Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 357 vs 45 Colt

I need help here please. I'm a rifle guy, so will state my handgun ignorance up-front. I have a Ruger GP100 in .357 Mag. as my one all-around handgun (save for my .22). That GP100 goes with me when I'm out, but when I go hunting by myself, I leave that home with the wife just in case. There, there's my excuse to buy another handgun. This gun will mostly be for protection against that 1 in a million chance a bear or mountain lion (AZ black bear) decides to do something crazy, but it would be fun to plink with it too. Locally I've found a couple Ruger Birds Head Vaqueros - one in .357Mag., one in .45 Colt. Is the BHV the best woods gun in the world? I'd guess no. Is it what I want? Yep, so I'm getting one. The question now, which one? I know a .357 can be loaded any way a person wants. 38's can plink with the best of them, and heavy loads should do good things against critters up close. Honestly, my main concern is the noise. I've let off a .357 without hearing protection once (ok, twice - in a row). The first was dumb, the second was stupid - so my friends told me later since I couldn't hear them at the time. I've shot a friend's hand-loaded 38 and the report was extremely mild, but, what would that load do against the head of a big cat or black bear? I have read where .45 Colts are loaded so mild in most cases, that one's ears would survive a shot without hearing protection should the occasion arise. I hear those cowbow loads are really mild, but how would they fare again beast? The .357 has a 4 3/4" barrel which to me looks better. Plus, I could shoot the same ammo as my GP 100. For practical purposes, the .45's 3 3/4" barrel might pack a little easier...

I'm going to stop rambling on there. Any insight would be appreciated.

In the BHV, I'd say the .357, and only for a few reasons, and really, only in this situation over the .45LC:

1) you already have a .357; you're familiar with it and have ammo and brass;

2) the BHV is based on a smaller/lighter frame than the Blackhawk, which means you can't load the little BHV hot enough to get everything out of the .45LC, without that option, why bother?

3) Loud is loud; any hot loaded .357 or .45LC is going to be LOUD. Practice with hearing protection. If you have to use either in the field against a bear or cat, you'll not worry or care about the noise.

I always considered the .357 useful for North American critters
up to maybe 300 lbs. To me that would include cougars, black
bears, and more importantly, two legged predators. I am not
convinced that even the most hotly loaded .357 will stop
a determined adult grizzly. A hot .45LC might. But as noted
there is additional risk in using exteremly hot .45LC.

(Although I read about a case in Alaska where .40 was used to
drive off what turned out to be a sow with young cubs. All had
to be put down later.)

Generally, I agree with VaNimrod.

I also pretty much agree with VANimrod. The .357 has a great reputation for good reason, and since you've already got one, life remains somewhat more simple by buying a second handgun in the same caliber. If you later decide to start reloading, you can find .38spl brass for next to free, and load decent +P loads for practice.

IMO a person who reloads could prolly get more ballistic advantage from the .45colt, even without loading it to hot "Ruger Only" levels, simply because the larger bore allows heavier lead to move faster with less pressure. Also considering that both guns you're looking at have relatively short barrels, you'll have a hard time getting all that a .357 has to offer ballistically. And to my ears a hot .357 is LOUD, but so is a hot .45Colt. For practice use earplugs, and for defense use that front sight and a cool head.

I ended up making a short answer long because I'm a .45Colt nut. Even so, considering the pistol bug hasn't bitten you yet, and you already own a .357, I'd still give the .357 my vote for your situation.
222

Hmmm, there is a drawback to a Vaquero. Fixed sights. Caliber?? For your stated purpose, I'd say a 357 mag Blackhawk or a Ruger Security Six w/ adjustable sights. Nice thing about 357's, you can carry 38 spl swc ammo and take small game nicely. 2 MTM ammo wallets give you 18 rds of 357 and 18 rds of 38 without hogging up much space. If I were restricted to one pistol (horrors) I'd go with what you already have.

As evil twin implied you have two issues, one is caliber and the second is the choice of handguns. First caliber, while I don't consider the 357 to be an optimum caliber in your choice I certainly consider it adequate. In the 357, I consider the 180 grain bullet the optimum bullet in a hard cast or a TMJ, (truncated metal jacket). The next is your choice of handguns. I don't consider the BHV the optimum choice of guns but having several Vaqueros myself I understand your attraction to them, the problem is bullet placement in rounds from 38 special to 357 180's. You would be WAY ahead to pick the standard blackhawk. They are very strong but with the addition of adjustable sights would give you a real advantage but the similar feel to the Vaquero.

There are some very good thoughts here, thank you. You've helped me narrow down my question - which now is...is the mild .45 Colt factory ammo (with the right bullet) enough to fend off a crazy critter? If not, and I have to use hotter (and louder) loads either way, I suppose either would do the trick - but I probably would lean toward the .357. It is very flexible, and I could just buy ammo for one cartridge and use it in two guns. I handload for my rifles, but haven't tried it for handguns yet.

If you're already a competent reloader then the learning curve is fairly quick for handguns. If you're willing to reload then BOTH calibers will benefit from the flexibility/economy of building your own ammo.

IMO, the really good .45Colt performance comes from reloading simply because there isn't a market flooded with ammo choices like for the .357. In reality though, you only really need one good defensive load, and then a cheaper practice/plink/have fun load. I've never shot the Cowboy loads, but they look OK for the latter use, and not the former.

Plan on earplugs when shooting handguns. I wouldn't make my selection based solely on the noise level.

AZ,
I used to own several .357's, for the reasons you state, including a Ruger GP 100.

I no longer own any .357's, having sold them all, and instead, own a total of five .45's. Why? Because a full-house .357 has a nasty, sharp, painful report when fired. Without ear protection, it is something you don't want to do twice.

I practice with Cowboy loads, and handload for hunting. I find the noise level of the .45 to be acceptable, even with the occasional shot taken without hearing protection.

I tried to make the .357 mag. 'my' cartridge and beat out my buddies who were shooting the new Smith and then the Ruger Blackhawk in the just out 44 maggy.

I had a new Python and a new Smith with the 8 3/8" barrel too. We all loaded our own and I had problems with both 357's with leading. Back then there were no or few jacketed hunting bullets.

We would shoot stuff and plink and the 44's would hit anything much harder. The other thing is that the 357 has a terrible noise. Then I got one of the first Blackhawks in .45 Colt and that is a fabulous gun. I was lucky to get a multi cavity Saeco mold for the flat nose SWC bullet and I made bullets from linotype. Besides some crazy loads with the now available jacketed bullets I loaded 9.0 grs of Unique and it made just about 1000 fps from the 7.5" barrel. Thats a very effective and hard hitting load.

The .45's report is far less than a 357 and it hits much harder on varmints at least. I don't hunt big game with a pistol. Hunting is much too hard here for that.

Fellas, I wholeheartedly agree on the superiority of the .45LC to the .357.

Except that the New Model Vaquero handicaps the .45LC to low-moderate load levels.

Now, if AZ_Southpaw would consider a standard Blackhawk the equations would be FAR different. That'd give you everything you can get out of a .45LC.

Either way, he ain't gonna make a bad choice. If it were my choice, it'd be a 4 3/4" or 5.5" SS Blackhawk (preferably with Bisley grip frame) in .45LC. Be it no legged, 2-legged, or large or small 4-legged, it'll handle it with ease.

45 Colt gets my vote

Mine also........................ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

VA is a smart feller and gives good advice�You�d be just fine with his recommendation for the .357

But�

Even in standard pressure loads, the .45 Colt is a better killer than the .357. It comes down to the fact that it slings a big heavy bullet that tends to crash through things well. In Black Bear country I routinely carry a standard pressure .45 Colt with my handload of a 275 grain Keith style bullet at just under 900 fps. I�ve used this load to shoot through the skull of a dying cow and through the shoulder of a pissed off cow. It�s a good load.

Even Elmer Keith said that if he was confined to factory ammunition, he�d take a Black Powder loaded, factory .45 Colt over anything else�And he said this in a time when the .357 Magnum existed. In fact, that was when the .357 was a bit hotter than it is today. You�ll also find that the .45 Colt is a lot less offensive to the ears�But honestly, all handguns are loud to me.

So, I�d say that either cartridge will serve you fine�The real part is up to you. You say you�re a rifle kind of guy�Well, shooting a handgun is a whole different world and if you cant put �em where they count, the caliber debate is a bit academic.

You�re in a good situation�Either choice is a good one, so get the gun you like and learn how to make it sing.

Well...I just had a wrench thrown in the whole thing. I'm not big into astrological signs, but I'm a Gemini to the T. I usually cannot decide one way or the other and I work hard to find the strong points on both sides of any decision. It took a while to finally decide on the Birds Head, but I made my decision and I'm happy about it. Then this afternoon I talked to my sister (who can outshoot me with a handgun any day of the week). Turns out a friend of hers decided to get rid of her late husband's guns. I don't know her or him, but may he rest in peace. Part of the collection included a color-case Vaquero with ivory grips in .357. It's supposedly is in great condition and it was worked over by Bob James of Phoenix. Long story short - she offered to transfer the arm over to me for what she paid. Sounds like for a little under $300, I could own the piece and still have enough to take my bride out to dinner (and let her Super Size it). Decisions, decisions!

The Vaquero, Birdshead or otherwise and NOT the NEW Vaquero, will take any load the standard 45 Colt Blackhawk will. I have been doing it for a long time and John Linebaugh builds 500 LB's on the Vaquero frame. I would, without question, buy the 45 Colt over the 357. It is far more effective with reasonable or real thumper loads than the 357. Here's one I have used on hogs with the 325 gr LBT LFN at 1250 fps with zero issue and extreme effectiveness. It is what I carry around the mountains at my place in Idaho for your very same reason.

AZ_Southpaw;

Take the latest offer; that's too sweet to pass up.

Tony, a regular Vaquero will do what you said, regardless of grip frame; the NM Vaquero won't. Just to clarify... or muddy... this thread.

I'll vote 45 Colt too. You need hearing protection with either and conversely, neither is going to damage you too much if you have to pop a couple off in an emergency situation. The 45 Colt's report is much less offensive though.

I don't "hot load" the 45 Colt anymore. I think that 9 grain Unique load is a "Colt" load, if I'm not mistaken. (As opposed to the Ruger/TC Contender only load level.) It's pretty salty. I'm not countenencing it or any reload though, due to liability.

I think there are plenty of decent factory loads that will prove adequate for your tasks in the 45. There is nothing wrong with 357 but I think the 45 will serve you better.

All that said, in the real world, you need to snap up that little .357. It's a buy and the difference between the c'atridges ain't enough to worry about when a buy like that is placed before you.

AZ southpaw,
Back when I turned 21 the first order of business for me was heading over to Jims Gun&Pawn over on Yadkin Blvd and pay for a Ruger BlackHawk convertible 45LC/45ACP 5.5"!
I had to wait a week for the permit to purchase but it was mine al the same!
Now 25years later that same BlackHawk still rides with me.
Back in 1992 my wife bought me a Ruger GP-100 SS 6" 357mag.
While out and about the GP-100 shoots alot flatter on distant targets but the BlackHawk feels right.
My load in the BlackHawk is 10.0grains of HS-6 under a 250grain cast SWC-GC.It comes out at 890fps over the chronograph.
I did load some of the "Ruger only" loads but found the whole enjoyability factor of the pistol left with them!
At 30yards the 250grain bullets took both lungs and broke the off-side shoulder on a 156lb doe(dressed out-windpipe to bung)this past November!
A good hard cast 45 caliber bullet at 900fps will suffice.
If not and you go with the 357,Hornady makes a 180grain Silhouette that will break both shoulders on SC boar(their lungs are located between the not behind the shoulders like deer)from a Marlin 1894C 357mag 18.5"barrel without worry of mushrooming!
Either way you go no matter what caliber you choose,you cannot be wrong!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Mike

"a regular Vaquero will do what you said, regardless of grip frame; the NM Vaquero won't"

I believe I wrote the "same"?

"The Vaquero, Birdshead or otherwise and NOT the NEW Vaquero, will take any load the standard 45 Colt Blackhawk will"