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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
America is good at a lot of things, just not everything...
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,712 Likes: 2 |
I like reading about all of the POS New Haven guns. I bought a used 416 Rem M70, swapped in an as delivered Williams extractor ($50), sent the bolt to Dan for a bit of TIG ($50) and I worked the trigger a bit. I dropped it into a McM stock (still not bedded) and proceeded to throw multiple three's into 1 1/2" at a 100 using old original 400 gr Barnes softpoints. It feeds and extracts bare brass as fast as I can move the bolt without fault. Still debating if I should bed it...
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Aug 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I think people like the whole 'original' thing, and to be honest, I do too. The thing is, how do we measure quality? Modern machines regardless of where the machine is situated in the world can produce highly accurate rifles as parts will be made to exact specs. On the other hand we can look at old Rigby rifles that was definitely not remembered for their accuracy (meaning that parts was not made that precise) but were hand made and is supposed to be what some see as top quality. Which of the two is better quality then? I am one of those people that would rather tinker with an 'original' rifle and make it more or less as accurate as something modern (it is kind of rewarding)  Pieter
Last edited by m77; 12/04/14.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
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If the mood strikes I'll take any of them regardless of place of origin. Father of a girl I used to date collected Winchesters. By that I mean he was seeerious about it, in that his goal was at least one nice example of each model. With 70s he had a bunch of configurations and cartridges. With 12s he had the same in gauges and configurations. I doubt he is still at the game, but if so I would suspect he would have to have a Portugal Model 70. Think about it, the only original is serial number 1. 
Last edited by battue; 12/04/14.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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The thing is, how do we measure quality? Modern machines regardless of where the machine is situated in the world can produce highly accurate rifles as parts will be made to exact specs. On the other hand we can look at old Rigby rifles that was definitely not remembered for their accuracy (meaning that parts was not made that precise) but were hand made and is supposed to be what some see as top quality. Which of the two is better quality then?
Pieter
Today, I think a combination of both. Toss in basic design, materials, quality of parts,and construction (assembly in particular). I have seen a fair number of rifles that refused to shoot and function well due to poor assembly than many other issues....meaning they had enough wrong when they were put together that they did not shoot their best, or work as they should. As to function, Phil Shoemaker did a side bar article on this referring to it as the "Final 10%",or something like that, the finishing touches many rifles do not get that take them from just OK to great. Some of this is understandable since makers can't sell us rifles for a grand or so with all these final touches and hands on tweaking...some we have to do ourselves. We know all about it from the accuracy standpoint because we pay accuracy smiths to square up receivers to barrels, re turn action threads,bed stocks and other stuff like that. All this stuff costs money. Problem is a lot of us expect this with any factory rifle just because we pay $800 bucks for it and expect to get it all. Inexpensive rifles are more accurate today than they used to be but accuracy is half the story in a real quality rifle. Hard to get it all for little money.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
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With the current bic rifle trend that is becoming more prevalent with American manufactures, that Portugal 70 may be a future cherished classic of how they used to make them.
These just may be the good old days.
Last edited by battue; 12/04/14.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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"Bic Rifle"! LMAO!
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
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Were the latest 70's that came out of Columbia SC that bad or did they just pull up and go to Portugal for the cheaper labor rates?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Oldelk: Damned if I know what's going on....I owned 4 and shot a 5th and they all shot great,functioned perfectly and were eager to please.
But this was within the first year or two of production in SC... maybe things have slipped I don't know.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
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Oldelk: Damned if I know what's going on....I owned 4 and shot a 5th and they all shot great,functioned perfectly and were eager to please.
But this was within the first year or two of production in SC... maybe things have slipped I don't know. Reason I ask is that CDNN has a pretty good inventory of 70's(Columbia SC) in inventory...ultimate shadows,featherweights.sporters and super grades that are pretty tempting. I had a 308 for a bit and it was a very nice gun.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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"Bic Rifle"! LMAO! I like it too!  I think a new Campfire term can be added to our lexicon...
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Well if they chambered something I wanted I sure would not be afraid to buy one...which is the only reason I don't still have those I bought. Too much duplication of cartridges but it wasn't because they did not work and shoot well. Ingwe: I'm still chuckling over that one! This place is like a Saturday Night Live skit.
Last edited by BobinNH; 12/04/14.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
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Well if they chambered something I wanted I sure would not be afraid to buy one...which is the only reason I don't still have those I bought.
Too much duplication of cartridges but it wasn't because they did not work and shoot well. Gotcha
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
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Quote Of The Month Award Winner...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Were the latest 70's that came out of Columbia SC that bad or did they just pull up and go to Portugal for the cheaper labor rates? Been discussed before the #1 reason the qc the stocks winchester was getting was bad they don't make their own stocks they outsourced it. From what i heard it was Boyd stocks but who knows how true that is. Anyhow because winchester was returning more stocks to the company making them they fell behind in production the whole time the model 70 was being made in South Carolina winchester was always behind production. So the head mofo at the Portugal plant same plant that makes the high end browning shotguns said we will make the stocks and move production over here. The Europeans don't really have that made in my country type pride like Americans do. So FN decided to shift production I think 2013 was the last year of sc made model 70's.
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
The thing is, how do we measure quality? Modern machines regardless of where the machine is situated in the world can produce highly accurate rifles as parts will be made to exact specs. On the other hand we can look at old Rigby rifles that was definitely not remembered for their accuracy (meaning that parts was not made that precise) but were hand made and is supposed to be what some see as top quality. Which of the two is better quality then?
Pieter
Today, I think a combination of both. Toss in basic design, materials, quality of parts,and construction (assembly in particular). I have seen a fair number of rifles that refused to shoot and function well due to poor assembly than many other issues....meaning they had enough wrong when they were put together that they did not shoot their best, or work as they should. As to function, Phil Shoemaker did a side bar article on this referring to it as the "Final 10%",or something like that, the finishing touches many rifles do not get that take them from just OK to great. Some of this is understandable since makers can't sell us rifles for a grand or so with all these final touches and hands on tweaking...some we have to do ourselves. We know all about it from the accuracy standpoint because we pay accuracy smiths to square up receivers to barrels, re turn action threads,bed stocks and other stuff like that. All this stuff costs money. Problem is a lot of us expect this with any factory rifle just because we pay $800 bucks for it and expect to get it all. Inexpensive rifles are more accurate today than they used to be but accuracy is half the story in a real quality rifle. Hard to get it all for little money. The flipside to that is the vaunted Kimber not a cheap rifle by any measure. But how often do we hear about the "tinkering" that is almost obligatory with Kimbers to make them accurate.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
Were the latest 70's that came out of Columbia SC that bad or did they just pull up and go to Portugal for the cheaper labor rates? Been discussed before the #1 reason the qc the stocks winchester was getting was bad they don't make their own stocks they outsourced it. From what i heard it was Boyd stocks but who knows how true that is. Anyhow because winchester was returning more stocks to the company making them they fell behind in production the whole time the model 70 was being made in South Carolina winchester was always behind production. So the head mofo at the Portugal plant same plant that makes the high end browning shotguns said we will make the stocks and move production over here. The Europeans don't really have that made in my country type pride like Americans do. So FN decided to shift production I think 2013 was the last year of sc made model 70's. That would make sense. I've seen a couple of Super Grades that clearly had the stock layout wrong. One was a .300 and it was a nice piece of wood, but likely to break at the wrist. I just bought an SC Super Grade in 7mm mag from a relative, and it is a very attractive rifle. I'm told it shoots well, too.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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FN is so big and I doubt that Portugal is any better then SC or for that matter any other place they choose to manufacture. Economies of scale or just plain downsizing. that large sucking sound continues. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-04/oh-portugal
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Gitem a Kimber IS a lot of money but to be honest if we are going to spend much more for a rifle I think we are better off building. I think you get better quality.
Despite the tinkering I think the Kimber platform is a lot of rifle for the money as a hunting gun. It is pretty unique in that price range given its weight and the quality of the stock, wood or synthetic.
Problems with it get a lot of ink on here which I guess distorts people's views of it. I have seen a pile of Rem 700's and Win M70's that needed some extensive tweaking as well.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,595
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,595 |
Were the latest 70's that came out of Columbia SC that bad or did they just pull up and go to Portugal for the cheaper labor rates? Oldelk: Damned if I know what's going on....I owned 4 and shot a 5th and they all shot great,functioned perfectly and were eager to please.
But this was within the first year or two of production in SC... maybe things have slipped I don't know. I blame the union labor...
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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