturbing.